Bosh or Amare

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:35 pm
32 wrote:
xbay wrote:I'm going to be honest and say I rather keep Wright. Unless we're getting Dwight Howard or someone, I rather keep Brandan. The kid developing nicely. He plugs up the middle well, keeps opposing players away from the rim, and has a jump hook he can trust that goes too high to be blocked. I would rather have him stay than be dealt away. And the thing is... Nelson actually plays him more than 10 minutes. Although, he should be playing 21-30 minutes.

I'm with you brother. We should at least SEE what we have. In limited spurts, he's proven to be a ferocious help defender, a high-percentage scorer who gets buckets in bunches, and is developing a rebounding game nicely. Why give up on that after a bench-ridden rookie season and inconsistent 2nd-year time? The kid delivers when he's in.

I don't think we should deal Randolph either. Those 2, along with Biedrins, would be a helluva future frontline. Of course perhaps overseas fans who survive off box scores, beat writer articles, the occasional torrent, and this forum's gossip may beg to differ with me, but I've rarely met a Bay Area fan that watches games on the regular who hasn't seen something in Wright or Randolph. The kids are incredibly talented.


getting real sick of you knockin' over seas fans hey. It's fkn not easy following this team from the other side of the word
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:14 pm
Career Stats

Chris Bosh - 22.7 ppg 9.5 rebs .9 blks

Amare Stoudemire - 20.8 ppg 8.2 rebs 1.1 blks

the stats are very similar...

I would be happy with either one but Bosh is the better basketball player (imo)
Wish List

*New Owner and Management =D>
*Trade Monta
*Trade Maggette =D>
*Tank the season, get the top pick and draft Harrison Barnes
to be continued...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:16 pm
well, though i'm overatlantic fan here as well (how about crazy religious twist, wot !?) and i have watched almost all warrior games the last 2 seasons, it doesn't (how could this be?) make me feel different about trading wright, randolph or andris for amare or bosh. i would not like to part with any of them, especially when andris is one of my few favourite players on this team as well as anthony and wright (because of the thought about them becoming good/great and being young fresh true warrior virgins :mrgreen: ).
Last edited by martin on Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:17 pm
I doubt we make a trade guys, it doesn't seem likely no matter how much talk and how many rumors go around.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:17 pm
Quazza wrote:
32 wrote:
xbay wrote:I'm going to be honest and say I rather keep Wright. Unless we're getting Dwight Howard or someone, I rather keep Brandan. The kid developing nicely. He plugs up the middle well, keeps opposing players away from the rim, and has a jump hook he can trust that goes too high to be blocked. I would rather have him stay than be dealt away. And the thing is... Nelson actually plays him more than 10 minutes. Although, he should be playing 21-30 minutes.

I'm with you brother. We should at least SEE what we have. In limited spurts, he's proven to be a ferocious help defender, a high-percentage scorer who gets buckets in bunches, and is developing a rebounding game nicely. Why give up on that after a bench-ridden rookie season and inconsistent 2nd-year time? The kid delivers when he's in.

I don't think we should deal Randolph either. Those 2, along with Biedrins, would be a helluva future frontline. Of course perhaps overseas fans who survive off box scores, beat writer articles, the occasional torrent, and this forum's gossip may beg to differ with me, but I've rarely met a Bay Area fan that watches games on the regular who hasn't seen something in Wright or Randolph. The kids are incredibly talented.


getting real sick of you knockin' over seas fans hey. It's fkn not easy following this team from the other side of the word

I'll admit the shot was unprovoked (at least in this thread) and apologize for that. But if you'd like to challenge my statement regarding the overseas fan, I'm more than willing to engage you in a gentlemen's debate. No insults necessary, just good genuine argument. I'm not knocking any of your love for the team. The mere fact that you've signed up to a web forum is a testament to that, as it is for local fans as well. I'm simply exhausted of the stereotypical loud-mothed, uninformed transplant fan shooting their opinion off on issues they clearly are not properly informed about. I would say the same regarding local fans any day of the week (as I have before). The sheer legions of Belinelli, Jasikevicious, Biedrins, and Pietrus fanboys that overvalue players of the non-physical European style and knock NBA-quality, proven veterans like Jamal Crawford and Corey Maggette are tedious to deal with in the every. My quarrel is not with overseas followers, in a matter, its simply with the combination of heavy-opinionated, yet uninformed. I doubt we disagree on that.
Last edited by 32 on Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:20 pm
right
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:25 pm
Editted to be in classier taste. Please refer to the above.

And lets be frank about this, too. Several key board members have vacated this place over the infestation of such fans I detailed above. You may not care, but those who come to this place to be informed and engage in intellectual basketball conversation are all slowly losing their love for this forum. And I'm not talking about the average joe, I'm reffering to winners of several awards here, including 2 "most informed", a "rookie of the year", and the undisputed, 3rd-year winner of "quality poster". THOSE kinda guys. All being driven off by this pointless bickering, endless garbage posting, and dead-horse-beating on tired topics like Maggette/Crawford/Jackson. We GET IT already. You guys are pissed that we signed them. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that changes nothing and to not participate in any sort of discussion without repeating the tedious, exhausted points that have already been spammed in 90% of the new topics here is absolutely f*cking ridiculous. Do you fools REALLY think another bash-thread on your least favorite Warriors is going to entertain anybody besides the massive circle-jerking stroke-fest that always seems to include the same damn people over and over and over again...? This forum is f*cking dying because of that sh*t.

It is time to get over it and move the hell on.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:36 pm
so you mean an opinion that's different than yours?

To an extent I know what you mean: I have seen many a Euro fan on here talking up a player that may come from their home country. Patriotism, can often be blind

But you yourself often come across as someone who feels they know more about the Warriors, or even basketball itself, because you live in the Bay Area. This, I strongly disagree with. I don't think anyone's opinion carries more or less weight because of their post/zip code

*edit*
Your right, let's move on. But for the record i don't think it's fair to lay a sweeping generalisation on all OS posters. "Fools" or not
Last edited by Quazza on Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:39 pm
32 wrote:
Quazza wrote:
32 wrote:
xbay wrote:I'm going to be honest and say I rather keep Wright. Unless we're getting Dwight Howard or someone, I rather keep Brandan. The kid developing nicely. He plugs up the middle well, keeps opposing players away from the rim, and has a jump hook he can trust that goes too high to be blocked. I would rather have him stay than be dealt away. And the thing is... Nelson actually plays him more than 10 minutes. Although, he should be playing 21-30 minutes.

I'm with you brother. We should at least SEE what we have. In limited spurts, he's proven to be a ferocious help defender, a high-percentage scorer who gets buckets in bunches, and is developing a rebounding game nicely. Why give up on that after a bench-ridden rookie season and inconsistent 2nd-year time? The kid delivers when he's in.

I don't think we should deal Randolph either. Those 2, along with Biedrins, would be a helluva future frontline. Of course perhaps overseas fans who survive off box scores, beat writer articles, the occasional torrent, and this forum's gossip may beg to differ with me, but I've rarely met a Bay Area fan that watches games on the regular who hasn't seen something in Wright or Randolph. The kids are incredibly talented.


getting real sick of you knockin' over seas fans hey. It's fkn not easy following this team from the other side of the word

I'll admit the shot was unprovoked (at least in this thread) and apologize for that. But if you'd like to challenge my statement regarding the overseas fan, I'm more than willing to engage you in a gentlemen's debate. No insults necessary, just good genuine argument. I'm not knocking any of your love for the team. The mere fact that you've signed up to a web forum is a testament to that, as it is for local fans as well. I'm simply exhausted of the stereotypical loud-mothed, uninformed transplant fan shooting their opinion off on issues they clearly are not properly informed about. I would say the same regarding local fans any day of the week (as I have before). The sheer legions of Belinelli, Jasikevicious, Biedrins, and Pietrus fanboys that overvalue players of the non-physical European style and knock NBA-quality, proven veterans like Jamal Crawford and Corey Maggette are tedious to deal with in the every. My quarrel is not with overseas followers, in a matter, its simply with the combination of heavy-opinionated, yet uninformed. I doubt we disagree on that.

i love (at least playing) physical basketball and i have to notice that not all europeans are non-physical type players. i wouldn't call biedrins, rony, sabonis or marciulionis non-physical players. it hink both (especially) crawford and mags are rather soft players, especially on defense. so, while i don't see your logic here (anti-european tension, perhaps?), i must agree, that ignorance is not the best thing, but not he worst regarding basketball issues (which many people are doomed/blessed to be emotianally connected with, rather than analytically).
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:42 pm
Quazza wrote:
32 wrote:
xbay wrote:I'm going to be honest and say I rather keep Wright. Unless we're getting Dwight Howard or someone, I rather keep Brandan. The kid developing nicely. He plugs up the middle well, keeps opposing players away from the rim, and has a jump hook he can trust that goes too high to be blocked. I would rather have him stay than be dealt away. And the thing is... Nelson actually plays him more than 10 minutes. Although, he should be playing 21-30 minutes.

I'm with you brother. We should at least SEE what we have. In limited spurts, he's proven to be a ferocious help defender, a high-percentage scorer who gets buckets in bunches, and is developing a rebounding game nicely. Why give up on that after a bench-ridden rookie season and inconsistent 2nd-year time? The kid delivers when he's in.

I don't think we should deal Randolph either. Those 2, along with Biedrins, would be a helluva future frontline. Of course perhaps overseas fans who survive off box scores, beat writer articles, the occasional torrent, and this forum's gossip may beg to differ with me, but I've rarely met a Bay Area fan that watches games on the regular who hasn't seen something in Wright or Randolph. The kids are incredibly talented.


getting real sick of you knockin' over seas fans hey. It's fkn not easy following this team from the other side of the word



He's been saying shiit like that for years.

#32, you are starting up your - I know more than anyone else, especially those who have a different opinion of me - talk again.

Many of us have differing views, none of us need to slander others, even point them out rather harshly and distastefully. This is a Warriors forum and all have been invited, as long as they don't cause trouble.


I don't care what anybody thinks about me being overseas, none of anyone's opinion on that means fukin anything. I'm pretty sure the rest of my fellow overseas Warriors fans agree with me. Personally, I do research on everything and I post from what I've found out, be it watching games and what others, be them fans or article writers, say.

I'll take the opinion of the many over the opinion of the one, especially one that knocks others opinions so much
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:50 pm
Don't talk to me migya. I don't respect or value a word you say. Your credibility is dog sh*t to me and has been for years. Your supporters have only ever been the sympathetic overseas crowd that I'm currently trying to have a level discussion with. You interjecting to stir the pot helps nothing. I'm tired of you running your mouth on me every couple of months with absolutely nothing you can say to better this place. You don't ever admit you're wrong. You don't ever speak with an open mind or a level head. You're a racist, you're a sexist, you're a drama-setter, you were a disgrace as a mod, you're a terrible representation of this place, and I'm done being cordial with you. Get the hell out of my business and quit sticking your big ass nose wherever I make a post. New rule: you don't talk to me, I don't talk to you. Because you're a child, I realize you'll respond to this post in true sophomoric, typical-migya fashion. That's fine. After you get your parting shot in the last word I leave you, I'm going to leave it at that and I expect you to do the same. I got nothing to say to you.

Now, back to the discussion we were trying to have like gentlemen:

Quazza wrote:so you mean an opinion that's different than yours?

No, I mean an opinion that doesn't take the facts into consideration. Myself and other supporters of this team are more than happy to admit the shortcomings Jamal Crawford and Corey Maggette display on defense. We'll readily admit their faults without hesitation. The problem is, the haters don't share the same philosophy. Anytime you claim the cancer of this team are the two gentlemen leading your team in scoring, you have a problem with comprehension. Period. You can claim that Maggette and/or Crawford aren't the best options, but to pretend that this team is better off when those guys aren't playing is just plain ignorant. There's no excuse for that.

Quazza wrote:To an extent I know what you mean: I have seen many a Euro fan on here talking up a player that may come from their home country. Patriotism, can often be blind

But you yourself often come across as someone who feels they know more about the Warriors, or even basketball itself, because you live in the Bay Area. This, I strongly disagree with. I don't think anyone's opinion carries more or less weight because of their post/zip code

I don't either. I'll point to TMC as a surefire example of that. The man clearly knows what he's talking about. Even throughout his endless lambastings of Jamal Crawford, he has admitted that his hatred for Jamal is likened to my hatred for Nick Van Exel; it goes beyond basketball and creates an undeniable bias. TMC, in essence, discounted his own opinion on Crawford through a self admission of an inherant agenda. Its commendable and does absolute wonders for his credibility because it makes him that much more honest when it comes to other players. Unfortunately, this is not shared by the VAST majority of our non-American posters here. I'm not labeling anybody specifically, just telling it like it is.

As far as knowing the Warriors better than an overseas user, how can that even be argued? I don't have to download games; I catch them as they're being played. Every time. I don't need to search online for articles or box scores or updates; I get them every day in the newspaper. I don't need to search far and wide to find another human being that follows the same team I do; often times, my best conversation starter at work or in class pertains to this team. I am saturated in the essence of this team in a very close way and there's no substitution for the type of exposure a local fan gets compared to an overseas one. I go to the games in person. I can attend shoot arounds and open gyms and any meet-random-Warrior-in-person events. How can you claim that an overseas fan can possibly have the same first-hand information as a local fan?

Quazza wrote:*edit*
Your right, let's move on. But for the record i don't think it's fair to lay a sweeping generalisation on all OS posters. "Fools" or not

Duely noted. As stated above, I'm simply calling it as I see it.

martin wrote:i love (at least playing) physical basketball and i have to notice that not all europeans are non-physical type players. i wouldn't call biedrins, rony, sabonis or marciulionis non-physical players. it hink both (especially) crawford and mags are rather soft players, especially on defense. so, while i don't see your logic here (anti-european tension, perhaps?), i must agree, that ignorance is not the best thing, but not he worst regarding basketball issues (which many people are doomed/blessed to be emotianally connected with, rather than analytically).

But even with the examples you stated, are you denying that the vast majority of European players to have infiltrated the NBA are physical? Its so prevelant, its become an absolute stereotype. I'm not sure how long you've been watching (not an insult, an honest lead-in), but the NBA did not have flopping before the European influx. There were no 7-footers like Pau Gasol, Mehmet Okur, Vlade Divac, or Dirk Nowitski taking charges from guys half their size. Sure, you can throw me the once-in-a-blue-moon example like Brad Miller, but that doesn't change the fact that the majority of American-born NBA players do not flop, while the majority of European (or, to be fair, soccer-emphasized-countries) do. Any country with a heavy soccer following seems to produce players that emulate the short-shorts wearing kickers that flail and squeal in attempts to draw red cards. That kind of BS never happened before Stern took the game global. I feel as though that aspect is ruining basketball and I hold it against every player that perpetuates it. And, yes, that includes Corey Maggette. I take no joy out of watching a guy scream and kick in order to fool the referees into blowing their whistles.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:06 am
32 wrote:Don't talk to me migya. I don't respect or value a word you say. Your credibility is dog sh*t to me and has been for years. Your supporters have only ever been the sympathetic overseas crowd that I'm currently trying to have a level discussion with. You interjecting to stir the pot helps nothing. I'm tired of you running your mouth on me every couple of months with absolutely nothing you can say to better this place. You don't ever admit you're wrong. You don't ever speak with an open mind or a level head. You're a racist, you're a sexist, you're a drama-setter, you were a disgrace as a mod, you're a terrible representation of this place, and I'm done being cordial with you. Get the hell out of my business and quit sticking your big ass nose wherever I make a post. New rule: you don't talk to me, I don't talk to you. Because you're a child, I realize you'll respond to this post in true sophomoric, typical-migya fashion. That's fine. After you get your parting shot in the last word I leave you, I'm going to leave it at that and I expect you to do the same. I got nothing to say to you.



I'll let the mods and hobbes deal with this.



Mods - The same thing is propping up, please deal with it, it has occurred enough times to be dealt with
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:51 am
32 wrote:Don't talk to me migya. I don't respect or value a word you say. Your credibility is dog sh*t to me and has been for years. Your supporters have only ever been the sympathetic overseas crowd that I'm currently trying to have a level discussion with. You interjecting to stir the pot helps nothing. I'm tired of you running your mouth on me every couple of months with absolutely nothing you can say to better this place. You don't ever admit you're wrong. You don't ever speak with an open mind or a level head. You're a racist, you're a sexist, you're a drama-setter, you were a disgrace as a mod, you're a terrible representation of this place, and I'm done being cordial with you. Get the hell out of my business and quit sticking your big ass nose wherever I make a post. New rule: you don't talk to me, I don't talk to you. Because you're a child, I realize you'll respond to this post in true sophomoric, typical-migya fashion. That's fine. After you get your parting shot in the last word I leave you, I'm going to leave it at that and I expect you to do the same. I got nothing to say to you.

Now, back to the discussion we were trying to have like gentlemen:

Quazza wrote:so you mean an opinion that's different than yours?

No, I mean an opinion that doesn't take the facts into consideration. Myself and other supporters of this team are more than happy to admit the shortcomings Jamal Crawford and Corey Maggette display on defense. We'll readily admit their faults without hesitation. The problem is, the haters don't share the same philosophy. Anytime you claim the cancer of this team are the two gentlemen leading your team in scoring, you have a problem with comprehension. Period. You can claim that Maggette and/or Crawford aren't the best options, but to pretend that this team is better off when those guys aren't playing is just plain ignorant. There's no excuse for that.

Quazza wrote:To an extent I know what you mean: I have seen many a Euro fan on here talking up a player that may come from their home country. Patriotism, can often be blind

But you yourself often come across as someone who feels they know more about the Warriors, or even basketball itself, because you live in the Bay Area. This, I strongly disagree with. I don't think anyone's opinion carries more or less weight because of their post/zip code

I don't either. I'll point to TMC as a surefire example of that. The man clearly knows what he's talking about. Even throughout his endless lambastings of Jamal Crawford, he has admitted that his hatred for Jamal is likened to my hatred for Nick Van Exel; it goes beyond basketball and creates an undeniable bias. TMC, in essence, discounted his own opinion on Crawford through a self admission of an inherant agenda. Its commendable and does absolute wonders for his credibility because it makes him that much more honest when it comes to other players. Unfortunately, this is not shared by the VAST majority of our non-American posters here. I'm not labeling anybody specifically, just telling it like it is.

As far as knowing the Warriors better than an overseas user, how can that even be argued? I don't have to download games; I catch them as they're being played. Every time. I don't need to search online for articles or box scores or updates; I get them every day in the newspaper. I don't need to search far and wide to find another human being that follows the same team I do; often times, my best conversation starter at work or in class pertains to this team. I am saturated in the essence of this team in a very close way and there's no substitution for the type of exposure a local fan gets compared to an overseas one. I go to the games in person. I can attend shoot arounds and open gyms and any meet-random-Warrior-in-person events. How can you claim that an overseas fan can possibly have the same first-hand information as a local fan?


at some point, we see the same game. You see it first so u understand it better? U read the papers. I wake up, and check on line and read those same articles? Cos yours is printed in black and white, it's better?

I'm EXTREMELY envious of you in that you can go to games, shoot arounds etc. I'd kill to be able to do that. But me? I flew across the other side of the world just to catch ONE game.

And how does hanging around other Warriors fans improve your knowledge of the team? If there's a group of 5 Warriors fans saying Jackson average's a triple double, as opposed to one lone fan in Algeria saying he doesn't, are they right?

Yes there's definitely things we miss out on Of that there is simply no doubt. But there just also might be some things we experience with the Warriors, that you'll never get to go through yourself

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:32 am
32 wrote:
martin wrote:i love (at least playing) physical basketball and i have to notice that not all europeans are non-physical type players. i wouldn't call biedrins, rony, sabonis or marciulionis non-physical players. it hink both (especially) crawford and mags are rather soft players, especially on defense. so, while i don't see your logic here (anti-european tension, perhaps?), i must agree, that ignorance is not the best thing, but not he worst regarding basketball issues (which many people are doomed/blessed to be emotianally connected with, rather than analytically).

But even with the examples you stated, are you denying that the vast majority of European players to have infiltrated the NBA are physical? Its so prevelant, its become an absolute stereotype. I'm not sure how long you've been watching (not an insult, an honest lead-in), but the NBA did not have flopping before the European influx. There were no 7-footers like Pau Gasol, Mehmet Okur, Vlade Divac, or Dirk Nowitski taking charges from guys half their size. Sure, you can throw me the once-in-a-blue-moon example like Brad Miller, but that doesn't change the fact that the majority of American-born NBA players do not flop, while the majority of European (or, to be fair, soccer-emphasized-countries) do. Any country with a heavy soccer following seems to produce players that emulate the short-shorts wearing kickers that flail and squeal in attempts to draw red cards. That kind of BS never happened before Stern took the game global. I feel as though that aspect is ruining basketball and I hold it against every player that perpetuates it. And, yes, that includes Corey Maggette. I take no joy out of watching a guy scream and kick in order to fool the referees into blowing their whistles.

i don't agree with pinning down flopping to football (this is an old english game and is called like that in the country of its origin (from which the american football origined), soccer is a fake name) following countries. you couldn't call gordon, deng, azubuike floppers? they come from england, the country that follows football most. you couldn't call barbosa, varejao or nene floppers, and they come from the best football playing country in brasil. you can call ginobili flopper, but he comes, albeit from football country, not from europe. so, i'd think there's not enough evidence to say that: a) soccer following countries produce 'floppers and b) europe produce floppers, in a strict inference.
most of europeans that flop are way inferior physically to their opponents in the nba. they are weaker. gasol is a soft player and has not good legs. he may fall down in an even place. i saw that in olympics semifinal game against lithuania. ditto for nowitzski, who is heavy, but not strong and not quick. the biggest amount of big european players are/were slower, less powerfull and had worse legs than their american rivals. as i told in another thread, this comes down to different physical outfit of mentioned players. this is the defense/method/trick of physically weaker player.
now what you should call a flop is when obviously more/equally physically gifted men can't hold their ground. this is flop. maggete and baron were very good at it. having bodies of bodybuilders, but acting like pussies.
so, no, it's not strictly an american vs. european thing in a sense of cultural difference, though there might be some factors due to this.
even more, 'floping' is a metaphorical name for 'drawing offensive fouls', which is a part of basketball game. i'm not saying, that this makes basketball a nicer game, it makes it more tricky and mental. some may hate this part of it and try to rationalize their dislike. some may accept it as a change and go on from there.
lastly in football drawing a foul is much more important, because it may change the game in one moment - a penalty. also, it's a risky thing, because if you fall you lose the ball and kill attack, which might have ended in goal. plus you risk yellow card for acting. in football falling down is very common because it's a faster game and more physical than basketball. so, it makes a little difference, when you think of guy who fell down because his feet got mixed up and lost control, and the one, who falls down because he has a body hitting him.
ok, now, it's been a long one, and i must finish saying that pinning down flop as some sort of invalid thing to europeans and soccer playing countries is rather emotional and not sufficient enough to make a strict point. in reality, there are tons of factors why 'flop' has become norm and singling out just one of them is not doing any justice.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:40 am
i cant believe you just said varejao isn't a flopper.
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