Tim Hardaway - Homophobe

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:08 pm
Former NBA All-Star Tim Hardaway on Wednesday unleashed what may be the most homophobic series of comments ever uttered publicly by a major pro-sports figure. On Miami's 790 The Ticket, host Dan Le Batard asked Hardaway about the revelation by former NBA player John Amaechi that he is gay.

The Miami Herald carried a transcript of the interview that included this exchange:

Le Batard: "How do you deal with a gay teammate?"
Hardaway: "First of all I wouldn't want him on my team. And second of all, if he was on my team, you know, I would really distance myself from him because, uh, I don't think that is right. I don't think that he should be in the locker room while we are in the locker room, and it's just a whole lot of other things and I wouldn't even be a part of that. But stuff like that is going on and there's a lot of other people I hear that are like that and still in the closet and don't want to come out of the closet, but you know I just leave that alone."

Later in the interview:

Le Batard: "You know what you are saying there is flatly homophobic? It's bigotry?"
Hardaway: "Well, you know I hate gay people, so I let it be known. I don't like gay people and I don't like to be around gay people. I am homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States. So yeah, I don't like it.''

These comments are the complete antithesis of the tenor of most of the comments by present and former NBA personalities who have overwhelmingly been positive about Amaechi's declaration that he is gay.

Hardaway was drafted by the Golden State Warriors in 1989; He retired while with the Indiana Pacers in 2003. He also played on the gold-medal U.S. Olympic basketball team in 2000. Hardaway is presently the head coach of the American Basketball Association's Florida Pit Bulls.

In the end, Hardaway's comments can be a very good thing for the discussion started last week when it was revealed that Amaechi would announce he is gay. Hardaway's comments were so negative, so hateful, and so vicious that the response from the media and others in sports should be overwhelmingly critical of the former NBA All-Star.

ouch.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:16 am
Thanks, pest. Disturbing to see such hate.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:43 am
coltraning wrote:Thanks, pest. Disturbing to see such hate.


Well, at least he's being honest. There are an awful lot of people that feel the same way without ever saying so. That's way worse that Timmy's words (that's not to say I support what he said, tho. The fact that he's being honest doesn't mean he's right).
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:21 am
TMC wrote:Well, at least he's being honest. There are an awful lot of people that feel the same way without ever saying so. That's way worse that Timmy's words (that's not to say I support what he said, tho. The fact that he's being honest doesn't mean he's right).

I agree.

Hardaway's honestly puts a very real dimension on the table: the teammate's perspective. Now, you can think whatever you want about gay people. Right now, God knows there are legions of people on both sides of the issue. But I think, through the slander, Hardaway made a (single) valid point.

One of the issues he said he'd be uncomfortable with, I can sympathize. The locker room is definately the situation I'd be most uncomfortable with. And the fact that some players may not be 'out' yet almost seems wrong. It's like changing in a locker room full of women. Sure, it's great for us... but how would those ladies feel with a single, straight man dressing among them. It's an issue of personal space; I know, for sure, that I wouldn't be comfortable dressing next to a homosexual. I don't believe I'd want him off the team (at least, not for being gay), I wouldn't crack off vicious quotes in the media talking about how I hate him, and I wouldn't make a huge deal out of it... but I'd definately want a different locker. And I don't think that's unreasonable. And it sounded like Tim's only gripe, from what I could tell.

Beneath the ignorant slander, I think Hardaway's fear is partly justified because I can sympathize with the situation. But he's still in the wrong for being such a biggot.





























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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:26 am
I can see what you're saying, but I get the feeling that a good while from now homphobia is going to be looked back upon in the same light that we currently view racism - it is a hate because they are different situation. It is okay to feel uncomfortable but it's not like every gay guy out there is trying their hardest to go out an hook up with everyone on the team. I think that is probably the most common misconception of homosexuality. Think about it - if you were on a coed softball team would you feel uncomfortable playing with other girls? Would you be trying to nail every girl on the team (remember - these are softball girls)? No. Obviously this situation doesn't translate due to its nature but the same oncpets can be applied.

However he does at least voice an opinion that is valid, although muddled through completely ignorant statements. It's not like this is an issue that will easily be waded through but does garner some amount of rumination.

Either way he won't need to be punished by the league or anything. He pretty much dug himself a media grave with those comments and deservedly so.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:14 pm
The only reason I believe the locker room example is valid is because it pertains to sex, which is a very sensitive issue to most people. Racism, at it's very nature, has nothing to do with sex. Homosexuality is a sexual preference, so it's a very different situation for most people.

Even though homosexuals are most likely not going to be hitting on other players in the locker room, it's still uncomfortable.

You could use the same example about heterosexual players; even though most men won't be trying to hit on girls in the locker room or bathroom or whatever other segregated area that guys and girls have... the fact that, at it's very nature, it's possible makes it uncomfortable.

I don't think it's unreasonable to want to be removed from the situation. Some might consider it wrong to make the gay person change in a different environment, but I don't think it's wrong if somebody (who knows there's a gay person in the locker room) excuses himself from the situation and changes clothes elsewhere.

I know, for sure, had I known there was a homosexual on my high school football team (he came out of the closet after quitting the team), I would have definately changed elsewhere (even if there wasn't the SLIGHTEST chance that he was attracted to me). It would just make me uncomfortable... and I'm sure the same can be said for Hardaway.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:00 pm
TMC wrote:
coltraning wrote:Thanks, pest. Disturbing to see such hate.


Well, at least he's being honest. There are an awful lot of people that feel the same way without ever saying so. That's way worse that Timmy's words (that's not to say I support what he said, tho. The fact that he's being honest doesn't mean he's right).

Yeah, it is good to get those hateful thoughts out there. Truth is, homophobia is aptly named. It really is a fear of "catching" gayness and is most common among young men insecure in their own sexuality. There used to be the same arguments made against letting blacks play or change with whites. About the same as catching blue eyes if you have brown eyes. I see far less homophobia among my son's generation than among mine. Sports is the last bastion of hard core fear of gays, so it will take some prominent current player coming out to change the fears. As for the locker room, no gay person is going to try and hit on someone in a locker room. They would get jumped and thrashed so quickly, not to mention being shunned and they know that.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:21 pm
coltraning wrote:I see far less homophobia among my son's generation than among mine.


I don't know about that. You're probably right, but I don't think we have advanced enough... I really believe it will develop the same way racism has done (as Thunder said), but it will take time. No matter what people say, still there's too much... disdain towards it.

And I think that's the natural way of things. We cannot expect to have a perfectly tolerant society from one day to the next. It will take time...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:28 pm
TMC wrote:
coltraning wrote:I see far less homophobia among my son's generation than among mine.


I don't know about that. You're probably right, but I don't think we have advanced enough... I really believe it will develop the same way racism has done (as Thunder said), but it will take time. No matter what people say, still there's too much... disdain towards it.

And I think that's the natural way of things. We cannot expect to have a perfectly tolerant society from one day to the next. It will take time...

no, progress is slow and fitful, but it is inexorable...every poll shows that the overwhelming majority of 18-30 year olds could give a f**k about gay marriage, whereas majorities of 70 year olds are still against it. The haters are dying out, and 30 years from now expressions like Hardaway's will seem as unacceptable as racism and smoking in front of your children does now hell -at one point in time, not so long ago, they had spittoons in all the restaurants, so it was considered acceptable to hawk a loogie as you chowed on your fine dining. The only constant is change.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:47 pm
Exactly. Change is painfully slow. Just look at racism - it's been several decades since institutional racism but it is still very real today.

The problem isn't that younger generations aren't more progressive, Colt's numbers show that. It is that we don't do anything with our ideals. The demographic that is most welcoming to progressive thinking is the demographic that votes the least. The flipside is elder bible thumpers do nothing but vote.

I mean, what Hardaway said is inexcuseable and ignorant but you can't blame his stance solely on him. He is, like all of us, a product of the society around him. Hardaway hates on a group because a large portion of Americans hate on that same group. I hope this issue blows up so we'll have to examine exactly why America is so homophobic.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:03 pm
David Stern's response to Hardaway's comments...

The NBA banished Tim Hardaway from All-Star weekend in Las Vegas because of his anti-gay remarks. Hardaway, who played in five All-Star games during the 1990s, was already in Las Vegas and scheduled to make a series of public appearances this week on behalf of the league. But after saying, "I hate gay people" during a radio interview, commissioner David Stern stepped in.

"It is inappropriate for him to be representing us given the disparity between his views and ours," Stern said in a statement Thursday.

Hardaway apologized for his comments, which came a week after John Amaechi became the first former NBA player to say he was gay.

"As an African-American, I know all too well the negative thoughts and feelings hatred and bigotry cause," Hardaway said Thursday in a statement issued by his agent. "I regret and apologize for the statements that I made that have certainly caused the same kinds of feelings and reactions.

"I especially apologize to my fans, friends and family in Miami and Chicago. I am committed to examining my feelings and will recognize, appreciate and respect the differences among people in our society," he said. "I regret any embarrassment I have caused the league on the eve of one of their greatest annual events."

Hardaway represented the NBA in Las Vegas this week at a Habitat for Humanity event and a fitness promotion. The former U.S. Olympian was originally scheduled to be an assistant coach at a wheelchair game Thursday night and later appear at the fan-oriented Jam Session.

"I don't need Tim's comments to realize there's a problem," Amaechi told The Associated Press in a phone interview earlier in the day. "People said that I should just shut up and go away _ now they have to rethink that."

On a Miami radio show Wednesday, Hardaway was asked how he would interact with a gay teammate.

"First of all, I wouldn't want him on my team," the former Miami Heat star said. "And second of all, if he was on my team, I would, you know, really distance myself from him because, uh, I don't think that is right. I don't think he should be in the locker room while we are in the locker room."

When show host Dan Le Batard told Hardaway those comments were "flatly homophobic" and "bigotry," the player continued.

"You know, I hate gay people, so I let it be known. I don't like gay people and I don't like to be around gay people," he said. "I'm homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States."

Hardaway also said if he did find out that a teammate was gay, he would ask for the player to be removed from the team.

"Something has to give," Hardaway said. "If you have 12 other ballplayers in your locker room that's upset and can't concentrate and always worried about him in the locker room or on the court or whatever, it's going to be hard for your teammates to win and accept him as a teammate."

Later that night, Hardaway apologized during a telephone interview with WSVN-TV in Miami.

"Yes, I regret it. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said I hate gay people or anything like that," he said. "That was my mistake."

Two major gay and lesbian groups denounced Hardaway's remarks.

"Hardaway's comments are vile, repulsive, and indicative of the climate of ignorance, hostility and prejudice that continues to pervade sports culture," said Neil Giuliano, president of the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. "And by apologizing not for his bigotry, but rather for giving voice to it, he's reminding us that this ugly display is only the tip of a very large iceberg."

Said Matt Foreman, president of the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force: "Hardaway is a hero to thousands of young people. And that's what makes his comments so troubling. Sadly, his words simply put the pervasive homophobia in the NBA on the table."

Amaechi, who detailed his life in his recent autobiography "Man in the Middle," hoped his coming out would be a catalyst for intelligent discourse.

"His words pollute the atmosphere," Amaechi said. "It creates an atmosphere that allows young gays and lesbians to be harassed in school, creates an atmosphere where in 33 states you can lose your job, and where anti-gay and lesbian issues are used for political gain. It's an atmosphere that hurts all of us, not just gay people."

Amaechi taped a spot Thursday for PBS' gay and lesbian program "In the Life." He said the anti-gay sentiment remains despite Hardaway's apology.

"It's vitriolic, and may be exactly what he feels," he said. "Whether he's honest or not doesn't inoculate us from his words. It's not progress to hear hateful words."


I love Hardaway as a player, but even though he apologized, this is a serious matter. You can't be blurting out such comments. Look what happened to Jim Mora Jr. It's just real sad to see such a great guy come out and say this. He apologized yeah, but it just doesn't seem enough.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:48 am
xbaywarrior wrote:I love Hardaway as a player, but even though he apologized, this is a serious matter. You can't be blurting out such comments. Look what happened to Jim Mora Jr. It's just real sad to see such a great guy come out and say this. He apologized yeah, but it just doesn't seem enough.


Well, I don't know what else could he do... I mean, the damage is already done, and the only thing he can do is apologize.




btw, what I hate is the fact that Amaechi waited till his career was over to write a book telling his story. And nobody knows anything about the contents till now, just a few weeks before the book hits the shelves.

Sounds like a commercial ploy to make money (because that's what it is). Now it goes from a book nobody, NOBODY would buy (maybe not even his relatives) to a book everybody will want to read...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:47 am
First off, let me say I totally agree with TMC that this new book seems pretty lame. I mean, I understand the guy has a story to tell, and he obviously deserves to tell it, but the way it's gone down has been kind of lame. I mean, I definitely hadn't heard of the the guy before he came out and what not. But besides that, peoples' response to this whole matter of gay athletes, even on this board, has been somewhat disturbing.

The main thing that people who obviously have an inherent problem with gay people but don't want to say it point out is 'it's fine, but I just wouldn't want to share the locker room with them. I wouldn't feel comfortable'. Is this a valid concern? Sure. Is it really based on anything other than the fear of the unknown or something different? No. When you play on a sports team, you gain trust in your teammates. When you play together, there has to be that trust there, first and foremost. That's what playing a team sport at a high level is all about. If you're a running back, you have to have trust that your guards are going to pull and throw a lead block so you don't get killed by the defensive end. As a baseball player you have to trust your teammates to relay the correct signs to you, and for the basecoaches to stop or wave you in accordingly. In basketball, you have to trust everyone knows the plays, and how each other player is going to run them.

Now let's say someone on a good sports team decides to tell people he's gay. What exactly has changed, here? I just don't really understand what the big deal is. It's almost comical to me how much of a deal people make about it. Who gives a ****? If this guy was your teammate, first and foremost, what makes you think he'll want to be anything but that, now that he's revelaed he's gay? If you had the trust in him before, does him being gay negate that trust? If it does, the problem does not lie with him. Are people worried about getting raped, or come on to by a gay teammate? That is perhaps the most ridiculous, completely-borne-out-of-fear thing I've ever heard. NO gay person on a sports team would EVER try to do anything of the sort. They know what's at stake. If they tried anything like that, they know what would happen to them. And the vast majority of them probably would not want anything to do with their teammates, anyways. I read an article about a gay football player at a college in St. Louis who came out, and he said he could never look at his teammates sexually, because, as teammates first and foremost, they're like his brothers, like family. The article also pointed out something else about the locker room issue - in their locker room, the gay player seems to feel the most uncomfortable. As he should. His teammates just don't care, because they accept and TRUST him as a teammate. It's not even an issue for them. You put a naked girl in a room with a bunch of guys, and who feels uncomfortable? I just can't imagine what it would feel like to be so insecure about homosexuality that I would feel uncomfortable if ONE gay guy was changing clothes or showering next to me after practice. Unfortunately, that seems to be the pervasive sentiment in American males today.

We're talking about gay people in sports. It's not like anyone's being asked to take a shower as the only stright guy in the bathroom over at 'Moby Dick' on Castro. Gay guys who play sports are not the same kind of people that dress up in leather every night and go out in San Francisco.

It's just sad that after all the prejudices this country has had towards all sorts of minorities, there's yet another one that people in some marginalized group have to deal with. Tim Hardaway is a fool. Aside from saying some really hateful things, he totally fucked himself career/endorsement-wise. I'll always like him as a player and a Warrior, but it's deinitely harder for me to outright like him as I did before he said this crap. I can't believe anyone is trying to justify that what he said has any merit (aside form the fact that he actually told the truth). Unfortunately, what he said is probably more or less how a lot of the NBA (and country for that matter) truly feels about homosexuality.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:49 am
baytobrooklyn wrote:First off, let me say I totally agree with TMC that this new book seems pretty lame. I mean, I understand the guy has a story to tell, and he obviously deserves to tell it, but the way it's gone down has been kind of lame. I mean, I definitely hadn't heard of the the guy before he came out and what not. But besides that, peoples' response to this whole matter of gay athletes, even on this board, has been somewhat disturbing.

The main thing that people who obviously have an inherent problem with gay people but don't want to say it point out is 'it's fine, but I just wouldn't want to share the locker room with them. I wouldn't feel comfortable'. Is this a valid concern? Sure. Is it really based on anything other than the fear of the unknown or something different? No. When you play on a sports team, you gain trust in your teammates. When you play together, there has to be that trust there, first and foremost. That's what playing a team sport at a high level is all about. If you're a running back, you have to have trust that your guards are going to pull and throw a lead block so you don't get killed by the defensive end. As a baseball player you have to trust your teammates to relay the correct signs to you, and for the basecoaches to stop or wave you in accordingly. In basketball, you have to trust everyone knows the plays, and how each other player is going to run them.

Now let's say someone on a good sports team decides to tell people he's gay. What exactly has changed, here? I just don't really understand what the big deal is. It's almost comical to me how much of a deal people make about it. Who gives a ****? If this guy was your teammate, first and foremost, what makes you think he'll want to be anything but that, now that he's revelaed he's gay? If you had the trust in him before, does him being gay negate that trust? If it does, the problem does not lie with him. Are people worried about getting raped, or come on to by a gay teammate? That is perhaps the most ridiculous, completely-borne-out-of-fear thing I've ever heard. NO gay person on a sports team would EVER try to do anything of the sort. They know what's at stake. If they tried anything like that, they know what would happen to them. And the vast majority of them probably would not want anything to do with their teammates, anyways. I read an article about a gay football player at a college in St. Louis who came out, and he said he could never look at his teammates sexually, because, as teammates first and foremost, they're like his brothers, like family. The article also pointed out something else about the locker room issue - in their locker room, the gay player seems to feel the most uncomfortable. As he should. His teammates just don't care, because they accept and TRUST him as a teammate. It's not even an issue for them. You put a naked girl in a room with a bunch of guys, and who feels uncomfortable? I just can't imagine what it would feel like to be so insecure about homosexuality that I would feel uncomfortable if ONE gay guy was changing clothes or showering next to me after practice. Unfortunately, that seems to be the pervasive sentiment in American males today.

We're talking about gay people in sports. It's not like anyone's being asked to take a shower as the only stright guy in the bathroom over at 'Moby Dick' on Castro. Gay guys who play sports are not the same kind of people that dress up in leather every night and go out in San Francisco.

It's just sad that after all the prejudices this country has had towards all sorts of minorities, there's yet another one that people in some marginalized group have to deal with. Tim Hardaway is a fool. Aside from saying some really hateful things, he totally fucked himself career/endorsement-wise. I'll always like him as a player and a Warrior, but it's deinitely harder for me to outright like him as I did before he said this crap. I can't believe anyone is trying to justify that what he said has any merit (aside form the fact that he actually told the truth). Unfortunately, what he said is probably more or less how a lot of the NBA (and country for that matter) truly feels about homosexuality.

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great post, brooklyn. you know what I think is cool? On an all guy, basically girl-crazy sports forum (and I am speaking as a prime contributor to the cheerleaders thread), there is no one defending what he said. That is a huge sea change from 30 years ago if this had come up. What Hardaway said is what many people think, but the times they are a changin'
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:06 pm
*First of all, before I retort, I just wanna say that you guys don't have to keep beating around the damn bush. Quit saying, "people who don't want gays in the locker room" and just address me straight out. It's not a big deal. OK, now that that's out of the way...*

Nobody here is biggoted or ignorant. Nobody has stated that being gay is wrong.

However, I have a problem with gay people being in a dressing room with me. I'm not afraid they'd rape me, I don't believe they'd come onto me, I don't even think they'd stare or anything like that. It's simply the principle of the matter.

If you're a homosexual male, you have sex with men. +90% of the time, sex is a product of attraction. One could argue, more often than not in this society, that said attraction is physical. Therefore, in conclusion, a gay man is capable of being turned on by the sight of another man being naked (or close to naked), whereas a heterosexual male is not.

However unlikely, it is still a very real possibility that somebody like me would prefer to avoid. Yes, my girlfriend is loyal to me. No, I don't mind when she drinks. But does the thought of her getting plastered at a party with a bunch of guys bother me? Yes. It does. And I don't think that makes me a bad guy. I would just prefer that she doesn't put herself in those types of situations. More often than not, nothing's going to happen to her. But does that mean the problem disappears?

If we discounted problems because they were "unlikely", young children would talk openly to strangers, families could go on huge, 5-hour drives away from home without the aid of a cell phone, and young women wouldn't feel the least bit worried going to an ATM at 2 in the morning. Thankfully, most sane people understand that (even though a problem can be barely possible), the consequences can be alarming at times.

For somebody like me, being looked at seductively by a homosexual male would make me terribly uncomfortable. Therefore, I would simply prefer to remove myself from the situation. And I don't think that makes me ignorant, intolerant, biggotted, or homophobic. Its simply an environment I'd prefer to stay away from.
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