migya wrote:He was averaging about 8pts in about 22mins so I thought he would score more than he is. He is getting about the same amount of minutes a game as Ford but is doing less across the board pretty much. He is better as a backup as Ford produces alot more and Calderon does just a little less than he's been doing

Ford produces more??? His numbers are 13.2 points, 2.1 boards and 7.4 assists, with 3.7 turnovers per game. So he scores less, gets less boards (Calderon is grabbing 2.6) and has a worse TO-to-assist ratio.

So, taken over 48 minutes, Ford is only a slightly better scorer, while worse at anything else. And, if you watch Toronto's games, they ALWAYS play a lot better when Calderon is on the court instead of Ford.

They should look to re-sign Calderon long term this offseason (which won't be cheap) and, in that case, trade Ford for help. He's still a good PG that would get them someone good in return. They could use an improvement at SG or SF (assuming Bargnani stays at C)

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:He was averaging about 8pts in about 22mins so I thought he would score more than he is. He is getting about the same amount of minutes a game as Ford but is doing less across the board pretty much. He is better as a backup as Ford produces alot more and Calderon does just a little less than he's been doing

Ford produces more??? His numbers are 13.2 points, 2.1 boards and 7.4 assists, with 3.7 turnovers per game. So he scores less, gets less boards (Calderon is grabbing 2.6) and has a worse TO-to-assist ratio.

So, taken over 48 minutes, Ford is only a slightly better scorer, while worse at anything else. And, if you watch Toronto's games, they ALWAYS play a lot better when Calderon is on the court instead of Ford.

They should look to re-sign Calderon long term this offseason (which won't be cheap) and, in that case, trade Ford for help. He's still a good PG that would get them someone good in return. They could use an improvement at SG or SF (assuming Bargnani stays at C)

Where the hell did you get those stats for Ford from?!
His stats are: 13.2pts, 2.1rebs, 7.4asts, 2.3TOs, 1.2stls in 26mins 11secs

Calderon's stats: 9.8pts, 2.6rebs, 7.8asts, 1.4TOs, 0.8stls in 25mins 30secs.


So Ford gets barely more court time and yet scores quite a bit more, rebounds and assists are slightly to Calderon but let's be honest, not real significant, same for steals but slightly for Ford and TOs favour Calderon quite well. In all, both a very good PGs who run the team well but Ford still does a bit more

migya wrote:Where the hell did you get those stats for Ford from?!

Same place you did, from his yahoo profile. Except I made a mistake and took his career TOs stat, instead of this year's. Yours are right. Other than that, those are the stats I posted.


Just watch a few or Toronto's games and you'll see the difference. EVERYBODY plays better when Calderon is on the court instead of Ford.

I'm not saying Ford is a bad player, far from it... just that, being a valuable PG, Toronto should use him as trade bait to improve other areas of their roster. Both of those guys should start, so it makes no sense to pay a sh*tload of million to both.

TJ Ford is Chris Bosh's point guard. Colangelo went out and got him after asking Bosh who, out of the available points, he wanted. Bosh likes the uptempo game that Ford plays, as opposed to Calderon, who prefers a half court set. There's no doubt that Toronto has become a better team with a quicker pace...

Yea but TMC is right, they are playing real well with Calderon starting. I think they have a real luxury in having two very good PGs who slpit time pretty much down the middle and if they could keep that then great. They do need improvement in some other areas but they are young and will get better with the roster they have. Bargnani will only get better and the likes of Delfino and Parker are playing well and are young themselves

migya wrote: Bargnani will only get better and the likes of Delfino and Parker are playing well and are young themselves

They need a better SG. Parker is alright but he's 33 already... At SF, Jamario Moon looks like a keeper. Won't tear up the league, but he's more than decent to start. And Delfino and Kapono are good backups... but I still think they need another SG.

Other than that, looks like Toronto has a great future.

If they can keep Calderon, they're set. They'd have a stud fast break point in Ford and a stud halfcourt point in Jose. That would be hard to stop. No matter what the opponent, they'd be able to hang. Look at what TJ Ford did against Golden State... and then see how Calderson faired against the slow set Bulls. Calderon dropped 19 points, 14 assists, and 2 steals against Chicago, while TJ Ford put up 29 points, 9 assists, and 6 rebounds against the Warriors.

Their EFF ratings are within 0.2 of each other, with Calderon having the advantage 13.35 to 13.15.

TMC wrote:

migya wrote: Bargnani will only get better and the likes of Delfino and Parker are playing well and are young themselves

They need a better SG. Parker is alright but he's 33 already... At SF, Jamario Moon looks like a keeper. Won't tear up the league, but he's more than decent to start. And Delfino and Kapono are good backups... but I still think they need another SG.

Other than that, looks like Toronto has a great future.

I agree, a SG is a must for them because they have good players that are inconsistent but no very good, allstar caliber player at SG or SF. They are a team with a fair amount of pretty good players but not enough very good ones as Bosh is the only one and maybe Bargnani though he has been up and down himself

New Rankings:

1. Boston Celtics:
They've had about the easiest 22 games of any team in the league, but they've made the '96 bulls look non-dominant in comparison during those 22 games.
2. San Antonio Spurs:
Just as for the last several years, Duncan would have to get shot up in a club for them to exit the top three.
3. Phoenix Suns:
People say they're in a slump. I wish the Warriors could be 7-3 in their last ten, including a win over the spurs, and call it a slump. Oh wait, they were a few days ago...
4. Dallas Mavericks:
Finally out of their slump, the Mavs have beaten Orlando, Houston, and New Orleans in their last three games. And this is all with Dirk playing like he's had a vasectomy.
5. Orlando Magic:
I think Dwight Howard is not just one of the two most untradeable players in the league, he's one of the two most untradeable players since Duncan was a youngster.
6. LA Lakers:
They've had a daunting schedule but they've played through it without Kobe averaging absurd point totals for a change.
7. Detroit:
Yeah, sure, sure, they should be ahead of the Lakers based on how they're playing, but it's not as if they'll do anything in the playoffs unless they get enough power rankings hate.
8. Portland:
Brandon Roy is playing like an unselfish Steve Francis in his prime and LaMarcus Aldridge is worth his weight in gold. Now if only they had a third future superstar for Roy to feed down low just waiting to come back next season to solve their rebounding woes...
9. Golden State:
I think it's time to celebrate that we've finally gotten to the point where the Warriors can make a top ten without being on a win streak.
10. Denver Nuggets:
Allen Iverson has finally got his mojo back. It's not going to do enough for them to make playoff noise, but it should help them in the regular season.
11. New Orleans Hornets:
Now 15-10 on the road...that's right, because they never have a home court advantage in that empty arena
12. Toronto Raptors:
Doing nothing special, but posting a very respectable record.
13. Washington Wizards:
It's amazing what they're doing without Gilbert, but I can't imagine it will last.
14. Utah Jazz.
Oh how the mighty have fallen. Still, even with the 13th best record in the NBA the Boozer-Okur-AK47-DWill foursome is fearsome and they're probably the fourth or fifth best team in the league when they're playing well.

1.- Boston Celtics.- The scary thing is that I don't think KG is playing his best bball of the season yet.

2.- San Antonio Spurs.- They went 2-2 without Duncan. Now that he's back, they're back on track.

3.- Phoenix Suns.- Troubles in paradise?. Nash has been talking lately about lack of effort by some of his teammates... Still, they're the third best team to me. I'd love to have that kind of concerns.

4.- Detroit Pistons.- They're 8-2 in december and playing like a top team in the east.

5.- Dallas Mavericks.- Dirk is not exactly playing like the MVP, but they have won some quality games lately. They have 8 of their next 10 at home, which never hurts.

6.- Orlando Magic.- As well as they're playing on the road, as dominant as Dwight has been... I still don't think they have enough to be a true contender in the east. I mean, which contender can you see losing at home against Atlanta and Memphis?.

7.- New Orleans Hornets.- They're winning quality games this year, like the other day against the Suns. And with Stojakovic out of the lineup...

8.- LA Lakers.- Kobe demanded help this summer... and he has found it in Bynum, who's averaging 14, 12 and 3 blocks during the last 4 games.

9.- Golden State Warriors.- We're winning big games again. But now the schedule becomes a true test for the team, with 8 of the next 10 on the road (that stretch started with the Detroit game, tho).

10.- Portland Trail Blazers.- Brandon Roy is playing at all star level and the rest of the team (specially Travis Outlaw) have stepped up their game to help the team get some impressive wins. They have won the last 8, including some impressive wins against Golden State, two against Utah (one on the road) and against New Orleans.

11.- Toronto Raptors.- Ok, so they can't win against Boston. So what?. They're winning the games they're supposed to win, and that's enough for them to sneak into the east playoffs, and probably to reach the second round. Bosh is starting to play like everybody expected, Calderon had 107 assists and 15 turnovers over the previous 10 games til the last game against Boston and the role players are playing those roles perfectly (Delfino, Moon, Humphries...) That's what I call a bball team. Also, here's hoping for TJ Ford's quick recovery.

12.- Denver Nuggets.- Still able to beat anybody. Still able to lose to anybody.

13.- Washington Wizards.- They're having a remarkable season, considering they're without Arenas and Antonio Daniels.

14.- Utah Jazz.- At some point they have to start winning again on the road. Even with Okur out, they shouldn't be losing that much. Not with Deron and Boozer healthy.

15.- Indiana Pacers.- Jim O'Brien is doing a great job with that team. And once Jermaine O'Neal gets up to speed, they should be even better.

16.- Houston Rockets.- The deep Rockets that were touted as a contender in preseason (me included), suddenly look like the same two-man team they've been since trading for T-Mac. That's not the way to win big in the playoffs.

17.- Cleveland Cavaliers.- With Lebron healthy again and Varejao and Hughes back on the team, they have nowhere to go but up.

18.- Atlanta Hawks.- Their young kids are starting to deliver, and that shows on their record.

19.- Chicago Bulls.- Still not the team everybody expected, but at least they're winning games again. They're starting to see the Hinrich they expected, but Ben Wallace is still MIA.

20.- Sacramento Kings.- What a big season John Salmons is having... The Kings won't make the playoffs, but they're not an easy game for anybody.

21.- New Jersey Nets.- Still talented, still losing too much (twice against the Knicks!!!). They're 3-7 in december. If they keep losing, I think we'll see changes... and soon.

22.- Philadelphia 76ers.- The Sixers are not a good team, but they're smart enough to know it and try to play hard each game. That gives them a chance to win against most teams. With 12 of their next 16 on the road, it won't be easy to keep winning.

23.- Milwaukee Bucks.- Good team at home. 2-11 on the road. 'Nuff said.

24.- Miami Heat.- They have to start winning at some point. Wade, Ricky Davis, Shaq, Zo, Haslem... There's no reason for this team to not make the playoffs. Still, they keep piling Ls...

25.- LA Clippers.- Fun team to watch. And Kaman is having a big season. Sadly, they don't have a backcourt worth playing in the NBA.

26.- Charlotte Bobcats.- They have to be disappointed with J-Rich. Hopefully, the trade for Mohammed will get some help for Okafor inside.

27.- Memphis Grizzlies.- This is now Rudy Gay's team. Navarro is playing well, tho, but if Gasol is traded, he won't be back next year.

28.- Seattle Supersonics.- The season is going as they expected when they traded Allen. Lots of Ls and lots of minutes for their young kids. It was a smart decision.

29.- New York Knicks.- What a mess... And they thought that the trade for Zach Randolph would make them an east contender...

30.- Minnesota Timberwolves.- They basically traded KG for Al Jefferson. At this point, they better realize that's what happened.