Seahawks at 49ers

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:15 am
sfsfsfgiants wrote:Would you say that Clements is the best CB in the NFC?


I'm gonna play a bit of a homer here, but I'd still go with Ronde over him. It's just that teams do not pass much his way, so he's not on the spotlight as much.

Clements is second best, tho. :wink:

sfsfsfgiants wrote:However, I do think that Seattle is on their way down, and the Niners are on their way up. Bada, do you agree with that? I think that Hasslebeck has a few good years left, while Alexander has just really been going downhill the past few years. They need to start thinking about building for the future.


Seattle does have to think about their future, sure, but they're still a top team in the NFC. I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the SB again... That team still has a few good years of football.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:28 am
TMC wrote:I'm gonna play a bit of a homer here, but I'd still go with Ronde over him. It's just that teams do not pass much his way, so he's not on the spotlight as much.
Teams don't pass Champ Baily's way much either but you still hear his name a lot. Really I don't know who is best, nor does anyone else because it is so hard to compare CBs given the opponents they face and the systems they are in.
TMC wrote:Seattle does have to think about their future, sure, but they're still a top team in the NFC. I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the SB again... That team still has a few good years of football.
They have some problems on offense though, which is they have no rhythm. They are a finesse offense (yes I said it badabing), they are not a smash mouth unit, when Alexander doesn't get those holes when he is ready for them then he doesn't get any yards.

Hasselbeck is not a good improvisational QB either, they run timed routes (much like the early 2000's Rams), if those receivers aren't there then he doesn't know what to do, but take the sack or try to force it into double coverage (granted he doesn't do, all that often).

They have some good vets that know how to win games, but ask anyone on that offense and they'll tell you they have been lucky thus far (same is even more true for my 9ers). I hope that offense doesn't get clicking anytime soon though, our my 9ers will quickly fall out of contention in that division.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:40 am
JReed23 wrote: Teams don't pass Champ Baily's way much either but you still hear his name a lot. Really I don't know who is best, nor does anyone else because it is so hard to compare CBs given the opponents they face and the systems they are in.


True, but Champ is a mainstay in the NFL. They're gonna keep talking about him no matter what. It's one of those guys that are hyped no matter what they do (not saying he doesn't deserve it, tho).

It's true is really hard to try to compare players in the NFL, with all the differences of system, rivals... I think Ronde is one of the best ever (as proven by being the only CB in league history with more than 20 INTs and 20 sacks), but is he a byproduct of the Tampa 2 system?. Or just a great fit?. Most probably, we'll never know...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:19 pm
Seattle does have to think about their future, sure, but they're still a top team in the NFC. I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the SB again... That team still has a few good years of football.They have some problems on offense though, which is they have no rhythm. They are a finesse offense (yes I said it badabing), they are not a smash mouth unit, when Alexander doesn't get those holes when he is ready for them then he doesn't get any yards.

Hasselbeck is not a good improvisational QB either, they run timed routes (much like the early 2000's Rams), if those receivers aren't there then he doesn't know what to do, but take the sack or try to force it into double coverage (granted he doesn't do, all that often).

They have some good vets that know how to win games, but ask anyone on that offense and they'll tell you they have been lucky thus far (same is even more true for my 9ers). I hope that offense doesn't get clicking anytime soon though, our my 9ers will quickly fall out of contention in that division.

JReed, I agree with you that Seattle has a finesse offense but I am failing to understand why that is relevant or as you say causes them "issues"

Isn't that more a style preference? The NFL does not give points for toughness on offense. All that matter is points per game. Does not matter how you accomplish it. Indy has a finese offense and they won the Superbowl. The Rams won Superbowls with a finese offense. The Niners in their hay day won a bunch of SuperBowls with a finese offense.

The Seahawks do have a timing offense. And when they are clicking, they are very difficult to stop. Keep in mind this was the highest scoring team in the NFL two year ago before the injury bug hit them big time last year.

I think they will continue to improve offensively.

I think you are underestimating Hasselbeck as well. He does have some improvisational skills but Holmgren has really worked hard with him to limit that and just take the sack or throw the ball away and live for another down. Holmgren is very conservative by nature and has reigned Hass in from his younger wilder play style.

Fact remains that Hasselbeck over the past 4 years has the highest QB rating of any quarterback in the league in the last two mintutes of the game, top 3 QB redzone rating, and top 3 4th quarter comebacks.

No, he is not a worldbeater, but he is certainly a top 10 QB in this league.

Their offense is a bit aging and that will need to be addressed. Defensively however they are very young and talented.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:17 pm
badabing8888 wrote:JReed, I agree with you that Seattle has a finesse offense but I am failing to understand why that is relevant or as you say causes them "issues"
It is causing them problems, as I stated, because they are out of rhythm, and in a finesse/timing based offense you need to be in rhythm. In this style of offense, the longer it takes for the holes to open up for Alexander, and the longer it takes those WRs to find space, than the worse your offense will perform, more so than it will effect a smash mouth style of offense.
badabing8888 wrote:The NFL does not give points for toughness on offense. All that matter is points per game.
You are being condescending here, of course I know this, that wasn't my point at all.
badabing8888 wrote:Indy has a finese offense and they won the Superbowl.
Indy is seemingly always in sync/rhythm, much like your Hawks were over the past several years. Nothing is wrong with a timing/finesse offense as long as your clicking, but when you aren't than you have major problems, which they do on offense. Their D has carried them thus far, and with a little help by way of fantastic WR play in a couple games.
badabing8888 wrote:The Seahawks do have a timing offense. And when they are clicking, they are very difficult to stop. Keep in mind this was the highest scoring team in the NFL two year ago before the injury bug hit them big time last year.
Never argued this, you are right, when they are clicking they are nearly impossible to stop. But you keep in mind that the Hawks Oline isn't what they used to be.
badabing8888 wrote:I think they will continue to improve offensively.
Baring more injuries, I reluctantly agree with you, though they don't have the upside on that side of the ball that they once did.
badabing8888 wrote:I think you are underestimating Hasselbeck as well. He does have some improvisational skills but Holmgren has really worked hard with him to limit that and just take the sack or throw the ball away and live for another down. Holmgren is very conservative by nature and has reigned Hass in from his younger wilder play style.
Likely because having Farve for a QB, shaved a considerable amount of years off of his life. But seriously, this is another reason why it is so important that they maintain their rhythm, because whether it is Hasselbeck's inability to improvise or Holmgren's imposed will, he'll be hindered in is ability to instinctively react once a play has broken down.

badabing8888 wrote:Fact remains that Hasselbeck over the past 4 years has the highest QB rating of any quarterback in the league in the last two mintutes of the game, top 3 QB redzone rating, and top 3 4th quarter comebacks.


No, he is not a worldbeater, but he is certainly a top 10 QB in this league.
I can't argue stats, and he is a QB that wont loose the game for you. My point/opinion is that if things in that system get worse, he wont be the guy to put that team on his back and win games, how the system goes, so does Hasselbeck. Remember this is a guy that only won 1 more game than Seneca Wallace in their last 11 games of last season (Wallace 2-3) (Hasselbeck 3-4).

It is a little cliché, but Hasselbeck is a product of his system, which like I've said, it isn't a bad thing if the system is performing well.
badabing8888 wrote:Their offense is a bit aging and that will need to be addressed. Defensively however they are very young and talented.
I agree with both statements, just so you understand I'm not unfairly attacking you or your team.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:21 pm
TMC wrote:
JReed23 wrote: Teams don't pass Champ Baily's way much either but you still hear his name a lot. Really I don't know who is best, nor does anyone else because it is so hard to compare CBs given the opponents they face and the systems they are in.


True, but Champ is a mainstay in the NFL. They're gonna keep talking about him no matter what. It's one of those guys that are hyped no matter what they do (not saying he doesn't deserve it, tho).

It's true is really hard to try to compare players in the NFL, with all the differences of system, rivals... I think Ronde is one of the best ever (as proven by being the only CB in league history with more than 20 INTs and 20 sacks), but is he a byproduct of the Tampa 2 system?. Or just a great fit?. Most probably, we'll never know...
Ronde is one of the best ever; maybe not a first ballot Hall of Famer, due to the fact that he hasn't really received as much notoriety as he deserves. I believe you could have placed him in any system and he would have been a probowler.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:25 pm
JReed23 wrote:
badabing8888 wrote:JReed, I agree with you that Seattle has a finesse offense but I am failing to understand why that is relevant or as you say causes them "issues"
It is causing them problems, as I stated, because they are out of rhythm, and in a finesse/timing based offense you need to be in rhythm. In this style of offense, the longer it takes for the holes to open up for Alexander, and the longer it takes those WRs to find space, than the worse your offense will perform, more so than it will effect a smash mouth style of offense.
badabing8888 wrote:The NFL does not give points for toughness on offense. All that matter is points per game.
You are being condescending here, of course I know this, that wasn't my point at all.
badabing8888 wrote:Indy has a finese offense and they won the Superbowl.
Indy is seemingly always in sync/rhythm, much like your Hawks were over the past several years. Nothing is wrong with a timing/finesse offense as long as your clicking, but when you aren't than you have major problems, which they do on offense. Their D has carried them thus far, and with a little help by way of fantastic WR play in a couple games.
badabing8888 wrote:The Seahawks do have a timing offense. And when they are clicking, they are very difficult to stop. Keep in mind this was the highest scoring team in the NFL two year ago before the injury bug hit them big time last year.
Never argued this, you are right, when they are clicking they are nearly impossible to stop. But you keep in mind that the Hawks Oline isn't what they used to be.
badabing8888 wrote:I think they will continue to improve offensively.
Baring more injuries, I reluctantly agree with you, though they don't have the upside on that side of the ball that they once did.
badabing8888 wrote:I think you are underestimating Hasselbeck as well. He does have some improvisational skills but Holmgren has really worked hard with him to limit that and just take the sack or throw the ball away and live for another down. Holmgren is very conservative by nature and has reigned Hass in from his younger wilder play style.
Likely because having Farve for a QB, shaved a considerable amount of years off of his life. But seriously, this is another reason why it is so important that they maintain their rhythm, because whether it is Hasselbeck's inability to improvise or Holmgren's imposed will, he'll be hindered in is ability to instinctively react once a play has broken down.

badabing8888 wrote:Fact remains that Hasselbeck over the past 4 years has the highest QB rating of any quarterback in the league in the last two mintutes of the game, top 3 QB redzone rating, and top 3 4th quarter comebacks.


No, he is not a worldbeater, but he is certainly a top 10 QB in this league.
I can't argue stats, and he is a QB that wont loose the game for you. My point/opinion is that if things in that system get worse, he wont be the guy to put that team on his back and win games, how the system goes, so does Hasselbeck. Remember this is a guy that only won 1 more game than Seneca Wallace in their last 11 games of last season (Wallace 2-3) (Hasselbeck 3-4).

It is a little cliché, but Hasselbeck is a product of his system, which like I've said, it isn't a bad thing if the system is performing well.
badabing8888 wrote:Their offense is a bit aging and that will need to be addressed. Defensively however they are very young and talented.
I agree with both statements, just so you understand I'm not unfairly attacking you or your team.


Really cant argue much of what you said. Well done, well written, and well presented.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:36 pm
badabing8888 wrote:Really cant argue much of what you said. Well done, well written, and well presented.
Thanks, now that is said...9ers take the division 10-6 and shut the 12th man up when they goto Seattle in week 10, 27-10... The hawks fall short of the playoffs, going 9-7, after the Lions and Panthers clinch the wild cards. :mrgreen: Ahh yes, let the homerism resume...lol
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:07 pm
JReed23 wrote:
badabing8888 wrote:Really cant argue much of what you said. Well done, well written, and well presented.
Thanks, now that is said...9ers take the division 10-6 and shut the 12th man up when they goto Seattle in week 10, 27-10... The hawks fall short of the playoffs, going 9-7, after the Lions and Panthers clinch the wild cards. :mrgreen: Ahh yes, let the homerism resume...lol


HA HA HA. I love it!

I will be at that game! Going to make an extended weekend of it. Wife and I will fly up friday night and leave on Tuesday. That would kind of ruin my weekend. But I dont see it happening. That place on a Monday night is going to be in a frenzy. If the o-line had problems yesterday, just wait till they go to the place that leads the NFL in opposition false starts the past 3 years.

If any of you have a chance to see a game at Quest, it is truly an amazing experience.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:09 pm
couple more things...

Only 3 teams have made the playoffs the past 4 years.... Indy, Patriots and you guessed it... the Seahawks

Only 3 of the 6 division champs from last year are over .500 this year... Indy, Patriots, and you guessed it... the Seahawks!

GO HAWKS!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:30 pm
badabing8888 wrote:
JReed23 wrote:
badabing8888 wrote:Really cant argue much of what you said. Well done, well written, and well presented.
Thanks, now that is said...9ers take the division 10-6 and shut the 12th man up when they goto Seattle in week 10, 27-10... The hawks fall short of the playoffs, going 9-7, after the Lions and Panthers clinch the wild cards. :mrgreen: Ahh yes, let the homerism resume...lol


HA HA HA. I love it!

I will be at that game! Going to make an extended weekend of it. Wife and I will fly up friday night and leave on Tuesday. That would kind of ruin my weekend. But I dont see it happening. That place on a Monday night is going to be in a frenzy. If the o-line had problems yesterday, just wait till they go to the place that leads the NFL in opposition false starts the past 3 years.

If any of you have a chance to see a game at Quest, it is truly an amazing experience.
Thats a Monday night game? Well, I imagine the 9ers will be a different team by then (or at least I hope), and if we can go 6-4 than a lot will be riding on that game. I can't imagine that our oline woes wont be worked out by then (again I hope).
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:33 pm
badabing8888 wrote:couple more things...

Only 3 teams have made the playoffs the past 4 years.... Indy, Patriots and you guessed it... the Seahawks

Only 3 of the 6 division champs from last year are over .500 this year... Indy, Patriots, and you guessed it... the Seahawks!

GO HAWKS!
Ahh... But all good things must come to an end...lol. No in reality, it is hard to imagine the Hawks wont make the playoffs, especially with how horrible the NFC is. But we both better watch out for the Cards, they handled the Steelers this week, that D and running game look solid.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:06 pm
JReed23 wrote:
sfsfsfgiants wrote:
JReed23 wrote:
sfsfsfgiants wrote:Well, come on now. The Niners played Pittsburgh and Seattle, two playoff teams. The Raiders played the Browns and the Dolphins. Two bottom dwellers. I didnt expect the Niners to have that much trouble with Seattle, and I thought that they were relatively even. However, I do think that Seattle is on their way down, and the Niners are on their way up. Bada, do you agree with that? I think that Hasslebeck has a few good years left, while Alexander has just really been going downhill the past few years. They need to start thinking about building for the future.


You misread my post, I was talking about the Raiders of last season when they had statically the 2nd best D (probably the best though with how that O played).

Pittsburgh is not that good also, they got handled pretty good today by the cards, but that has nothing to do with what I previously posted anyways.

Previously you said that Trent was the worst backup QB in the league, but I doubt any other backup could have performed much better with as little as he had to work with. Being a backup is hard for many reasons even without having the worst O-Line (Yes they are playing like it) in the league.

And you keep saying stuff like how we should run more trick plays to Battle or that VD being out really hurt us, but none of that means anything with out protection up front. I am amazed by the fact that it seems nobody else sees this nor is commenting on it. Lets forget about the stupid trick plays and receiver favoritism and just get some goddamn first downs!!! Which to the coaching staffs credit they didn't call any trick plays other than that sneak onside kick. Lets try to keep our QB (who ever it may be) on his feet and not on his back!!!

No offense sfsfsf, but thank god you aren't or O-coordinator - our offense is built to be a smash mouth O. It is true that a trick play here and there is not such a bad thing, but we need to get back to the basics. Our offense in general is disgusting.


I was actually talking to William, because I wrote my post at the same time you posted yours. :wink:

Out offense isnt disgusting. Mike Nolan just wont open it up. We need to do what we do best. Look at how you are doing, and change accordingly. If I was calling plays when Dilfer was playing, I would have called three step drop slants. We weren't blocking anyone, and a five or seven step drop is what was killing us. Every time Dilfer dropped back to throw, he was killed. I would actually like to see Shaun Hill out there, because Dilfer isnt made for this team. We need a guy who can move back there, and Dilfer is one of the slowest QB's in the league.

my bad sfsfsf, you are right about the play selection, but it isn't Nolan making the calls. We could do a lot worse than Dilfer (Tim Rattay).

And how can you not think our offense is disgusting? How bad does it have to be for you to be disgusted by their play? We are dead last in yards!!!! That includes teams that have only played 3 games!!!! Come On!


Like hell Nolan isnt calling the plays. Our offensive coordinator does nothing. Nolan has even said in his post game interviews: I made a bad call on the third and short.

I agree with you that Rattay is worse than Dilfer, mainly because Dilfer brings that veteran leadership.

I will rephraise this: I think that so far, the way we call plays, and the way we have executed them, yeah, we are disgusting. -30 passing yards in the first half yesterday, but that goes on the O-Line. I think that we could have a legit offense if some players come out to play. Our O-Line does need to step it up, but so does Darrell Jackson, Frank Gore, and whoever we have at QB. Call the right plays to the right players, and any team can move the ball. Take advantage of your skills.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:40 pm
sfsfsfgiants wrote:Like hell Nolan isnt calling the plays. Our offensive coordinator does nothing. Nolan has even said in his post game interviews: I made a bad call on the third and short.
Nah, Nolan has a lot less to do with the play selection than you think. I thought the play selection this week was way better than the previous 3 games - mainly because we stopped running the ball on 2nd or 3rd and long all the time.

sfsfsfgiants wrote:I think that so far, the way we call plays, and the way we have executed them, yeah, we are disgusting. -30 passing yards in the first half yesterday, but that goes on the O-Line. I think that we could have a legit offense if some players come out to play. Our O-Line does need to step it up, but so does Darrell Jackson, Frank Gore, and whoever we have at QB. Call the right plays to the right players, and any team can move the ball. Take advantage of your skills.
DJack will always drop passes (ask badabing I'm sure he knows about that), he is not that good of a WR, for a 4th round pick, sure he is good, but not for a no.1 WR. Gore needs to hang onto the ball better than he has, but his effort is good, he just doesn't have any holes to run threw. I don't have problem with the play calls like I said, any offensive coordinator is going to look bad with the way our line has played thus far.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:50 pm
I bet you that Nolan calls every single play. He wont let anyone do it, or there would be different calls. They dont trust the offense enough to let them do anything.

I think that it goes both ways regarding the playcalling and the O-Line. If we ran the right play, with the right blocking schemes, it might work.

Did you just say that you like our play calling?

Holy crap, man. I can tell you our design.

1st down) run up the middle
2nd down) run up the middle
3rd down) play action, broken up
4th down) punt for 65 yards.

Our play calling sucks.
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