Player32 wrote:... the trade was made AFTER the pick, BigW. Toronto had selected Antawn Jamison. Golden State picked Vince Carter. They didn't trade draft picks prior to the evening; they traded players during the evening. Vince Carter could have been a Warrior, but Golden State dealt him to Toronto because they were trying to stop a Dallas trade that would have sent Antawn Jamison to the Mavericks (because Nelly was incredibly interested in the prospect of Antawn Jamison). They pounced on Jamison (including shelling out cash) to intercept Dallas' interest. While it was a dick move at the time by the Warriors, Dallas got the last laugh (in a way) because Vince Carter turned out to be a bonafide star on the Raptors while Jamison busted on Golden State, instead of them.

But saying that there was no chance Vince could have been a Warrior is false. Had Dallas not made an advance towards Antawn Jamison, the Warriors may have never thought he was worth so much. Instead of being happy with Carter, the Warriors took a chance and blew it.

Wrong, the deal was made(verbally) before the picks were taken. Toronto took Jamison for the Warriors and the deal was completed within 10 minutes of Vince being drafted. If there was no deal Toronto would have drafted Vince Carter. Gary St. Jean had his heart set on Antawn Jamison so he made the deal to lock up Jamison and to keep Toronto from trading the pick to a team that actually wanted Jamison. Toronto was never going to pick Jamison for themselves.

My proof, directly from the archives of the SF Chronicle:

Warriors Deal for Jamison
Raptors get cash, Carter for Tar Heel
David Steele, Chronicle Staff Writer

Thursday, June 25, 1998


This much is clear: The Warriors really, really wanted Antawn Jamison.

And right now, that's about all that is clear about their newest player.

The Warriors thought highly enough of the 6-foot-9 North Carolina forward, the consensus college player of the year this past season, to send the Toronto Raptors cold, hard cash for the right to draft him.

The Raptors picked Jamison fourth overall in last night's NBA draft in Vancouver, British Columbia. The Warriors took his Tar Heel teammate, swingman Vince Carter, with the next pick. But before long, both players switched hats, and Jamison -- who dominated inside for a North Carolina team that reached last spring's Final Four -- was a Warrior.

Despite Jamison's credentials, the move immediately raised a number of questions: Why did the Warriors fill a position that's already stocked? Why did they pass on the wealth of guards available? Where exactly will the newcomer play?

To general manager Garry St. Jean and coach P.J. Carlesimo, none of that mattered. Both used the word ``special'' to describe Jamison, and Carlesimo went as far as invoking the name of James Worthy, pointing out that Jamison's former coaches, Dean Smith and Bill Guthridge, compared Jamison to the future Hall of Famer and member of the NBA's 50th anniversary team.

``Antawn, we think, is going to be special,'' Carlesimo said. ``And he'll be special in the very near future.''

Jamison will be special, the Warriors' brain trust said, because he can make an impact at either forward position. That theory goes against the beliefs of some that he is too small to play power forward and doesn't have the skills to play small forward.

Jamison disagreed, however. ``That's one reason I think Golden State tried to get me. I think I really surprised them by the way I could shoot the ball,'' he said. ``I didn't visit a lot of teams, but the ones I did visit I showed I could shoot the ball and convinced them.''

And as far as playing the other position, he added, ``There are going to be opportunities for me to play the `four' and I'll be very comfortable playing the four. I have no problem with that.''

In taking Jamison (who averaged 22.2 points and 10.5 rebounds as a junior this past season), the Warriors passed on the bevy of talented guards still on the board, including St. Louis' Larry Hughes (who went eighth to Philadelphia) and, surprisingly, Kansas' Paul Pierce (who lasted until No. 10, to Boston).

The Warriors' argument -- an extremely valid one -- is that at 19-63, they couldn't afford to be picky about areas of need. Their most desperate need is at guard, with Latrell Sprewell ticketed out of town sometime before next season, with off-guard Jim Jackson a free agent, and with no sure-fire starting point guard.

However, said assistant general manager Gary Fitzsimmons, drafting strictly for need can be dangerous. ``If it happens to fit one of your needs, then you've hit a home run,'' he said, ``but if it doesn't, I've learned that you can make a mistake by taking a guy to fill a need instead of a guy that's the most talented.''

The Warriors had expected that Jamison, Carter, Hughes and Kansas forward Raef LaFrentz would be there when their turn came. Tuesday night, St. Jean said, they decided on Jamison.

Jamison said he knew when Toronto picked him that a trade was in the works, because he had declined to work out for the Raptors. But he thought the Dallas Mavericks were the team moving to get him. The Warriors apparently thought so, too: ``We got a tip,'' St. Jean said.

It could very well have been a smoke screen -- especially in light of the Mavs' blockbuster deal later in the draft that netted them Suns point guard Steve Nash and sent No. 6 pick Robert Traylor to Milwaukee. Nevertheless, the Warriors took no chances, started talking to the Raptors and settled on a cash deal -- believed to be between $250,000 and $500,000 -- to get the Raptors to take Jamison and then trade him.

Still, Jamison plays a position manned by Donyell Marshall, the Warriors' leading scorer and most consistent player last season, on one side, and free-agents-to-be Jason Caffey and Clarence Weatherspoon on the other. While describing where Jamison fits in, St. Jean sounded a note of skepticism about keeping Caffey and Weatherspoon, especially with an owners' lockout looming next Thursday.

``We've talked to Spoon, we've talked to Jimmy, we've talked to Jason,'' St. Jean said. ``We've expressed that we'd certainly like to have them back. We've had very positive dialogue from both of them. But with what's going to be happening next week, everything's going to be in limbo for a while. We're going to continue while we can to have discussions. We just felt like we could really get the player we wanted.''

Agent Jimmy Sexton, who represents both Caffey and Weatherspoon, said he was ``a little bit surprised'' to see the Warriors take Jamison and to hear what St. Jean said. ``Anything can happen in free agency,'' Sexton said last night, ``but I didn't give them any sign that either player wouldn't be wide-open to coming back.''

Meanwhile, while praising Marshall's improvement, St. Jean said, ``I don't think anybody, after winning 19 games, should say, `I'm locked in for 35 minutes (a game).' It's about challenges. You're going to earn your minutes.''

The Warriors will introduce Jamison at a news conference today at noon at Oakland City Center; the public is invited.

That makes no sense. If Toronto was gonna take Vince Carter anyway, why would Golden State need their help (they were only one pick away)? The Raptors would have taken Carter and the Warriors would have taken Jamison, just the same. No need for a trade. If the Raptors would have traded their pick to the Mavericks, the Mavs would have taken Jamison. Either way, Golden State had a shot a Carter (apparently, more than once). The article sounds like something published IMMEDIATELY after the draft, when everything was still getting sorted out.

Either way, the bottom line is still the same: GS wanted Antawn Jamison more than Vince Carter. And it was in their power to get Carter. If they would have passed on Jamison (whom, the article says, would have been traded to the Mavs), they could have gotten Carter. Toronto's first option was to select Jamison and trade him, thats why the Warriors suggested a trade. The bottom line is still the same.

Nothing the Warriors did for a decade made any sense, what makes you think this trade would be any different?

You're reading comprehension skills are lacking, the article says there was a "rumor" that Dallas was going to trade up to get Jamison. It was never more than a rumor. The Warrior's went for the fake and paid some cash to lock up Jamison. Carter was never going to slip past the Raptors.
2 days later Nellie was saying he got the best player in the draft in Nowitzki, the Warriors were taken in by a fake and paid $110k to pick the player they would have had anyway, unless they wised up and picked Pierce. Carter was never within their grasp. What would make absolutely no sense would be Toronto taking only $110K to get their second choice.

To recap, I made a claim. Player32 said I was wrong. I backed up my claim with cold hard evidence. Player32 sticks to his story despite the evidence not because he has any other evidence, but because "it doesn't make any sense". Feel free to admit I was right and reclaim your integrity, Player32.

Hey Big W, have you ever heard the term "difference of opinion"? Yeah, i guess it was coined because not everyone thinks the same way, what a revelation! But if you need affirmation that you are right and cannot get it from player 32 they made a pill for that, it called Viagra. Supposedly it boost self esteem when men have problems with self image, get some.

BigW wrote:The Warrior's went for the fake and paid some cash to lock up Jamison

You're suggesting that the "evil Raptor franchise" and the "evil Maverick franchise" teamed up simply to screw Golden State out of some money? What the hell are you talking about? Dallas wouldn't "fake" Golden State into paying Toronto for Antawn Jamison. There's such thing as morals and common courtesy in the real world. You've been watching far too much WWE.

BigW wrote:To recap, I made a claim. Player32 said I was wrong. I backed up my claim with cold hard evidence.

First of all, I never said you were wrong. Unlike you, I believe in differences of opinion. You believed differently than me. Doesn't make you wrong, doesn't make me right. It's an argument.

Secondly, your so called "cold, hard evidence" came not from the Warriors themselves, but rather from a 3rd party. The San Fransisco Chronicle is not an unbiased, totally true recap of the Warriors moves. You're acting as though this article is scribed in stone. It's a newspaper, for God's sake, half of everything in it is false.

BigW wrote:Player32 sticks to his story despite the evidence not because he has any other evidence, but because "it doesn't make any sense".

Oh yeah, real revolutionary idea. Somebody actually disagrees with something that "doesn't make any sense." Wow, that's such a strange thought.

BigW wrote:You're reading comprehension skills are lacking.

English Major with a minor in teaching, my comprehension is anything BUT lacking. You want to talk about somebody lacking English skills; at least I know how to properly spell "your" when referring to another person (especially while insulting them about English, dumbass).

BigW wrote:Feel free to admit I was right and reclaim your integrity, Player32.

So, "integrity" would be to simply shrug and agree with you because your ass is getting sore instead of going with what I actually believe? And here I thought integrity had something to do with being true to one's self; not submitting because a Digimon player on a Warriors board in cyberspace is trying to start some faceless crap over useless content that doesn't really matter either way because (not only is it in the past, but) it's not in our hands. You think that sticking to what one believes is right is lacking integrity?

Nah, I'd rather sit back and let you look like an asshole who took a simple debate too seriously (all the while, laughing my ass off at FurZo's comment.) Enzyte and Viagra are definately in order for someone who gets shook so badley about a difference of opinion. But, unlike FurZo, I'm not going to recommend it because, odds are, you have nobody to share the results with. I can't imagine anybody willing to put up with such a belligerent, insecure, whining ass monkey like yourself. Have a nice time telling your Yu-Gi-Oh club about this little episode.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Antawn Jamison was a very good player and that has been shown! I'm happy with how things went, just didn't end up with much success.

I'm happy that the Warriors got Baron Davis because Gilbert Arenas went for nothing and that was awful!

Now Warriors have to keep the valuable players and not FUK things up and always use a player that looks like he wants to leave as leverage to get other players through trades, even future 1st round picks. Letting Larry Hughes go without trading him even for a future 1st round pick was STUPID!!!!

The W's BIGGEST mistake wasn't any of those....

It was getting GARY ST. JEAN to make those decisions..

Its like hiring the village idiot to be their leader....

I think I can finally agree with somebody here! Gary St Jean was Satin incarnate for the Warriors. He did everything he could to screw with us until we gave him the big boot. God, he was an ass.

Same as that Dave Twarshit!!!!

They both deserve burning hot kidney stones the size of walnuts.

OR having their face skinned and then being salt and vinegared!

Thank God for Chris Mullin! I'm so glad I don't have to worry about management doing something stupid anymore because Mully's holding the reigns! I love it!

He has been near flawless but I hope he resists trading alot of players who are fitting well for a player that might not fit in well.

For example, I think Paul Pierce is a great player and it looks like the Celtics are going to trade him but I'm not sure he will fit in the Warriors. He needs the ball alot as does Baron and JRich. He might not fit in but I can see Mullin maybe trying to get him