49ers vs Raiders

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:15 pm
Okay, just listening to pawnograffiti talk about the Raiders and why they are the better franchise, I wanted to make this, a topic about just that: 49ers vs Raiders. Why do you like your team, or dislike the other. One rule: be respectful... please....

In other words: 49ers vs Raiders depate.

If you want to get other teams involved, fine, but keep it on topic about football as opposed to how stupid other team's fans are, or stuff like that.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:54 pm
I'll start us off... the super bowls, the legendary players, the fans, and most of all, the late, great Bill Walsh.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:17 pm
This arguement is a moot point. 49'ers fans all went to ivy league schools and drive BMW's there parents bought them. Raider Nation don't know how to read or write let alone turn on a laptop.... so the true demographic of Raider Nation can't be voiced.

You guys certainly have more superbowls and that can be put down to the best coach bar Lombardi, The Greatest Quarterback PERIOD and the 2nd Best Wide Reciever (Fred Biletnikoff IMO no.1)

Anyways i won't take anything away from the Niners, you guys do have more trophys ect, your a great franchise, but you play in the NFC (it's like the Minor League of Football and the AFC is the major league) If you guys played in the AFC your trophy cabinet wouldn't be as stocked cause you'd meet the Raiders in a lot of big playoff or AFC championship games and you'd flat out lose.

(But my dream superbowl would have to be Raiders vs Niners... that be priceless)
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:20 pm
Oh **** it i just called Bill Walsh the greatest coach bar Lombardi and forgot to give love to my Boy John Madden, actually i'll stay by my statement cause Bill Walsh was a great man and he did win more lombardi trophys (allthough Madden would have easily had a better record then Walsh)
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:05 am
Saying that all 49ers fans went to Ivy League schools is the most biased thing I've heard in a long time.

True, that right now the NFC is a lot worse, but that changes all the time. In the 80's and 90's it was all NFC, and only recently has the AFC began to dominate.

Rice has three times as many catches as Bilitnikoff (1600 to 600), three times as many yards (23,000 to 9,000), and over twice as many TD's (200 to 76). I can give you a lot of leeway about being grossly biased to the Raiders, but Fred Biletnikoff couldnt hold a candle to Jerry Rice....

You said that if we were in the AFC, we would be playing the Raiders in the AFC championship game every year...? The Raiders first need to win a division game before they think about the AFC championship game. You have to admit that this year, the 49ers are much better than the Raiders, and we arent even thinking about the NFC Championship game, a league that you say is a minor league division, so how is it that you can expect the Raiders to go to the playoffs?

Good question: how many wins do you expect out of the Raiders, and how many out of the 49ers?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:13 am
On point with Walsh. He was a great coach, but he was even greater off the field. He built chemistry, treated his players as they were his own. No coach did it better than him.

Even if the Niners did play in the AFC, we'd still have the 5 Superbowls. C'mon now, even if we played the Raiders in an AFC division game or championship, how'd we flat out lose? An offense of Craig, Montana, and Rice isn't enough? The Raiders were stacked on offense, but there was an equal balance of power. And the AFC was NEVER ALWAYS better than the NFC. There was always a balance of powers. Each conference had its own era of being the dominant one.

I have to disagree with the best WR ever. Even a Raider fan has to be COMPLETELY biased to say Biletnikoff was better than Jerry Rice. We don't see his name as much as Jerry's in the record book.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:26 am
xbaywarrior wrote:I have to disagree with the best WR ever. Even a Raider fan has to be COMPLETELY biased to say Biletnikoff was better than Jerry Rice. We don't see his name as much as Jerry's in the record book.


Jerry may be a jerk... but he's the best WR ever, pawno. Even you have to acknowledge that.


Now I'm gonna pour some salt in the wound... who's the last team of our own to win the SB? Who? :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:00 am
Ok i was only adding fuel on the fire with Rice vs Fred arguement. you got me there! But how about this Fred was the best Causcasian WR and Rice was the best African American and best all time WR??? Any Objections.

What i loved about Fred was that he was a right off from the start and always overachieved... people say he couldn't run, catch or make big plays but his Heart and Gooey sticky stuff always proved his critics wrong :mrgreen:

sfsfsf- Sure 49'ers will win more games this season they have a adequate QB in Alex Smith and Vernon Davis is a beast at TE. I think you guys will qualify for the playoffs this season, but i think the Raiders will be poised to make the Superbowl next out of the 2 teams cause of our youth at DB. And Al Davis has a better ability to build championship winning teams (Why do you think we are known as the team of the decades)
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:19 am
pawnograffiti wrote:(Why do you think we are known as the team of the decades)


Because they're only relevant once per decade? :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:35 am
pawnograffiti wrote:Ok i was only adding fuel on the fire with Rice vs Fred arguement. you got me there! But how about this Fred was the best Causcasian WR and Rice was the best African American and best all time WR??? Any Objections.

What i loved about Fred was that he was a right off from the start and always overachieved... people say he couldn't run, catch or make big plays but his Heart and Gooey sticky stuff always proved his critics wrong :mrgreen:

sfsfsf- Sure 49'ers will win more games this season they have a adequate QB in Alex Smith and Vernon Davis is a beast at TE. I think you guys will qualify for the playoffs this season, but i think the Raiders will be poised to make the Superbowl next out of the 2 teams cause of our youth at DB. And Al Davis has a better ability to build championship winning teams (Why do you think we are known as the team of the decades)


They said the exact same thing about another little white guy who I think is the best white reciever ever: Steve Largent.

Pawno, lets do this: position by position who is better now and for the future:


..........NOW...........FUTURE
QB: SF--------------SF
RB: SF---------------SF
FB: SF-------------SF
WR: SF---------------SF
TE: SF---------------SF
OL: SF----------------SF
DL: OAK--------------OAK
LB: OAK---------------SF
DB: SF-----------------OAK
K: SF-----------------SF
P: OAK----------------SF
KR: OAK----------------OAK

Fair enough?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:29 pm
QB
Now: Alex Smith
Future: Jamarcus Russell (Bigger Arm, More Athleteism, Will sit most of this year but when he comes out, BOOM... It's AFC West Death)

RB
Now: Gore
Future: Michael Bush (This guy will be starting for the Raiders in the not too distant future, he was a Heismann trophy candidate before that freak leg injury and he did go out at louisville and post better numbers then Gore)

FB
Now:Justin Grifitth
Future: Justin Griffith
(Awesome blocker, one of the sole reason Atlanta was no.1 leading rushing offense last year cuase of this guy)

WR:
Now: Can't decide
Future: Can't Decide
Don't know enough of 49'ers Wide Reciever Core

TE:
Now: Vernon Davis
Future: Vernon Davis/ Zach Miller
Vernon Davis is the better of the TE and will probably remain that way, But zach Miller is no scrub at TE, It'll have to be a overachieving career to match what Vernon will do.

OL:
Now: Hmm... You guys
Future: Robert Gallery
Shed the BUST Status Robert, and you could book a ticket to Hawaii Pro Bowl, But until then you a bust Robert.

DL:
Now: Raiders
Future: undecided
Sapp and Burgess are awesome, but they're getting old. Al Davis needs to focus on this in upcoming drafts.

LB:
Now: Kirk Morrisson and Tomas Howard
Future: Kirk Morrison
This P Willis guy might be your boy. a high 1st round pick but Kirk Morrisson is a 3rd round pick and has already established himself as one of the best Linebackers in the game. P Willis isn't sold on me just yet.

DB:
Now: Oakland
Future: Oakland
If i need to explain myself on this one, you a revolver and 6 bullets.

Won't waste my time on K,P or KR.... Pfft!!! Special Teams sucks. but yeah you guys probably better.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:24 pm
I'll agree with the QB. The reason why is that the Niners are coaching Alex to become great, there giving him basic plays with no audibles to call from scrimmage even if notices that Gore's going to get pummled.

I don't know why you're high on Michael Bush. He hasn't even played a preseason game. He hasn't done much during training camp. Gore is now, and is the future. He's only what? 23? 24? Bush has been injury prone his whole life and hasn't proved a penny in the NFL yet while Gore has been injury prone most of his collegate career and he's proved a whole lot since drafted.

Griffith is an awesome blocker but please note Moran Norris ain't nothin'. Like sfsfsfgiants pointed out couple weeks back, most of Gore's runs during his NFC leading rushing season last year came behind not only Jennings and Allen, but Norris also.

Can't really say anything about the WR's either. Yet has to be truly utilized in a way where we can judge.

The TE should be the same though I'd give Vernon the edge because he's more athletic. Miller should be like a Todd Heap.

The o-line is the Niners now and is the future. The Niners have plenty of young studs to replace Allen and Jennings in the future.

The DL goes to the Raiders because our line is old and lacks the pass rushing.

The LB goes to the Raiders but it'll be borderline. P-Willis and co. will be equally good as Morrison.

The DB? The Niners now after the performance against Fitz and Boldin and Holt and Bruce. I'll give it to the Raiders in the future.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:41 pm
You talk about how good the AFC is. Why would he have more success than Alex in a weak division.

Louisville is in the Big East... Miami in the ACC. Dont compare them.

The sole reason that Atlanta was the leading rushing offense was because their QB was a running back. Moran Norris lead Gore to a rushing title.

I like Zach Miller, but Vernon is just too dangerous.

Grow up off Robert Gallery. He will never be more than a good player in the NFL, if that.

Patrick Willis is everywhere, all at once. I dont care if Morrison is a success story, the fact is that P-Will, like Vernon, is a huge play waiting to happen.

Defensive Backs is all 49ers. You have Asumugha, thats it. Dont talk to me about Michael Huff until he actually does something on the field. Walt Harris and Nate Clements are two all pro's, and Michael Lewis is one of the hardest hitting safetys in the league.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:01 pm
Michael Huff looks like another Roy Williams. He'll be a better run stopper than pass protecter. Fabian Washington is alright, but Asomugha is their only threat. But even then Javon Walker and Roy Williams have been having their way with him. Clements and Harris have shut down Fitz/Boldin and Holt/Bruce.

This defense has kept The Edge and Jackson to mediocre games while keeping the QB's under pressure and rolling out of the pocket.

Either way, we have the edge in every single position for now and the future. I don't say DL because DL and LB are pretty much the same position.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:06 pm
I would give them D-line, and maybe linebackers for this year. That is it. Dont give me some bullshit thing about how Robert Gallery is going to be a stud....
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