Boxing Fans?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:32 pm
Sounds like you have an insecurity with not knowing any ground fighting.

As far as just stand up fighting - Kickboxers destroy boxers because they are not one dimensional and know how to use their whole body. I've been practicing brazilian jiu jitsu for 2 years now and have recently started exercising to be fit for thai boxing training and I am now gaining so much more strength and speed from doing that. Kickboxers are champions at standup and jiu jitsuits are champions on the ground and in a street fight, everything goes so you need to know how to do both.

Boxers is a boutique fighting sport. It is more glamour and hype than anything else. I'm not saying that the real good boxers are not tough but they are not the fighters that MMA fighters are. Knowing any fighting technique, be it just boxing, is a good thing and really makes you feel better, physically and mentally
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migya make the ring fall on ya
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:03 am
No insecurities here, trust me. Just got carried away there a bit. Actually, I learned how to grapple in briefly studying BJJ, so I can clearly appreciate the sport and your passion for it. I just responded that way since you’ve brought this up twice now, and you really shouldn’t compare the two sports, much like you shouldn’t compare wrestling versus kickboxing. And we are talking about boxing in this thread and as a sport, aren’t we?

Your statement about kickboxers is still subjective, until you see two highly skilled individuals or champions at their sport go toe-to-toe. Don’t get me wrong, I love and watch Kickboxing whenever it’s on—that’s why I can make that statement. But you’ll be surprised to find that boxing (who do not using their feet or knees) has a much higher rate of KOs than kickboxing. Hmmm…

And boxing is hype? It’s an Olympic sport and part of the first ever Olympics in Greece, and you’re calling it hype? Boxing may be one dimensional compared to others, but you have not even begun to understand that dimension.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:34 pm
I'll just clear this up. CjR said that boxers would destroy MMA fighters in boxing, not anything else. ONLY BOXING. The boxers would have to be into and good at kickboxing, standup, and many more things to match well in the octagon.

I have nothing against MMA. I love UFC. And even though boxing has fallen off a bit because of the lack of big names in the heavyweight division, it'll always be regarded as one of the greatest traditional sports from all around the world. Like I said, I love the octagon, but the ring is where a true fighter begins.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:14 am
I do believe that MMA is only going to get more popular as people realise the evolution of things and the fact that MMA is complete fighting. Everyone has their favourite sport ofcourse
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:06 pm
xbaywarrior wrote:I'll just clear this up. CjR said that boxers would destroy MMA fighters in boxing, not anything else. ONLY BOXING. The boxers would have to be into and good at kickboxing, standup, and many more things to match well in the octagon.

I have nothing against MMA. I love UFC. And even though boxing has fallen off a bit because of the lack of big names in the heavyweight division, it'll always be regarded as one of the greatest traditional sports from all around the world. Like I said, I love the octagon, but the ring is where a true fighter begins.


Absolutely. And actually I took it a step further, X-bay, on my last post. I never really thought about comparing boxers’ principal skills to others until now. I’m convinced that a boxer can/will match and beat a kickboxer, even if they employ kicks and knees. Without kick and knees, that’s a no brainer.

I’ve seen many fights where one kickboxer is better at punching, concentrated on it, and beat/KO’d the other opponent who used his legs more. And there’s just a huge disparity in the punching skills, techniques, timing, footwork/movement, defense, etc. between boxer and a kickboxer. And in kickboxing, punches still far outnumber kicks and the majority of flush hits and KOs are still generated by a punch (more natural, more accurate, and more compact). With Boxers being masters at this (head and body attack) along with other superior skills mentioned above, I believe many boxers can beat/KO a kickboxer, even if they allow leg shots.

Anyhow, on a different note, you mentioned Ali a few posts back. My dad was a big Ali fan, and I was a huge Tyson fan. It was Ali, followed by Holmes, and then Tyson who last dominated the heavyweight division.

Here’s a couple of clips, if you haven’t seen it already. Too bad how Tyson turned out. He was simply the most exciting and devastating fighter to put on gloves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMrYmshl82Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp7vfsQNfj4
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:56 am
Though I respect the speed of hands of boxers and do think that that is a real advantage in a fight against anyone, the fact that they don't know any defense against any attacks to their legs is a major disadvantage. Fact is, many of the kickboxing fights I have seen either end in knees or kicks that KO the opponent. Kickboxers are great at kicking to the legs and causing major injury that way. As far as real fighting goes, boxing is just outmatched but should be known as the master art of punching.

As far as the best boxer ever - Mike Tyson was just an animal! He just blasted his opponents unlike anyone ever
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:41 pm
That’s true, but it also depends on the boxer. Leg shots are effective, but with familiarity & training, I believe a boxer can learn to minimize the hits, time it, and counter it (or even dish it back, if that's the case). There are different styles between boxers, and a slick boxer or boxer-puncher (with excellent footwork and lateral movement) is not a stationary target and usually very difficult to locate, let alone hit. They like to give different looks and feints to confuse the opponents and set them up for shots. They will get hit with kicks, that’s for sure—and if they can’t deal with it, they will lose or get stopped. Whether it’s a slick boxer, boxer-puncher, pure puncher, or a brawler, their mission is to time and counter every shot and end the match quickly with their superior punching arsenal to the head or body. That’s why I mention that this is subjective. By the way, again, most kickboxing matches I’ve seen have ended in punches.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:26 pm
Put Tito Ortiz (in his prime) in the octagon against Mike Tyson (in his prime) and Tito's getting knocked the **** out.

That's all I gotta say about the issue.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:29 pm
32 wrote:Put Tito Ortiz (in his prime) in the octagon against Mike Tyson (in his prime) and Tito's getting knocked the **** out.

That's all I gotta say about the issue.


So succinct and so eloquently put, 32. :D
Can you imagine Tyson using those little 4 oz. gloves! HOLY ****! That's like giving him a Howitzer to blow the guy's head off, point blank. It'll be like the ‘ol, "What color was Tito's eyes when Tyson blasted him?
Blue! One blew this way, the other blew another way.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:22 pm
About 14 years ago, Rickson Gracie (best fighter of the legendary Gracie Jiu Jitsu family), put the call to fight Tyson in freestyle fighting contest. Tyson said no ofcourse. Rickson gracie was not much of a striker either and not the allround fighter the great UFC fighters today are.

Point is, Tyson would have to get in super quick for a punch because all the MMA fighter would have to do is shoot in, take him to the ground and it would be a laugher that would end in 2 seconds with Tyson screaming in pain of having his arm or leg hyperextended.

Again, boxing is good and has its place as a sport but in real fighting, it is limited
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:02 pm
Is this a fact? Because about 14 years ago, Tyson was in the middle of serving time in prison and entrenched in legal battles. Not only would it be impossible, it would be the last thing on his mind.

Also, wasn’t Rickson criticized for ducking a lot of legit fighters?

And, yeah, Tyson can KO someone super quick, especially if they’re not boxers—and with those gloves, at that!
If they shoot in, they’ll just eat an uppercut they’ll never see. So, yeah, it would end in the ground in a laugher, alright.

Like I said, it depends on the boxer. It may appear that they just have one sword. But look at the size/power of that sword!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:41 pm
About Rickson - He did say no to some fighters but (as far as he said) it was because they were not good enough to go against him. He did go against some very tough fighters of the time but to be honest, he would get spamked nowadyas because the best fighters now have the total package.

As far as a great boxer uppercutting a fighter who is shooting in for the take down - Have you seen proper take downs? To uppercut the guy going for the take down you have to get close to the ground and that is not what boxers do. Go for the legs and it is over, take the easy way out.

I know you like boxing but you aren't looking at things objectively. An alround fighter has too many weapons for a boxer, plain and simple
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:10 pm
I read that Rickson only fought people he knew he could beat and dodged other legit contenders. And that thing with Tyson was probably a hoax started by someone due to the reasons I stated.

A boxer is adept at bending and dodging, so they can throw low shots, if necessary. A proper takedown is done in a short range and usually set-up by some half-ass punches for distraction. With quick reflexes and timing, Tyson would have straight wacked him coming in with an uppercut or a hook. If he came in too low, he’ll be on the ground by himself, for a boxer has great anticipation, footwork and lateral movement. He would have to try again (higher) and get knocked out.

I know you're not into boxing, but as for being objective, I have been by saying all along that "it depends on the boxer," but it can be done. You are the one who is not looking at things objectively by not acknowledging that a boxer can beat another person who employ other techniques. That’s simply not true, especially in real fights! Just look at how many KOs there are in MMA via fists. Not all fights end in the ground—even if a grappler intends it to. And Butterbean, for one, is a boxer (style) and has a 10-3 record in MMA. Try that on for size.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:45 am
The reason why MMA fights end more with KOs due to strikes is because firstly, fighters have taken to striking more and fighters don't like the chess match that jiu jitsu and ground fighting is. The young fighters coming out now just don't want to work on the ground as much and would rather stay standing up, move around and exchange shots until one of the two fighters finds an opening.

A real take down is going for the knees and taking the guy to the ground that way! You take a kick boxer around the waste if you are weary of the front kick. A boxer has no defense for a take down at the knees and that would be an easy target. Some wrestlers have even showed that moving in quickly, at standing height, while protecting yourself with your arms well, closing the distance and grabbing the opponent works. You just have to close the distance and no effect punch can be delivered, it is all over for the striker then. A boxer would not only have to be super quick and strong, he would also have to be super lucky to avoid the grappler closing the distance. As I've said a few times now, a boxer can be a devastating striker but he has major weaknesses that can easily be exploited.

As far as pretty good fighters of different arts going against each other - I admit that I am very athletic and lean, yet not too big, but I went against an old friend of mine who I hadn't seen in some 8 years (he is a kickboxer and has been for some 10 years) and he laughed at me when I told him during our conversation that a jiu jitsu fighter (one that is pretty average) can defeat a pretty good kick boxer. We went back to his house and start playing around with some fighting drills in his sparring room and though I practice a bit of kick boxing myself, when I went to take him to the ground, I succeed pretty easily. He is bigger and stronger but just had no weapons once I got him off balance. He even tried a number of times to strike me, be it with a punch, kick, elbow or knee (not at full strength but about 80% at least) but I protected myself enough to close the distance and then take him to the ground. I got smacked on some of them but once I grabbed him, I took him to the ground and then played with him by messing with armlocks, some ankle locks and chokes. Pretty sure he wil join my jiu jitsu club very soon
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:19 pm
I don't understand migya. What you've proved throughout these posts is that pretty much a boxer is too one-dimensional to face up against an MMA fighter. A proper takedown? Can a MMA fighter take a proper haymaker? Please explain a bit more.

Great topic here guys, way to keep it going.
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