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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 9:06 am
Accardo's doing the same as he always did! He's inconsistent; he'll either strike out the side, or he'll walk 2 batters and toss a meatball over the ball.

So far, he hasn't given up any runs this season... but wait for the other shoe to drop. He's only pitched 20 innings, so far this season. I give the guy credit: he's starting the season hot, with 21 K's and only 6 BB's... but give him until the All-Star Break.

I was never a believer in Jeremy Accardo. Some guys have good stuff, but they're a little green. You can see it with Sanchez, Lincecum's first game, or Matt Cain last season. But Accardo just had NO control. None. I wasn't mad about getting Hillenbrand for him; I was mad that the Giants didn't resign Hillenbrand (who, in my mind, is somebody that could have been in our 3, 5, or 6 spot for the next 5 years).
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:28 am
32 wrote:Accardo's doing the same as he always did! He's inconsistent; he'll either strike out the side, or he'll walk 2 batters and toss a meatball over the ball.

So far, he hasn't given up any runs this season... but wait for the other shoe to drop. He's only pitched 20 innings, so far this season. I give the guy credit: he's starting the season hot, with 21 K's and only 6 BB's... but give him until the All-Star Break.

I was never a believer in Jeremy Accardo. Some guys have good stuff, but they're a little green. You can see it with Sanchez, Lincecum's first game, or Matt Cain last season. But Accardo just had NO control. None. I wasn't mad about getting Hillenbrand for him; I was mad that the Giants didn't resign Hillenbrand (who, in my mind, is somebody that could have been in our 3, 5, or 6 spot for the next 5 years).


I agree, Accardo never really showed me much. He was consistently inconsistent. No one who have predicted that outcome and I would give up the same trade today. However, I sure hope Sabean won't giv eup on the two Phenoms. BTW, yes we DO have two phenoms, don't forget Cain is actually YOUNGER than Lincecum. We do play in a pitchers ball park so give the money to them.

Notes:
-Fred Lewis is a keeper, I expect him to start next year
-Molina has been our best hitter this year int he clutch... Excellent pick-up
-Pedro Feliz is actually playing very very good this season
-Sanchez, Wilson, Tasehner, Hennessey is the future of our BP
-BENETIZ --> trade him , while he has been solid, he scares me everytime he takes the mound...
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:55 am
~W~ wrote:-Sanchez, Wilson, Tasehner, Hennessey is the future of our BP

:shock: Ugh... that whole lineup, sans Sanchez, just depresses me.

We need better relievers!
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:12 pm
32 wrote:
~W~ wrote:-Sanchez, Wilson, Tasehner, Hennessey is the future of our BP

:shock: Ugh... that whole lineup, sans Sanchez, just depresses me.

We need better relievers!


No worries, Zito, Cain, Linecum, Lowry should take us 7-8 innings every night. This just leave one inning for our 4 relievers...
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 5:17 pm
~W~ wrote:
32 wrote:
~W~ wrote:-Sanchez, Wilson, Tasehner, Hennessey is the future of our BP

:shock: Ugh... that whole lineup, sans Sanchez, just depresses me.

We need better relievers!


No worries, Zito, Cain, Linecum, Lowry should take us 7-8 innings every night. This just leave one inning for our 4 relievers...

Either Lowry or Ortiz is being sent to the pen.

While I'm sure it'll end up being Ortiz, I think the smarter choice might be Lowry. I'd love to see us turn Noah Lowry from a so-so starter into a Doug Turnow, 7-8-inning kinda guy. Lowry's stuff should be good enough to sit down at least 2 innings worth of batters. That way, when Matt Morris or Russ Ortiz are pitching and can't get past 6 innings, we send in Noah Lowry and he finishes the game like a pro. It's like having 2 starter-worthy pitchers throw the game. Imagine a combination of Matt Morris' best stuff and Noah Lowry's fresh stuff... it sounds great to me.

Lowry's stuff is too finese to be closing material... but I'd love to see him as a 6, 7, or 8 inning reliever. He'd get plenty of innings to pitch (pretty much, every game) and we might shoot his trade value up (since everyone knows he can start).
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 6:47 pm
32 wrote:
~W~ wrote:
32 wrote:
~W~ wrote:-Sanchez, Wilson, Tasehner, Hennessey is the future of our BP

:shock: Ugh... that whole lineup, sans Sanchez, just depresses me.

We need better relievers!


No worries, Zito, Cain, Linecum, Lowry should take us 7-8 innings every night. This just leave one inning for our 4 relievers...

Either Lowry or Ortiz is being sent to the pen.

While I'm sure it'll end up being Ortiz, I think the smarter choice might be Lowry. I'd love to see us turn Noah Lowry from a so-so starter into a Doug Turnow, 7-8-inning kinda guy. Lowry's stuff should be good enough to sit down at least 2 innings worth of batters. That way, when Matt Morris or Russ Ortiz are pitching and can't get past 6 innings, we send in Noah Lowry and he finishes the game like a pro. It's like having 2 starter-worthy pitchers throw the game. Imagine a combination of Matt Morris' best stuff and Noah Lowry's fresh stuff... it sounds great to me.

Lowry's stuff is too finese to be closing material... but I'd love to see him as a 6, 7, or 8 inning reliever. He'd get plenty of innings to pitch (pretty much, every game) and we might shoot his trade value up (since everyone knows he can start).


Zito, Cain, Morris, Ortiz, Lincecum. That should be our starting rotation. If the A's could convince Eckersly to become their closer, the Giants can convince Lowry to be our late innings worker. That's be great, but if the Giants are serious about Lowry getting traded I seriously doubt it'll happen.
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 7:01 pm
Yes, but then they need to choose once or the other: either you trade Lowry while his value is high, or you get him the **** outta the starting rotation. They can't just leave him there when there are obviously better pitchers capable of snagging his spot.
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:53 pm
you'd be a fool to keep ortiz or morris long term over lowry. trade lowry trade lowry... for what? a rental hitter? **** no! like a said a young hitter with equal talent ok... otherwise **** no! i see a lot of ignorant giants fans in here, im not going to name any names.

as far as accardo goes... he's done great so far yes, he's young which is part of the reason he is inconsistent yes. we got chumps in return for an electric arm boooooooooooooooo... thats my freakin point! i didnt like the trade at the time, i certainly dont like it now, considering hillenbrand was **** plus he left for nothing, and we got an underachiever in cholk, for a once again, young, electric arm who could turn into another joe nathan for all we know? probably not, but who knows? i know what vinnie chulk has to offer...

keep the mutha fuckin pitching.
"Losing is inevitably close to winning," Guber said. "They're inches apart. Drama. If you have drama, you've got a ticket to sell." "They're not real fans," Lacob said. "They don't have season tickets."

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:00 pm
32 wrote:Yes, but then they need to choose once or the other: either you trade Lowry while his value is high, or you get him the **** outta the starting rotation. They can't just leave him there when there are obviously better pitchers capable of snagging his spot.


wtf? he's 5-4 with a 2.69 ERA, no run support whatsover, best start to a season in his career... ok so you say hot start, his value is high...but your saying get him in the pen, there are better alternatives ? like who? lincecum is already here??? who has a better ERA in the giants rotation right now? for pete's sake.. leave the starting pitching alone, its the best ****ing thing we have!
"Losing is inevitably close to winning," Guber said. "They're inches apart. Drama. If you have drama, you've got a ticket to sell." "They're not real fans," Lacob said. "They don't have season tickets."

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:20 pm
IMO, dont touch Lowry unless you get a starting everyday player. As a matter of fact, if anyone should go, it should either be Morris or Ortiz. BTW, I love Morris, by far our most consistent pitcher this year but in terms of age, both Morris and Ortiz is should go before Lowry.

Honestly, Giants starting pitching has been perhaps the most exciting thing this season. Every time they go out, they are capable of going 7 strong innings.
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:55 pm
ChronicallyInclined wrote:you'd be a fool to keep ortiz or morris long term over lowry. trade lowry trade lowry... for what? a rental hitter? **** no! like a said a young hitter with equal talent ok... otherwise **** no! i see a lot of ignorant giants fans in here, im not going to name any names.

as far as accardo goes... he's done great so far yes, he's young which is part of the reason he is inconsistent yes. we got chumps in return for an electric arm boooooooooooooooo... thats my freakin point! i didnt like the trade at the time, i certainly dont like it now, considering hillenbrand was **** plus he left for nothing, and we got an underachiever in cholk, for a once again, young, electric arm who could turn into another joe nathan for all we know? probably not, but who knows? i know what vinnie chulk has to offer...

keep the mutha fuckin pitching.

I think this is funny. You wanna keep Noah Lowry purely because he's young... and the Joe Nathan trade screwed you up so bad, you're gun shy to trade another young arm.

Noah Lowry is a C-level pitcher. He's good. Not great, but good. 3rd or 4th spot in the rotation. That's not bad. But, unlike Cain, Sanchez, or Lincecum, Noah Lowry doesn't look like he's getting better. His ERA shot up to 4.74 last year (where he lost 10 games). If you're not a strikeout pitcher (and Lowry's definately not), you need to keep your ERA hovering around 3. Lowry can't do that. And before you start going off on how he's at 2.69 right now, bear in mind: the season's not even halfway over yet.

This sounds a helluva lot like the Monta Ellis argument; where fans are clinging to these young prospects as if they were sure bets. Well Lowry's had 5 seasons to prove he's a "sure bet". And, thus far, other than his 6-0 start in 2004, Lowry's proven to be a mediocre pitcher. Like I said, not great... but good.

The thing that's bothering me is that you're acting like Lowry's not replaceable. If you ask me, throwing Lincecum into the rotation and yanking Lowry wouldn't bother me AT ALL. Besides, if we can get a young, powerful infielder in exchange for Lowry, than why not? That's what the Giants have been looking for FOREVER. Its the reason the Hillenbrand trade even went down. Its the reason Pedro Feliz is still on our roster. Its the reason they haven't given up on Lance Niekro yet. The Giants want a powerful 1st or 3rd baseman. They can get it... using Lowry.

If you're opposed to trading Lowry for a 1st or 3rd baseman that would solve our needs for a consistent 3 or 5 spot hitter, then I dunno what to tell you. You just don't want the team to get better, I guess.
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:22 pm
-32-

I agree that if you can get a starting 1st or 3rd baseman for Lowry, sure go for it. But not for some journeyman, and def not for a rent a player. You are right, Lowry is at best a 3rd or 4th pitcher but we don't need him to be top 3 in our rotation, or top 4... as of right now he is the 5th pitcher on our rotation and for a 5th starter, he is no chump.

The thing is, you acknowledge the fact that Lowry is simply not that good, C+ Pitcher, so what makes you think we can get a powerful 1st or 3rd baseman??? So trade him for a C+ hitter? because we have plenty of those on our team...
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:46 pm
Lowry is defintely not going to leave for another Shea Hillenbrand. But on the other note, Lowry is a C-level pitcher, but there are teams out there that think more of that. There are teams that are in desperate needs for a pitcher and they'll take a quality pitcher such as Lowry with all the injuries they've sustained.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:50 pm
i dont know why ppl are labeling lowry as a C level pitcher already. he came in for 6 starts in 04 right.. 05, 06, that is only 2 plus years of major league pitching experience! and for a control pitcher, you can bet that experience is the most important thing of all! power arms like cain and lincecum can get away with lack of experience with stuff. control pitchers like lowry cant, he has to learn as much as he can! there is no reason in my mind why lowry cant become a poor mans tom glavine, and i'll take that in the 3rd slot of my rotation any day.

as far as trade talks go? like i said, if we get a young hitter ok fine, i can work with that, like a francouer type. but NOT for some dude who wont be around for more than a year or 2!
"Losing is inevitably close to winning," Guber said. "They're inches apart. Drama. If you have drama, you've got a ticket to sell." "They're not real fans," Lacob said. "They don't have season tickets."
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:32 am
The only reason I'm talking trades, when it comes to Lowry, is because, you're right, the pitching HAS done it's job this season... but how many gems has Matt Cain lost this year due to a lack of run support?

The Giants have one A-list hitter, and that's Bonds (whose getting walked like its 2001 again). Aside from Barry, everyone else (Duram, Aurillia, Molina, ect) are all 2nd tier hitters, at best. Pedro Feliz has no discipline. Ray Duram and Randy Winn have both fallen off. Nobody on the team will get 100 RBI's this season. What if we could trade for somebody that would?

In order for the Giants to return to the top of the division, they need to pair another power hitter with Bonds. San Fransisco's been missing that 1-2 punch ever since Jeff Kent left for the Astros. If we can aquire a good RBI hitter in exchange for a pitcher package, then why not? Its not like we're short on prospects... and teams won't trade good hitters for Morris or Ortiz. Noah Lowry is one of our more attractive pitchers, trade-wise. Why not exploit that to get better?

I'm looking for a 4th or 5th spot batter to clean up behind Bonds and make other teams think twice before walking him. Right now, teams have no fear of walking Bonds because our hitters are all spotty. In the beginning of the season, Duram did well... then it was Aurillia... after that, Klesko got hot... and now Bengie Molina's smacking out clutch RBI's all the time, but none of them are that consistent threat that we need.

If we could land, for instance, Morgan Ensberg for a package of Lowry, Pedro Feliz, and Steve Kline... then why not? Houston's got no shortage of good hitters (Berkman, Carlos Lee, Biggio, Mark Loretta, ect). If, somehow, we could aquire Ensberg for a package headlined by Lowry, I wouldn't think twice about it.
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