Nelly's view on our defense

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:39 pm
Here are his comments after the Hawks debacle.

"You can't say our defense is good, but it is what it is," coach Don Nelson said. "There isn't anything a practice is going to do. This is it. So we have to work our way out of this together and probably in a game.

"Hopefully, in the next one would be a good idea."


I can't tell if he's given up, disinterested or totally clueless about what to do about our defense.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:44 pm
You did a double thread, jsw548, so I've erased the other one.

Now, on topic, Nellie sounds resigned to his fate. The defense pretty much sucks, and seems like he feels it's a personnel problem. Other than trades, doesn't look like he has an answer, from those comments.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:49 pm
Nellie must understand that defense is about man principles, zone principles, help defense principles, etc. rather than just athletic ability. Does he think they are just going to miraculously get better?

He needs to spend some practice time drilling the players what to do in each different situations. This is a must. If they do not have time to practice on this trip, he needs to take the players aside on the plane, etc and teach them how to play defense.

As I have said in the past, if Nelson continues to not care about the defense and display a laissez-faire attitude in the press and with the team, he is not going to get this team to play defense. It is that simple.

If he does not care about improving the defense, I am sure the team does not either and the evidence is on the court.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:41 pm
Defense is never going to be the strong suit of this Golden State team. It's not Richardson's forte, it's not Baron's, it's not Al's, it's not Monta's... and, right now, that's who the team's built around.

Unless you want to start completely over, with just Stephen Jackson and Biedrins, than I'm in agreement with Nelly. Play to your strengths. The defense will never be stellar; some nights will be better than others. But working on it won't dramatically help. The offense is where this team thrives, so it's best to help integrate Al and SJax ASAP (not to mention, get Richardson back) to maximize our talent's production.

10 games from now, you'll see the true Warriors. Al and Stephen will be integrated, Jason will be back at 100%, and Baron won't need to carry us so far. That Warrior squad has the potential to be a dangerous.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:12 pm
I understand defense is not this team's strength, but that does not mean you can't attempt to make it better. What is wrong with devoting some practice time and meeting time with Nellie discussing and teaching defense?

It is one thing to have a few bad defensive plays a game, but to have two complete games of highway defense in the lane and on the perimeter, that is uncalled for. Something needs to change.

It is funny how people just look past these last two games and how they think the Warriors will get back to their winning ways in x-amount of days. The bottom line is this, if they do not defend at all and don't rebound as well, THIS TEAM WILL NOT WIN MUCH AT ALL.

The Warriors may win a good chunk of their games at home, but to be a playoff team you need to do better than 4-15 on the road. The reason they have struggled on the road is bad defense and lousy rebounding.

Bad defense can be attributed to laziness, carelessness and lack of motivation and practice time needed to compete night and night out on that side of the court. It is a complete joke right now.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:09 pm
#32 wrote:Defense is never going to be the strong suit of this Golden State team. It's not Richardson's forte, it's not Baron's, it's not Al's, it's not Monta's... and, right now, that's who the team's built around.

Unless you want to start completely over, with just Stephen Jackson and Biedrins, than I'm in agreement with Nelly. Play to your strengths. The defense will never be stellar; some nights will be better than others. But working on it won't dramatically help. The offense is where this team thrives, so it's best to help integrate Al and SJax ASAP (not to mention, get Richardson back) to maximize our talent's production.

10 games from now, you'll see the true Warriors. Al and Stephen will be integrated, Jason will be back at 100%, and Baron won't need to carry us so far. That Warrior squad has the potential to be a dangerous.


Whenever you write stuff like this I have to remind myself that you are a pickup game player. This style of play is exactly what you see on any given playground. No defense, no rebounding, just a bunch of ball hogs running and gunning with no concept of team. Oh, and don't forget all the posturizing, excuse making and hacking to your hearts content. I forgive you #32, you are getting the exact style of play you love so why shouldn't you be happy as hell right now. I apologize for trying to wreck a beautiful thing for you. Shame on me.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:23 pm
jsw548 wrote:Whenever you write stuff like this I have to remind myself that you are a pickup game player. This style of play is exactly what you see on any given playground. No defense, no rebounding, just a bunch of ball hogs running and gunning with no concept of team. Oh, and don't forget all the posturizing, excuse making and hacking to your hearts content. I forgive you #32, you are getting the exact style of play you love so why shouldn't you be happy as hell right now. I apologize for trying to wreck a beautiful thing for you. Shame on me.

:-s

JSW, are you pissed because nobody listens to you anymore? Here's a hint: don't start a panic thread everytime the team goes on a 2-game slide and you might salvage some of your credibility. Until then, there's no need to piss and moan like you've got a sand-encrusted stick shoved in your vagina. Your bitching never ceases to amaze me: first it's Monty, then it's Dunleavy and Murphy, now it's the team's defense? Newsflash: there will ALWAYS be at least ONE thing wrong with the Warriors (just like any other team). Somehow, I doubt whatever product the Warriors put out would yeild any praise from you, nancy. Have a nice time sitting in your puddle.

Now, onto somebody with a real opinion...

ChicagoTom wrote:I understand defense is not this team's strength, but that does not mean you can't attempt to make it better. What is wrong with devoting some practice time and meeting time with Nellie discussing and teaching defense?

It is one thing to have a few bad defensive plays a game, but to have two complete games of highway defense in the lane and on the perimeter, that is uncalled for. Something needs to change.

It is funny how people just look past these last two games and how they think the Warriors will get back to their winning ways in x-amount of days. The bottom line is this, if they do not defend at all and don't rebound as well, THIS TEAM WILL NOT WIN MUCH AT ALL.

The Warriors may win a good chunk of their games at home, but to be a playoff team you need to do better than 4-15 on the road. The reason they have struggled on the road is bad defense and lousy rebounding.

Bad defense can be attributed to laziness, carelessness and lack of motivation and practice time needed to compete night and night out on that side of the court. It is a complete joke right now.

The Golden State Warriors are not one of the league's better defensive teams. Therefore, they can either (a) do what many other teams are doing now and play to their strengths... or (b) blow up the team core and rebuild for another 4 years (at least). Personally, I'm tired of rebuilding.

There's a reason the Warriors are in the hunt for the playoffs; they can be an amazing team on some nights. How many big-win teams have the Warriors have put down this season, alone? Utah? San Antonio? Detroit? The Rockets? The Mavericks? Aren't all of those teams defensively sound?

The Warriors can compete with any team on any given night... but it goes both ways. They can take out the Spurs by nearly 10 points... but they can also get beaten by the Hawks. That means the team's focus is the problem. Anytime there's such a huge swing in performance, it has to do with focus. Look at Charlotte. That team has a lot of great pieces (Morrison the scorer, Knight the playmaker, Wallace the perimeter defense, Okafor the whole f'n inside), but they're inexperienced, so their record is spotty. Golden State is the same thing.

The Warriors have a psychological problem winning on the road, so far. If they can kick that, they'll be tough to beat. It's like the free throw problem. Some nights, they shoot amazingly. Some nights, they can't buy a free throw. It's all in their heads.

This team can blow some easy ones, but it can also surprise the contenders. That means there's talent on this roster and I think it'd be a horrible idea to blow it up prematurely.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:47 pm
#32 wrote:The Golden State Warriors are not one of the league's better defensive teams. Therefore, they can either (a) do what many other teams are doing now and play to their strengths... or (b) blow up the team core and rebuild for another 4 years (at least). Personally, I'm tired of rebuilding.

There's a reason the Warriors are in the hunt for the playoffs; they can be an amazing team on some nights. How many big-win teams have the Warriors have put down this season, alone? Utah? San Antonio? Detroit? The Rockets? The Mavericks? Aren't all of those teams defensively sound?

The Warriors can compete with any team on any given night... but it goes both ways. They can take out the Spurs by nearly 10 points... but they can also get beaten by the Hawks. That means the team's focus is the problem. Anytime there's such a huge swing in performance, it has to do with focus. Look at Charlotte. That team has a lot of great pieces (Morrison the scorer, Knight the playmaker, Wallace the perimeter defense, Okafor the whole f'n inside), but they're inexperienced, so their record is spotty. Golden State is the same thing.

The Warriors have a psychological problem winning on the road, so far. If they can kick that, they'll be tough to beat. It's like the free throw problem. Some nights, they shoot amazingly. Some nights, they can't buy a free throw. It's all in their heads.

This team can blow some easy ones, but it can also surprise the contenders. That means there's talent on this roster and I think it'd be a horrible idea to blow it up prematurely.

I am not suggesting the Warriors blow up the team and fire the coach, I would just like to see some more effort from the players on the floor and coaches on the bench to play some defense.

Perhaps I am naive and old school, but a good chunk of playing good defense is working hard, playing determined and understanding the basic schemes of the team defense. I can live with the Warriors getting their tails kicked in from time to time, but not the way they did these past two games. They are better than that and we all know that.

Perhaps there is a mental block when the team goes on the road, but if the team gave a rat's ass about playing defense, those inconsistent shooting nights and lousy fast break nights could be minimalized with an average defense that at least stops the ball and does not allow easy shot after easy shot.

Quite simply, some effort and energy on the defensive end would be appreciated. If the Warriors still get hammered, at least I can sleep at night knowing they gave it all they had not just offensively, but defensively as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:06 pm
#32 wrote:
jsw548 wrote:Whenever you write stuff like this I have to remind myself that you are a pickup game player. This style of play is exactly what you see on any given playground. No defense, no rebounding, just a bunch of ball hogs running and gunning with no concept of team. Oh, and don't forget all the posturizing, excuse making and hacking to your hearts content. I forgive you #32, you are getting the exact style of play you love so why shouldn't you be happy as hell right now. I apologize for trying to wreck a beautiful thing for you. Shame on me.





JSW, are you pissed because nobody listens to you anymore? Here's a hint: don't start a panic thread everytime the team goes on a 2-game slide and you might salvage some of your credibility. Until then, there's no need to piss and moan like you've got a sand-encrusted stick shoved in your vagina. Your bitching never ceases to amaze me: first it's Monty, then it's Dunleavy and Murphy, now it's the team's defense? Newsflash: there will ALWAYS be at least ONE thing wrong with the Warriors (just like any other team). Somehow, I doubt whatever product the Warriors put out would yeild any praise from you, nancy. Have a nice time sitting in your puddle.


C'mon #32, there's no need to go ballistic. I've never complained about Murph, Monty or Mike D. If you go back and look I stayed out of all of those never ending arguments. I bitch more about team concepts and basic basketball. I'm sure we can disagree with each other without the schoolyard name calling.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:40 pm
ChicagoTom wrote:Perhaps I am naive and old school, but a good chunk of playing good defense is working hard, playing determined and understanding the basic schemes of the team defense. I can live with the Warriors getting their tails kicked in from time to time, but not the way they did these past two games. They are better than that and we all know that.

Quite simply, some effort and energy on the defensive end would be appreciated. If the Warriors still get hammered, at least I can sleep at night knowing they gave it all they had not just offensively, but defensively as well.


I can't pinpoint it..is it a lack of desire? lack of heart? not taking pride in stopping your man? not grasping whatever team defensive philosophies are being implemented? is it because our guards are forever helping down in the low post - as we're always out-sized and out-muscled - and when we recover to the perimeter we're basically dead ducks, vulnerable to the penetration-kick offense? i just really don't know.

i certainly think we have the athleticism and length...at least in reference to the perimeter.

i really believe we're playing as good a defense as we're capable of...seriously.

i honestly think the lack of an interior defense just puts too much pressure on the perimeter players (which is just about the entire team) and it has a serious snowball effect...

when we're constantly scrambling, helping, recovering, and double-teaming, the extra pass on offense will usually find the open man...not to mention the fact that everyone loses there rebounding assignments, hence 2nd and 3rd off. chances.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:55 pm
so is nellie tryin to say, "man murphlevy were really good at defense"?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:35 pm
aletha33 wrote:
ChicagoTom wrote:Perhaps I am naive and old school, but a good chunk of playing good defense is working hard, playing determined and understanding the basic schemes of the team defense. I can live with the Warriors getting their tails kicked in from time to time, but not the way they did these past two games. They are better than that and we all know that.

Quite simply, some effort and energy on the defensive end would be appreciated. If the Warriors still get hammered, at least I can sleep at night knowing they gave it all they had not just offensively, but defensively as well.


I can't pinpoint it..is it a lack of desire? lack of heart? not taking pride in stopping your man? not grasping whatever team defensive philosophies are being implemented? is it because our guards are forever helping down in the low post - as we're always out-sized and out-muscled - and when we recover to the perimeter we're basically dead ducks, vulnerable to the penetration-kick offense? i just really don't know.

i certainly think we have the athleticism and length...at least in reference to the perimeter.

i really believe we're playing as good a defense as we're capable of...seriously.

i honestly think the lack of an interior defense just puts too much pressure on the perimeter players (which is just about the entire team) and it has a serious snowball effect...

when we're constantly scrambling, helping, recovering, and double-teaming, the extra pass on offense will usually find the open man...not to mention the fact that everyone loses there rebounding assignments, hence 2nd and 3rd off. chances.


It's called coaching and playing zone defense, two problems that this team has.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:13 pm
jsw548 wrote:C'mon #32, there's no need to go ballistic. I've never complained about Murph, Monty or Mike D. If you go back and look I stayed out of all of those never ending arguments. I bitch more about team concepts and basic basketball. I'm sure we can disagree with each other without the schoolyard name calling.

I've said many times on this forum; an insult doesn't need foul language to be offensive. Read your previous comment you left, directed and me, and tell me it's not offense.

"Oh yeah, #32, I forgot... you're a pickup baller who knows nothing of rebounding or defense."

:roll: Please. Don't play the victim and act like my post came out of nowhere.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:00 am
uptempo wrote:
aletha33 wrote:
ChicagoTom wrote:Perhaps I am naive and old school, but a good chunk of playing good defense is working hard, playing determined and understanding the basic schemes of the team defense. I can live with the Warriors getting their tails kicked in from time to time, but not the way they did these past two games. They are better than that and we all know that.

Quite simply, some effort and energy on the defensive end would be appreciated. If the Warriors still get hammered, at least I can sleep at night knowing they gave it all they had not just offensively, but defensively as well.


I can't pinpoint it..is it a lack of desire? lack of heart? not taking pride in stopping your man? not grasping whatever team defensive philosophies are being implemented? is it because our guards are forever helping down in the low post - as we're always out-sized and out-muscled - and when we recover to the perimeter we're basically dead ducks, vulnerable to the penetration-kick offense? i just really don't know.

i certainly think we have the athleticism and length...at least in reference to the perimeter.

i really believe we're playing as good a defense as we're capable of...seriously.

i honestly think the lack of an interior defense just puts too much pressure on the perimeter players (which is just about the entire team) and it has a serious snowball effect...

when we're constantly scrambling, helping, recovering, and double-teaming, the extra pass on offense will usually find the open man...not to mention the fact that everyone loses there rebounding assignments, hence 2nd and 3rd off. chances.


It's called coaching and playing zone defense, two problems that this team has.


It’s the zone; it's really stinking bad. Like Steve Smith said on the telecast, it has a tendency to make people lazy on D. In seeing that game against the Hawks, we had no pressure on the shooters—absolutely zero. And they drove through the gaps like we were standing still. When they volleyballed the ball cross-court, the whole zone would follow, just following the ball, leaving an open man, ultimately and frequently. It wasn’t until the Hawks were up by 18 with 67 points already racked up when Nelly went to man-to-man, finally. We played good ball man-to man-at the start of the 3rd, and the guys felt like weights have been lifted off their backs. But then again we went back to zone, then back to man, and back and forth until the guys we’re pretty much confused on what scheme they were playing. Hella confusing, but was still a bit better, for we held them to 45 points in the second half after spotting them 70 in the first half.

I want to see all zone the rest of the roadgames. We have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. We have to turn these guys lose, and I know these guys can play much better, more aggressive, in-your-grill D. We’ll be sooo much better with this athletic and talented group now, and it's the only way to make the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:21 am
Statistically, the ws are the worst defensive team in the league. This is not a shock - Nelson has always been a small ball, high octane fast-breaker and pretty indifferent to defense. (Remember the Mavs of a few years back?) They live and die by the transition game (lead the league in fast break points) and hitting a decent percentage of 3s. With the offense in typical gear, they would have beat Atlanta and maybe even given Cleveland a run, but the reality is, this team gets killed on the boards and considers it a good night if they hold a team to 108 points. And the truth is, when they do that, they will win 7 or 8 out of 10 games, since they can easily score that much. I still think the offense we saw the last 2 games was some kind of aberration, but the defense was not. I understand what you are saying, Chi-Tom, but expecting Nelson to start focusing on defense is like expecting Van Gundy to let the horses run. Nelson ball is what it is, high scoring, no defense and usually entertaining.
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