Game Thread: Warriors @ Los Angeles Lakers 2007-01

Talk about the upcoming Warriors game here

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Can the Warriors handle the Lakers?

YES
14
93%
NO
1
7%
 
Total votes : 15


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:23 am
Yet another one got away from the Warriors last night. This is another game we will all look back on in April when the Warriors do not make the playoffs and say we should have won.

This game along with the ones against the Cavs, Bucks, Pacers, Seattle and New Jersey come to mind when talking about games that the Warriors were in control of and somehow lost in the end.

Yes, this is a young team, but they need to figure out ways to win those games. It did not help that Baron was out the final 3+ minutes of the game. The Warriors could have used his on court guidance and leadership.

I did have a few observations:

1. Way too much one-on-one basketball from the Warriors. It seemed once someone got the ball, he was jacking it up or shooting a fadeaway. While Al did play well on the offensive end, it seems both he and Stephen Jackson are trying too hard to score and to prove themselves. They need to let the game come to them naturally.

2. Because of the Jackson and Al taking so many shots, others on the team like Monta, Biedrins, Pietrus and others are not getting the looks they normally would and there is no flow to the offense at all.

3. Monta needs to learn to move without the basketball. If he does not bring the ball up the court and create on his own, he is a non-factor offensively. He stands on the wing or in the corner and does nothing. He needs to learn to use screens and move around on the court to find scoring chances for himself.

4. The early returns on Jasikevicius are not good. Contrary to what some might think, I am not so convinced this run and gun style of play fits him. He seemed to be pressing a bit out there and he turned the ball over a few times and except for one shot in the final two minutes, did nothing offensively. I am hoping he has just had two of his not so good games and that he will get better. However, I am not convinced he will thrive in Nellie's system.

5. When big trades like this happen, it takes some time for new players to get acclimated with their new teammates. I think this is the case right now with the Warriors. The new players and older players are trying to mesh with one another and while we have seen some good things, we have seen some not so good things too. Unfortunately, the record is 0-2 with the new players. The next two games are home against New Jersey and Charlotte. These are MUST wins. If the Warriors lose both of these, bye bye playoffs.

6. The Clippers are now ahead of the Warriors. The time is now to start playing and getting a string of wins. If not, as mentioned in #5, the Warriors will NOT make the playoffs or even come close.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:28 am
ChicagoTom wrote:I did have a few observations:

1. Way too much one-on-one basketball from the Warriors. It seemed once someone got the ball, he was jacking it up or shooting a fadeaway. While Al did play well on the offensive end, it seems both he and Stephen Jackson are trying too hard to score and to prove themselves. They need to let the game come to them naturally.


Yeah, but that's easier said than done when they have barely practiced with the team. Give them a couple of weeks to get used to the system and the new teammates (and the rest of the roster to them)

ChicagoTom wrote:2. Because of the Jackson and Al taking so many shots, others on the team like Monta, Biedrins, Pietrus and others are not getting the looks they normally would and there is no flow to the offense at all.


True... but Al and Jax are better options than those. They just have to play a bit smarter. Realize when they can rely on teammates. In other words, they need to play together more.

I just wonder... what happened with Barnes? If anything, this guy has proven he's a good role player. Was he injured or something?. I'm not saying he should start... but he certainly should be part of the rotation.

ChicagoTom wrote:3. Monta needs to learn to move without the basketball. If he does not bring the ball up the court and create on his own, he is a non-factor offensively. He stands on the wing or in the corner and does nothing. He needs to learn to use screens and move around on the court to find scoring chances for himself.


Yeah, Monta is instant offense (if he's allowed to be)... but he needs to develop his game a bit more. For example, I still haven't seen anything that proves that he may be able to run a team. Looks like an improved version of Eddie House to me (not that that's a bad thing. House is pretty good at what he does... he's just a bit one-dimensional).

Best thing about Monta is his age. He's really good at some things (scoring) and has all the time in the world to develop his game and become a much better player overall. I really like his current role coming from the bench.

ChicagoTom wrote:4. The early returns on Jasikevicius are not good. Contrary to what some might think, I am not so convinced this run and gun style of play fits him. He seemed to be pressing a bit out there and he turned the ball over a few times and except for one shot in the final two minutes, did nothing offensively. I am hoping he has just had two of his not so good games and that he will get better. However, I am not convinced he will thrive in Nellie's system.


I'm not exactly convinced he's going to thrive, but he'll do well. And that's all we can ask for from a backup PG. The comparison here was McLeod...

ChicagoTom wrote:5. When big trades like this happen, it takes some time for new players to get acclimated with their new teammates. I think this is the case right now with the Warriors. The new players and older players are trying to mesh with one another and while we have seen some good things, we have seen some not so good things too. Unfortunately, the record is 0-2 with the new players. The next two games are home against New Jersey and Charlotte. These are MUST wins. If the Warriors lose both of these, bye bye playoffs.


It's a bit early to say that we won't have a chance at the playoffs if we lose them. It's gonna be tough... but that last spot is pretty open. We still have a chance if the team meshes well. We're playing against the Clips and Minny here... and we're perfectly able to surpass both of them. 43 can be enough to get into the playoffs.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:38 am
I agree with Chicago Tom - it's to much one-on-one plays, because Jackson and Harington are players of this style... I don't like this style, because this works only if you have basketball superstar as MJ, Lebron or Kobe in your team. Warriors must find other ways to defeat opponents in this league...

Jasikevicius had a good game with Cavs and not so good game with Lakers... He needs more playtime and more ball control on attacks, if you want good results - ball must two or three times reach Saras in one attack, then he can do incredible things - he can be leader and he can make other players better, i believe. Do you remember matches Lithuania-USA in Sydney or Athens??? Saras can play in the same level with NBA stars, if coach gives him chance and he can initiate ball movement. I'm bored (and many lithuanians too...), because Saras got only 11 minutes of playtime this match... but we understand, that Baron Davis is very good player - not very good situation for Saras, because he's not a real backup player... He was real leader in all teams before NBA. Yes, he is poor one-on-one defender, he can defend only in team defense good, i agree... but this player must play at least 20 minutes, if you want good play from Saras.

Jackson and Harrington are not very good teammates for Saras, Biedrins is better, for example... :)

And, finally - every playmaker needs time to know new teammates. Saras too...

(...Uh, English is so difficult language for me... but i can make progress here ;) )

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:13 am
Lituano wrote:Do you remember matches Lithuania-USA in Sydney or Athens??? Saras can play in the same level with NBA stars, if coach gives him chance and he can initiate ball movement. I'm bored (and many lithuanians too...), because Saras got only 11 minutes of playtime this match... but we understand, that Baron Davis is very good player - not very good situation for Saras, because he's not a real backup player... He was real leader in all teams before NBA.

If you and your fellow countrymen are expecting more playing time from Jasikevicius, I do not think it is going to happen. Not only is Baron Davis good, but the coaches are making a concerted effort to turn Monta Ellis, a young, up and comer, into a point guard.

I am not saying Jasikevicius can't contribute in some way, but do not expect him to play 35 minutes a night and score 14 a game. It is just not going to happen with this Warriors team.

Also, do not mix up the international game with the NBA. Success in European Championships and the Olympics, translates very little into the NBA game. From my observations, successul European teams on the club and country level excel at solid, team-oriented half court sets where they pass the ball and really work well as a team to find open shots for one another. It is fun to watch when it works, but the NBA is not like that. It is unfortunately more one-on-one creators and such.

In other words, I know Jasikevicius was great with Maccabi Tel-Aviv and also with Lithuania, but that means very little at this point in his NBA career. Look at Carlos Arroyo on the Magic. When he plays for Puerto Rico, he is nearly unstoppable. However, with the Magic, he is a role player. The game in the NBA is just different and what you have done in past leagues around the world, matters very little right in the NBA.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:20 am
TMC wrote:It's a bit early to say that we won't have a chance at the playoffs if we lose them. It's gonna be tough... but that last spot is pretty open. We still have a chance if the team meshes well. We're playing against the Clips and Minny here... and we're perfectly able to surpass both of them. 43 can be enough to get into the playoffs.

Perhaps I am jumping the gun a bit when I say if the Warriors lose their next two games they will not make the playoffs, but deep down, I think that is the case.

The Warriors are currently 19-23 and have lost three in a row. Of their next eight games, six of them are on the road on a long East Coast trip. Now, the Eastern Conference is not great, but the Warriors struggle on the road against all teams no matter what skill level.

So, the Warriors have 40 games left. 18 at home and 22 on the road. Including the upcoming trip out East, the Warriors have two long Eastern conference road trips that do not bode well in the big picture of making the playoffs.

I guess what I am saying is this.....if the Warriors have any chance of making it they first and foremost must win their home games, particularly against teams like the Nets and Bobcats in their next two.

They must claw back to .500 and go from there. Their schedule looks tough down the stretch with games at Houston, San Antonio and at home against Utah, Minnesota and Dallas in the last three weeks of the season.

The time is now to make a run for the playoffs. The Clippers are playing better and Minnesota is still hanging around. The Warriors have to mesh quickly and get it together AS A TEAM. This team has the talent to make the playoffs, but I am not sure they will actually make it. I think the next few weeks will go a long, long way in determining that.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:20 am
ChicagoTom wrote:I am not saying Jasikevicius can't contribute in some way, but do not expect him to play 35 minutes a night and score 14 a game. It is just not going to happen with this Warriors team.


Yeah, he'll have between 15 and 20 min per game. Not more, unless Baron goes down with injuries or something like that.

ChicagoTom wrote:Also, do not mix up the international game with the NBA. Success in European Championships and the Olympics, translates very little into the NBA game. From my observations, successul European teams on the club and country level excel at solid, team-oriented half court sets where they pass the ball and really work well as a team to find open shots for one another. It is fun to watch when it works, but the NBA is not like that. It is unfortunately more one-on-one creators and such.


Also true. The NBA game is more about isolations and (star) players working on their own (not every team is like that, but that's the basic system across the league). Saras is a good player... but just a role player. His shooting is his best trait for the NBA.
Last edited by TMC on Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:26 am
ChicagoTom wrote:
The time is now to make a run for the playoffs. The Clippers are playing better and Minnesota is still hanging around. The Warriors have to mesh quickly and get it together AS A TEAM. This team has the talent to make the playoffs, but I am not sure they will actually make it. I think the next few weeks will go a long, long way in determining that.


Yeah, well. All that is true, I'm just saying that those two teams are in a similar situation than us. If any of them gets into a funk for, say 5 or 6 games, they're out of the playoffs. Same with us.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:55 am
Lituano wrote:I agree with Chicago Tom - it's to much one-on-one plays, because Jackson and Harington are players of this style... I don't like this style, because this works only if you have basketball superstar as MJ, Lebron or Kobe in your team. Warriors must find other ways to defeat opponents in this league...

Jasikevicius had a good game with Cavs and not so good game with Lakers... He needs more playtime and more ball control on attacks, if you want good results - ball must two or three times reach Saras in one attack, then he can do incredible things - he can be leader and he can make other players better, i believe. Do you remember matches Lithuania-USA in Sydney or Athens??? Saras can play in the same level with NBA stars, if coach gives him chance and he can initiate ball movement. I'm bored (and many lithuanians too...), because Saras got only 11 minutes of playtime this match... but we understand, that Baron Davis is very good player - not very good situation for Saras, because he's not a real backup player... He was real leader in all teams before NBA. Yes, he is poor one-on-one defender, he can defend only in team defense good, i agree... but this player must play at least 20 minutes, if you want good play from Saras.

Jackson and Harrington are not very good teammates for Saras, Biedrins is better, for example... :)

And, finally - every playmaker needs time to know new teammates. Saras too...

(...Uh, English is so difficult language for me... but i can make progress here ;) )

Sorry to say but Saras is backing up Baron and will do so as long as Baron is healthy. Saras did alright, it's just you can't expect him to play more than 20 minutes ever backing up Baron
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:49 am
ChicagoTom wrote:Yet another one got away from the Warriors last night. This is another game we will all look back on in April when the Warriors do not make the playoffs and say we should have won.

This game along with the ones against the Cavs, Bucks, Pacers, Seattle and New Jersey come to mind when talking about games that the Warriors were in control of and somehow lost in the end.

Yes, this is a young team, but they need to figure out ways to win those games. It did not help that Baron was out the final 3+ minutes of the game. The Warriors could have used his on court guidance and leadership.

I did have a few observations:

1. Way too much one-on-one basketball from the Warriors. It seemed once someone got the ball, he was jacking it up or shooting a fadeaway. While Al did play well on the offensive end, it seems both he and Stephen Jackson are trying too hard to score and to prove themselves. They need to let the game come to them naturally.

2. Because of the Jackson and Al taking so many shots, others on the team like Monta, Biedrins, Pietrus and others are not getting the looks they normally would and there is no flow to the offense at all.

3. Monta needs to learn to move without the basketball. If he does not bring the ball up the court and create on his own, he is a non-factor offensively. He stands on the wing or in the corner and does nothing. He needs to learn to use screens and move around on the court to find scoring chances for himself.

4. The early returns on Jasikevicius are not good. Contrary to what some might think, I am not so convinced this run and gun style of play fits him. He seemed to be pressing a bit out there and he turned the ball over a few times and except for one shot in the final two minutes, did nothing offensively. I am hoping he has just had two of his not so good games and that he will get better. However, I am not convinced he will thrive in Nellie's system.

5. When big trades like this happen, it takes some time for new players to get acclimated with their new teammates. I think this is the case right now with the Warriors. The new players and older players are trying to mesh with one another and while we have seen some good things, we have seen some not so good things too. Unfortunately, the record is 0-2 with the new players. The next two games are home against New Jersey and Charlotte. These are MUST wins. If the Warriors lose both of these, bye bye playoffs.

6. The Clippers are now ahead of the Warriors. The time is now to start playing and getting a string of wins. If not, as mentioned in #5, the Warriors will NOT make the playoffs or even come close.

let's see - good post as always, ChiTom. Not sure I agree with some of it.

What I see is, this team just finished playing a very good team in Cleveland and without Baron, and then played the Lakers in LA, who are 11-1 against the west at home, and are a much better team than they get credit for, and were in both games to the last minute. I believe if Baron had not gottne the cramp we would have stolen 1 in LA.

The team is built for the open court running game, Harrington is a real offensive force and Jackson is a strong and gutty all around player. You make a great point about Monta - he can score on the break and off the drive if the rock is in his hand. He is fairly clueless in 1/2 court, but then again we have no 1/2 court game.

Jasekvicius actually looked excellent against Cleveland. In LA, they sicked Kobe on him, who is one of the 3-4 best onball lockdown defenders in the league and he couldn't handle it. The Ws had no choice, cause of Baron's leg cramps. Sarunas will help in many situations, as long as he is not expected to be the man in crunch time.

What I am concerned about is the league seems to have figured out the way to neutralize Biedrins, the Ws only real rebounding option, by getting him in foul trouble. The league continues to call fouls on defenders when drivers fling themselves into them, and Biedrins is still making the mistakes a 21-year-old can make. He is our only decent rebounder, so Nelson needs to see what he can do to keep him in the game. Not sure what one can do when Kobe jumps into him...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:19 pm
I don't believe, that Jasikevicius can get 35 minutes in this or other team, I know also, he can't play better than Baron Davis - he's older, slower... 20 or 25 minutes is enough ;) but not 11 as last time... :(

NBA don't want to change this style - you're right, here basketball is different. But many international players played here, and NBA makes progress, i think - NBA is not so individual now, we have more teamwork in teams... Lithuanian best players Marciulionis (ex-Warriors) and Sabonis(ex-Blazers) have founded nice place here in NBA... Saras can be better role player, than in Pacers, he can be very good 6th man, if team can use his skills. I believe, that Nellie is better coach then Carlisle.

Many NBA fans can disagree with me, but i think, that team with NBA-level players and european team-based basketball with many technical passes can be unstopable here ;) USA National team with very good NBA players lost many games in last few years - this is very clear sign, that one-on-one basketball is not so good... One player can defeat other players, but he can't win against real team. Saras wants to build real team with different basketball in NBA, because he knows how to win against NBA-style players, but NBA don't give him this chance... :(

But if Saras will play 5 or 10 minutes in NBA this season, it's not so bad ;) then he saves more energy for playing in EuroChamp this summer... :) :) :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:26 pm
I agree that the Lakers are a good team that is underrated around the league. I also think Cleveland is a decent team, but the Warriors seem to be in these games until the very end and something always seems to go wrong and they end up on the wrong end of a 3-point game.

Coltraining hit the nail on the head about Beidrins being neutralized and isolated by getting him in foul trouble. I can't stand when players jump into defenders who are standing straight up with their arms up and somehow the defender gets called for the foul. This is happening to Andris and I can't help but think the refs are making calls against him in situations like this because he is young and has to "pay his dues." I do not buy that and the NBA needs to sort out the refs because refs make too many calls or not enough fouls based on who the players involved are. The vets will always get calls and that is not always right as there is not always a foul to call.

Anyways, I hope the Warriors can learn from these tough losses and string together a few wins in a row to get the team back to around .500. The east coast trip will be tough, but the competition in Atlanta, Charlotte and Philly means the Warriors could have some success there.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:29 pm
Lituano wrote:I don't believe, that Jasikevicius can get 35 minutes in this or other team, I know also, he can't play better than Baron Davis - he's older, slower... 20 or 25 minutes is enough ;) but not 11 as last time... :(

NBA don't want to change this style - you're right, here basketball is different. But many international players played here, and NBA makes progress, i think - NBA is not so individual now, we have more teamwork in teams... Lithuanian best players Marciulionis (ex-Warriors) and Sabonis(ex-Blazers) have founded nice place here in NBA... Saras can be better role player, than in Pacers, he can be very good 6th man, if team can use his skills. I believe, that Nellie is better coach then Carlisle.

Many NBA fans can disagree with me, but i think, that team with NBA-level players and european team-based basketball with many technical passes can be unstopable here ;) USA National team with very good NBA players lost many games in last few years - this is very clear sign, that one-on-one basketball is not so good... One player can defeat other players, but he can't win against real team. Saras wants to build real team with different basketball in NBA, because he knows how to win against NBA-style players, but NBA don't give him this chance... :(

But if Saras will play 5 or 10 minutes in NBA this season, it's not so bad ;) then he saves more energy for playing in EuroChamp this summer... :) :) :)

Trust me my friend, I would love to see the Warriors or for that matter a lot of NBA teams play more a team-oriented game. Unfortunately, that has seemingly gone the way of the buffalo here in the States.

I think this style of play that is so popular and successful in Europe could work here as well. Too much isolation and one-on-one in the NBA and that is one of the reasons many long time basketball fans have abandoned the NBA. I have likely opened up a can of worms here, but I have to go now. I will catch up on this discussion later.

Nice post Lituano!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:57 pm
ChicagoTom wrote:Coltraining hit the nail on the head about Beidrins being neutralized and isolated by getting him in foul trouble. I can't stand when players jump into defenders who are standing straight up with their arms up and somehow the defender gets called for the foul. This is happening to Andris and I can't help but think the refs are making calls against him in situations like this because he is young and has to "pay his dues." I do not buy that and the NBA needs to sort out the refs because refs make too many calls or not enough fouls based on who the players involved are. The vets will always get calls and that is not always right as there is not always a foul to call.


I think Biedrins may also be a bit tired. We're talking about a guy that went from barely playing to a starter spot and 30 min per game. The NBA season ain't exactly easy to endure...

ChicagoTom wrote:I think this style of play that is so popular and successful in Europe could work here as well. Too much isolation and one-on-one in the NBA and that is one of the reasons many long time basketball fans have abandoned the NBA.


Tell that to the league. The NBA dreams with games in which two players go over 50 points apiece and decide the game scoring the last 10 points of their respective teams. Some of the more purist fans may have abandoned the game... but this style attracts more bandwagoners than any other.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:03 pm
TMC wrote:
ChicagoTom wrote:Coltraining hit the nail on the head about Beidrins being neutralized and isolated by getting him in foul trouble. I can't stand when players jump into defenders who are standing straight up with their arms up and somehow the defender gets called for the foul. This is happening to Andris and I can't help but think the refs are making calls against him in situations like this because he is young and has to "pay his dues." I do not buy that and the NBA needs to sort out the refs because refs make too many calls or not enough fouls based on who the players involved are. The vets will always get calls and that is not always right as there is not always a foul to call.


I think Biedrins may also be a bit tired. We're talking about a guy that went from barely playing to a starter spot and 30 min per game. The NBA season ain't exactly easy to endure...

ChicagoTom wrote:I think this style of play that is so popular and successful in Europe could work here as well. Too much isolation and one-on-one in the NBA and that is one of the reasons many long time basketball fans have abandoned the NBA.


Tell that to the league. The NBA dreams with games in which two players go over 50 points apiece and decide the game scoring the last 10 points of their respective teams. Some of the more purist fans may have abandoned the game... but this style attracts more bandwagoners than any other.

maybe, but then explain the huge popularity of the Suns, who exemplify share the ball hoops - seems to me the Suns are the best of both world - amazing nba skills combined with beautiful ball movement and they are the most popular team in the league -
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:07 pm
one more reason the loss was not exactly shocking, from the daily dime:

Three NBA teams (Warriors, Grizzlies and Bulls) visited their personal "house of horrors" Monday. All three lost.

The Lakers posted their sixth straight win over Golden State and 11th in the last 12 games between the teams. The Lakers won despite a season-high 24 turnovers.

Worst Record At Current Arenas (Minimum: 10 games)
Team Arena W-L Monday/Next
Bucks US Airways Center (Suns) 0-14 '07-08 season
Clippers EnergySolutions Arena (Jazz) 1-28 '07-08 season
Grizzlies ARCO Arena (Kings) 1-22 '07-08 season
Grizzlies Pepsi Center (Nuggets) 1-15 L, 115-98
Warriors Staples Ctr. (Clips/Lakers) 1-15 L, 108-103
Bulls Conseco Fieldhouse (Pacers) 1-14 L, 98-91
Nets US Airways Center (Suns) 1-13 '07-08 season
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