John Patrick wrote:...It's the apocalypse!! uptempo praised Mullin!
FYI, I have commended Mullin on drafting Biedrens, Ike, and Monta.
BIG TRADE! Bye-bye Murphy. Bye-bye Dunleavy.
Moderators: Mr. Crackerz, JREED, Guybrush, 32
Huge trade for both teams. The Warriors got the better of the trade no doubt. That could change in the future depending on how Diogu pans out but for now, the Warriors have definitely got the better of the trade. Harrington and Jackson should flourish well in Nelson's offensive system. Dunleavy gets a fresh new start and Murphy finally gets a new offensive system to play with.
But thanks to this trade, the Warriors will be well short handed. 6 players in uni. The Warriors recalled POB back from the DL, just signed some kid from the DL, and will have Foyle dressed to play. This game will be tough tonight. Not much rest for any player. The Clips will be attacking the basket to get the likes of Biedrins in foul trouble.
Now I just wonder who will be returning and who will be joining this forum with Dunleavy and Murphy now out of the Warriors.
But thanks to this trade, the Warriors will be well short handed. 6 players in uni. The Warriors recalled POB back from the DL, just signed some kid from the DL, and will have Foyle dressed to play. This game will be tough tonight. Not much rest for any player. The Clips will be attacking the basket to get the likes of Biedrins in foul trouble.
Now I just wonder who will be returning and who will be joining this forum with Dunleavy and Murphy now out of the Warriors.
wow wow woww just found this out... this is a big time steal. you've got to give mullin a double high five, he pulled this one out of a hat. harrington and jackson are far better than dunleavy and murphy, losing diogu kind of sucks but he didnt really fit with our team, plus you got to give them something of value lol. jasikevecious or whatever his name is can shoot the rock. all i can say is whatever drinks mullin was feeding donnie walsh, it worked!!
Oh damn. I just remembered the Pacers really wanted Maggette. Looks like that might just happen?ritchie wrote:Good job getting rid of those contracts Mully.
As for Bird and Donnie Walsh, I don't think they are done. Look for Dunleavy to be moved to the Clips or somewhere else.
They made this move to free up Granger (whose a better SF anyway). Dunleavy is going to be moved.
I don't think Murph will stay either, I think he gets moved somewhere else. I know Indy is looking for a PG (we booed dun dun like the pacers boo tinsley).
ChicagoTom wrote:I was just watching Around the Horn and PTI on ESPN and every one of the guys on each show said the trade benefited the Pacers. I am not sure their individual reasons behind it.
They all kept saying how smart Bird and Donnie Walsh are for getting rid of a troublemaker like Stephen Jackson. I am not fond of Jackson as I have voiced earlier, but I would rather have him than the higher and longer contracts on Dunleavy and Murphy.
Also, a quick opinion about the national sports media....I get the feeling that the likes of Mike Wilbon, JA Adande, Jay Mariotti, Woody Paige, Bob Ryan and Tony Kornheiser do not even watch the NBA or have much interest in the league at all. Therefore, I am not even sure why these shows waste time on topics where the hosts and guests have no clue what they are talking about.
I mean when was the last time one of these guys watched the Warriors? My guess is that none of them have seen one game this season. There are very few members of the sports media I trust that at least follows the games. Bill Simmons at ESPN is one of the few that follows the games from not just his beloved Celtics, but the Clippers, Suns and other teams as well.
Sports media figures need to follow all major sports if they want to make "professional" comments about trades such as today's. If they do not watch the games, they should just shut up.
yep anybody in the national media who says the pacers got the better end of the deal should be fired immediately!
when healthy...
The Pacers basically got three lottery players for three free agent signings. Harrington, Jackson and Sarunas were all signed as free agents while the Warriors continue their 12 year playoff drought with a knack for scoundering lottery picks from Dunleavy, Murphy, Diogu, Jamison, Webber, Pietrus ... Bird and company have the luxury of letting underperforming ex-Warriors develop and mature in the crappy Eastern Conference and become respectable starters/role players like Arenas, Jamison, Hughes. I attribute 90% of the Warriors problems with coaching instability and inability to keep players hitting their prime. Without a proven winner like Pop, Sloan, Philip or even Nellie, we have moved from one coaching philosophy to another and in every transistion our lottery picks and young players become obsolete We traded three lottery picks (think Tashyun prince, Amare Stoudamire, Josh Howard) for fricking Al Harrington. We can talk up Jackson, but Indiana was so desperate to trade away his contract that they took on two bad contracts and the worst defensive forward combo in NBA history. Because of this desperate trade we may be slightly better this year, but it is hard to get excited about another 10th place finish in the Western Conference and more wasted lottery picks.
The Pacers could do well from this also as Murphy has a big guy that draws double teams next to him and he should get some open jumpers. dun might also benefit from a slower paced style. Diogu is the one that will likely not see much time and might get traded again as he is not going to be Center, Jermaine is PF and really there is nowhere else for Diogu in the Pacers
Calderon's probably a little better.
ok this is from charley rosen on dunmurphy (damon bruce thank you for the name):
It wasn't so long ago that various combinations of Ron Artest, Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson and Jamaal Tinsley were deemed to be the core of a Pacers team that the organization believed could mount a serious challenge for a championship.
Since those hopeful days, the in-house evaluation of the Pacers' prospects had undergone a drastic change.
The trade with Golden State signals an entirely new direction for Indiana — one step backward in preparation for hopefully being able to take two steps forward.
Let's take a closer look at the players involved and the consequences for their new teams.
What Indiana gains
In Troy Murphy, the Pacers add an excellent stand-still, mid-range shooter who can run the floor, screen and pop, and attack the offensive boards. The left-handed Murphy can also post up on occasion, scoring with a turnaround jumper over his right shoulder, but preferring to turn and face, jab step, and then shoot. Nor is Murphy afraid to be physical in the paint. Beyond the pivot, Murphy can pump fake and drive right, but would rather drive left.
What can't he do? Defend, pass or compete with the same sheer athleticism as his peers.
Since Jermaine O'Neal has stated a preference to avoid playing center, Murphy and Jeff Foster now comprise an effective tandem in the middle. Foster provides rebounding and defense, while Murphy's shooting will make opponents pay dearly whenever O'Neal does venture into the paint and is double-teamed.
Since Murphy always works hard and is a solid citizen, look for him to thrive under Rick Carlisle's firm, yet fair management.
Mike Dunleavy can hit open shots from anywhere, pull-and-shoot going either way, move without the ball, sneak to the boards, and look to pass. Dunleavy's consistency from beyond the arc will be an asset for the Pacers, as will his willingness to play team-oriented ball. What he can not do is play anything resembling adequate defense. Zilch. Nada.
Ike Diogu remains a work in progress. A powerful 6-foot-8, he can either post and bang his way to the basket or shoot an effective turnaround jumper. Defense is a problem, as is passing, and avoiding turnovers. But like Murphy and Dunleavy, Diogu always plays hard all of the time.
Keith McLeod is a 3-point specialist who can't do much else, and, if he sticks, will not be a factor.
What the Pacers lose
Al Harrington will be scoring for the Warriors now. (Ray Amati/NBAE / Getty Images)
In Harrington, the Pacers lose a selfish player who never got sufficient touches to satisfy his huge ego. (Why, indeed, did Larry Bird bring him back to Indiana?) In Stephen Jackson, they deal away a loose cannon who has exploded far too many times, and who can't tell the difference between a good shot and a bad one. In Sarunas Jasikevicius, they lose a savvy, dead-eye shooter who was too slow and too defenseless to justify more than occasional playing time at either of the backcourt positions.
In other words, the Pacers have bereft themselves of a headache, a migraine, and a secret malcontent.
With the newcomers on board, here's what the Pacers rotation looks like:
Jamaal Tinsley is the holdover point guard — a talented player still plagued with poor judgment, a fatal flaw at his position. But who will his backup be?
At 37, Darrell Armstrong can only zip hither and yon for short bursts.
Marquis Daniels is a slasher, a penetrator and a puller, who can also rebound, and play long-armed defense. Because his perimeter shooting and his handle are suspect, Daniels can only play point in a dire emergency. So scratch him from the mix.
By default, the slot goes to young Orien Greene, who can defend some, but can't shoot himself in the foot.
Perhaps the Pacers are not done wheeling and dealing.
Dunleavy slips into Jackson's place beside Tinsley, Danny Granger becomes the full-time small forward, and Murphy subs at both power forward and center. The net result is a better perimeter game; a young stud to develop, who has a much better work ethic than David Harrison; and a set of players who will go about their business with no fuss and no complaints.
What Golden State gains
Harrington can ring up points with a medium-range jumper, with aggressive post-up moves, and with ferocious drives to the basket. An extremely talented performer, he can rebound like a big, and also has the skills to play some point guard. His overly earnest defense, however, usually gets him into foul trouble. However, with Brad Davis, Monta Ellis, and (when he's healthy) Jason Richardson monopolizing the ball, Harrington will inevitably be frustrated at not being the focus of the Warriors' offense.
Jackson is a shot-happy wing-man, who (like Harrington) loves to play iso-ball and fire away at his pleasure. Defense is not his thing.
Both Harrington and Jackson are explosive scorers, commodities of which Don Nelson never seems to have enough.
Jasikevicius needs more structure and more touches than he'll get playing Nellie Ball.
Josh Powell is a throw-in, who will either languish on the bench, or be quickly waived.
What Golden State loses
In Murphy and Dunleavy, they lose Nelson's favorite whipping boys. In Diogu, they lose a project that Nelson had no time or patience to nurture.
Poll
Here's what the Warriors new-look rotation might be:
Davis is a fixture, but Ellis' young-and-wild game might be better suited to coming off the bench. In that case, look for Jackson to step into the starting lineup at the 2-spot. Matt Barnes has played too well to relinquish his job at the small forward. And Andris Biedrins remains the only true center on the roster.
Will Harrington be used to provide instant points (or at least instant shots) behind both Biedrins and Mickael Pietrus? Or will Harrington's arrival eventually shove Pietrus to the bench? One shudders to think how the arrogant Pietrus will react to such a demotion.
The Warriors are now much more athletic than they were before the trade. With so many potent one-on-one scorers at his disposal, Nelson will have a ball puppet-mastering matchups.
So, then, who got the best of the transaction?
Golden State has enhanced the style of play that Nellie favors. Expect more of the same, but at a higher level. Yet the arrival of two more players with gigantic egos (Harrington and Jackson), along with Nelson's propensity to mix-and-match his starters and juggle everybody's playing time will eventually create problems.
To loosen up the logjam of scorers, the Warriors must trade Jason Richardson for a workmanlike big man who can defend and rebound.
The Pacers, meanwhile, have dramatically altered their game plan. Fast breaks are no longer in style, and unselfish ball-movement and ball-sharing will become the norm. Roles will be much more defined. Airheads will no longer be tolerated.
In the long run, the Pacers will become much more syncopated and therefore a much more solid ball club. But the lone remaining loose screw on the squad — Jamaal Tinsley — is advised to either blend in with the new deal, or else not send out his laundry.
It says here that, all things considered, Indiana rates the edge.
this guy is on pot!!!!! did you see what he had to say about dunmurphy? this guy is awful. the warriors clearly got the better TALENT in this deal. i dont understand why critics say that Indiana won. Why? Because they lost Jackson? On the court he is a good quality player. They lose Harrington who never should have come there in the first place. They lose Jsjkasdhkfh who did not get any playing time under Carlisle. And the other guy is a throw in player.
They get a Combo of probably the two worst contracts in the NBA. The critics do not mention their contracts. Murphy is nothing, hes been weak and soft ever since his nose got jacked up. And Rosen said Dun can hit from anywhere??? Are you kidding me??? He's one of the worst shooters on the team. I think Diogu can shoot better than Dun from beyond the arc.
I love this trade for the Warriors, it fills holes and they now have players that Nellie likes rather than players that they had to have due to their gynormous contracts.
Grade: A
It wasn't so long ago that various combinations of Ron Artest, Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson and Jamaal Tinsley were deemed to be the core of a Pacers team that the organization believed could mount a serious challenge for a championship.
Since those hopeful days, the in-house evaluation of the Pacers' prospects had undergone a drastic change.
The trade with Golden State signals an entirely new direction for Indiana — one step backward in preparation for hopefully being able to take two steps forward.
Let's take a closer look at the players involved and the consequences for their new teams.
What Indiana gains
In Troy Murphy, the Pacers add an excellent stand-still, mid-range shooter who can run the floor, screen and pop, and attack the offensive boards. The left-handed Murphy can also post up on occasion, scoring with a turnaround jumper over his right shoulder, but preferring to turn and face, jab step, and then shoot. Nor is Murphy afraid to be physical in the paint. Beyond the pivot, Murphy can pump fake and drive right, but would rather drive left.
What can't he do? Defend, pass or compete with the same sheer athleticism as his peers.
Since Jermaine O'Neal has stated a preference to avoid playing center, Murphy and Jeff Foster now comprise an effective tandem in the middle. Foster provides rebounding and defense, while Murphy's shooting will make opponents pay dearly whenever O'Neal does venture into the paint and is double-teamed.
Since Murphy always works hard and is a solid citizen, look for him to thrive under Rick Carlisle's firm, yet fair management.
Mike Dunleavy can hit open shots from anywhere, pull-and-shoot going either way, move without the ball, sneak to the boards, and look to pass. Dunleavy's consistency from beyond the arc will be an asset for the Pacers, as will his willingness to play team-oriented ball. What he can not do is play anything resembling adequate defense. Zilch. Nada.
Ike Diogu remains a work in progress. A powerful 6-foot-8, he can either post and bang his way to the basket or shoot an effective turnaround jumper. Defense is a problem, as is passing, and avoiding turnovers. But like Murphy and Dunleavy, Diogu always plays hard all of the time.
Keith McLeod is a 3-point specialist who can't do much else, and, if he sticks, will not be a factor.
What the Pacers lose
Al Harrington will be scoring for the Warriors now. (Ray Amati/NBAE / Getty Images)
In Harrington, the Pacers lose a selfish player who never got sufficient touches to satisfy his huge ego. (Why, indeed, did Larry Bird bring him back to Indiana?) In Stephen Jackson, they deal away a loose cannon who has exploded far too many times, and who can't tell the difference between a good shot and a bad one. In Sarunas Jasikevicius, they lose a savvy, dead-eye shooter who was too slow and too defenseless to justify more than occasional playing time at either of the backcourt positions.
In other words, the Pacers have bereft themselves of a headache, a migraine, and a secret malcontent.
With the newcomers on board, here's what the Pacers rotation looks like:
Jamaal Tinsley is the holdover point guard — a talented player still plagued with poor judgment, a fatal flaw at his position. But who will his backup be?
At 37, Darrell Armstrong can only zip hither and yon for short bursts.
Marquis Daniels is a slasher, a penetrator and a puller, who can also rebound, and play long-armed defense. Because his perimeter shooting and his handle are suspect, Daniels can only play point in a dire emergency. So scratch him from the mix.
By default, the slot goes to young Orien Greene, who can defend some, but can't shoot himself in the foot.
Perhaps the Pacers are not done wheeling and dealing.
Dunleavy slips into Jackson's place beside Tinsley, Danny Granger becomes the full-time small forward, and Murphy subs at both power forward and center. The net result is a better perimeter game; a young stud to develop, who has a much better work ethic than David Harrison; and a set of players who will go about their business with no fuss and no complaints.
What Golden State gains
Harrington can ring up points with a medium-range jumper, with aggressive post-up moves, and with ferocious drives to the basket. An extremely talented performer, he can rebound like a big, and also has the skills to play some point guard. His overly earnest defense, however, usually gets him into foul trouble. However, with Brad Davis, Monta Ellis, and (when he's healthy) Jason Richardson monopolizing the ball, Harrington will inevitably be frustrated at not being the focus of the Warriors' offense.
Jackson is a shot-happy wing-man, who (like Harrington) loves to play iso-ball and fire away at his pleasure. Defense is not his thing.
Both Harrington and Jackson are explosive scorers, commodities of which Don Nelson never seems to have enough.
Jasikevicius needs more structure and more touches than he'll get playing Nellie Ball.
Josh Powell is a throw-in, who will either languish on the bench, or be quickly waived.
What Golden State loses
In Murphy and Dunleavy, they lose Nelson's favorite whipping boys. In Diogu, they lose a project that Nelson had no time or patience to nurture.
Poll
Here's what the Warriors new-look rotation might be:
Davis is a fixture, but Ellis' young-and-wild game might be better suited to coming off the bench. In that case, look for Jackson to step into the starting lineup at the 2-spot. Matt Barnes has played too well to relinquish his job at the small forward. And Andris Biedrins remains the only true center on the roster.
Will Harrington be used to provide instant points (or at least instant shots) behind both Biedrins and Mickael Pietrus? Or will Harrington's arrival eventually shove Pietrus to the bench? One shudders to think how the arrogant Pietrus will react to such a demotion.
The Warriors are now much more athletic than they were before the trade. With so many potent one-on-one scorers at his disposal, Nelson will have a ball puppet-mastering matchups.
So, then, who got the best of the transaction?
Golden State has enhanced the style of play that Nellie favors. Expect more of the same, but at a higher level. Yet the arrival of two more players with gigantic egos (Harrington and Jackson), along with Nelson's propensity to mix-and-match his starters and juggle everybody's playing time will eventually create problems.
To loosen up the logjam of scorers, the Warriors must trade Jason Richardson for a workmanlike big man who can defend and rebound.
The Pacers, meanwhile, have dramatically altered their game plan. Fast breaks are no longer in style, and unselfish ball-movement and ball-sharing will become the norm. Roles will be much more defined. Airheads will no longer be tolerated.
In the long run, the Pacers will become much more syncopated and therefore a much more solid ball club. But the lone remaining loose screw on the squad — Jamaal Tinsley — is advised to either blend in with the new deal, or else not send out his laundry.
It says here that, all things considered, Indiana rates the edge.
this guy is on pot!!!!! did you see what he had to say about dunmurphy? this guy is awful. the warriors clearly got the better TALENT in this deal. i dont understand why critics say that Indiana won. Why? Because they lost Jackson? On the court he is a good quality player. They lose Harrington who never should have come there in the first place. They lose Jsjkasdhkfh who did not get any playing time under Carlisle. And the other guy is a throw in player.
They get a Combo of probably the two worst contracts in the NBA. The critics do not mention their contracts. Murphy is nothing, hes been weak and soft ever since his nose got jacked up. And Rosen said Dun can hit from anywhere??? Are you kidding me??? He's one of the worst shooters on the team. I think Diogu can shoot better than Dun from beyond the arc.
I love this trade for the Warriors, it fills holes and they now have players that Nellie likes rather than players that they had to have due to their gynormous contracts.
Grade: A
d1mex wrote:this guy is on pot!!!!! did you see what he had to say about dunmurphy? this guy is awful. the warriors clearly got the better TALENT in this deal. i dont understand why critics say that Indiana won. Why? Because they lost Jackson? On the court he is a good quality player. They lose Harrington who never should have come there in the first place. They lose Jsjkasdhkfh who did not get any playing time under Carlisle. And the other guy is a throw in player.
They get a Combo of probably the two worst contracts in the NBA. The critics do not mention their contracts. Murphy is nothing, hes been weak and soft ever since his nose got jacked up. And Rosen said Dun can hit from anywhere??? Are you kidding me??? He's one of the worst shooters on the team. I think Diogu can shoot better than Dun from beyond the arc.
You know... more often than not, critics don't know what they're talking about.
I don't know how anyone can make an analysis of the trade without even mentioning the contracts Indy's taking... more than an analysis is an ANAL-ysis.
d1mex wrote:...In Troy Murphy, the Pacers add an excellent stand-still, mid-range shooter who can run the floor, screen and pop, and attack the offensive boards... Nor is Murphy afraid to be physical in the paint...
[b]Mike Dunleavy can hit open shots from anywhere... Dunleavy's consistency from beyond the arc will be an asset.
I was going to say how amazing it is that we all see the same things differently. Now, I think that analist has actually never even seen the Ws play.
The technical detail just rings of an old scouting report he got off the internet or from an assistant coach's locker. Even the language is not that of a professional writer.