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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:52 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
Mullin's done a decent job so far (if not for the contracts, he'd have done a great job). We go from being a league doormat to an 8th seed... and nobody cares. Chris Mullin dragged this team off the bottom of the ocean.

We ain't gettin' the eighth seed right now in case you didn't notice

I have noticed. I've also noticed a big lack of Jason Richardson (injuries), Troy Murphy (slump), and Ike Diogu (DNP's) this season.

Richardson's return will bolster the team (if he's, indeed, finally at 100%). Imagine last year's record without Jason Richardson. Now imagine what adding that same player to THIS YEAR's lineup will do. The Warriors are still in the hunt for the 8th seed.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:39 am
uptempo wrote:
TMC wrote:
uptempo wrote:Please tell me that you don't believe that Mullin is doing a better job than Vandeweghe would do. We do need to evaluate all aspects of this team, including the front office.


I'm not taking any sides, but you know Vandeweghe would start the team from scractch again, don't you?. That's at least four years before having a chance to go to the playoffs...


Do you believe that this hodge-podge of disparate pieces will be in the playoffs within 4 years?

Also, if this team gets into the playoffs in 2 years, how far does it go, and then what?

Mullin has saddled us with a potentially slightly better than mediocre team.

Let's get a real architect in here who has a proven track record and can build a winning program.


I'm just not sold on Vandeweghe. When he took over the Nuggets, he traded their few good pieces (Van Exel, Lafrentz... At least, they were good in Denver and were tradable because of that) and signed Andre Miller (the only free agent willing to go to Denver) the next offseason. The team never really took off until they drafted Carmelo, something any retarded GM could have done (not Dumars, tho. Probably his only mistake running the Pistons, but one that could cost them a chance to have several titles).

I mean, I'm still not convinced that Kiki is a good GM. It's not like Ernie Grunfeld (who has improved several teams) or Brian Colangelo... so, if we're going to change for the unknown... why do it?.

I've got the feeling that Mullin has (somewhat) learned from his mistakes. I would wait until the end of next season before asking for his head.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:24 am
TMC wrote:
uptempo wrote:
TMC wrote:
uptempo wrote:Please tell me that you don't believe that Mullin is doing a better job than Vandeweghe would do. We do need to evaluate all aspects of this team, including the front office.


I'm not taking any sides, but you know Vandeweghe would start the team from scractch again, don't you?. That's at least four years before having a chance to go to the playoffs...


Do you believe that this hodge-podge of disparate pieces will be in the playoffs within 4 years?

Also, if this team gets into the playoffs in 2 years, how far does it go, and then what?

Mullin has saddled us with a potentially slightly better than mediocre team.

Let's get a real architect in here who has a proven track record and can build a winning program.


I'm just not sold on Vandeweghe. When he took over the Nuggets, he traded their few good pieces (Van Exel, Lafrentz... At least, they were good in Denver and were tradable because of that) and signed Andre Miller (the only free agent willing to go to Denver) the next offseason. The team never really took off until they drafted Carmelo, something any retarded GM could have done (not Dumars, tho. Probably his only mistake running the Pistons, but one that could cost them a chance to have several titles).

I mean, I'm still not convinced that Kiki is a good GM. It's not like Ernie Grunfeld (who has improved several teams) or Brian Colangelo... so, if we're going to change for the unknown... why do it?.

I've got the feeling that Mullin has (somewhat) learned from his mistakes. I would wait until the end of next season before asking for his head.


You make some good points.

I like both Grunfeld and Colangelo.

I do not like having our front office guy learning on the job. We need a guy in here who know what he is doing. Training wheels are for children. NBA basketball is a man's sport!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:59 am
#32 wrote:
uptempo wrote:4. Fire Chris Mullin

I was waiting for the other shoe to drop.

It's like a Southpark episode, where all Cartman cares about is killing Kyle. Without fail, uptempo never ceases to clamor for the firing of Chris Mullin.

There's just one problem: Baron Davis, Don Nelson, Andris Biedrins, Mickael Pietrus, Monta Ellis, Ike Diogu, and Matt Barnes all wouldn't be here without Chris Mullin. And, right now, most of them are on your 'good list'.

The guy's put together a decent team. Your only gripe with him is the way he gives out contracts. #1, bad contracts are necessary to keep talent when you're a lottery team. #2, A couple bad signs are not enough to fire a guy.

If Murphy can be moved, than all will be forgiven. Dunleavy was a huge mistake, Foyle will expire in a couple seasons, and Derek Fisher is already gone. Aside from a few bad contracts, the guy's been great. He refused to trade some of his budding young stars (Ike Diogu) for an insane headcase (like Ron Artest)... and Atlanta never wanted talent, in return for Al Harrington, they wanted cap relief (which Indy had).

Mullin's done a decent job so far (if not for the contracts, he'd have done a great job). We go from being a league doormat to an 8th seed... and nobody cares. Chris Mullin dragged this team off the bottom of the ocean.


TOTALLY AGREE! After reading uptempo's post I was thinking the same thing and was about to post these feeling, but you did it for me!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:00 pm
uptempo wrote:
TMC wrote:
uptempo wrote:
TMC wrote:
uptempo wrote:Please tell me that you don't believe that Mullin is doing a better job than Vandeweghe would do. We do need to evaluate all aspects of this team, including the front office.


I'm not taking any sides, but you know Vandeweghe would start the team from scractch again, don't you?. That's at least four years before having a chance to go to the playoffs...


Do you believe that this hodge-podge of disparate pieces will be in the playoffs within 4 years?

Also, if this team gets into the playoffs in 2 years, how far does it go, and then what?

Mullin has saddled us with a potentially slightly better than mediocre team.

Let's get a real architect in here who has a proven track record and can build a winning program.


I'm just not sold on Vandeweghe. When he took over the Nuggets, he traded their few good pieces (Van Exel, Lafrentz... At least, they were good in Denver and were tradable because of that) and signed Andre Miller (the only free agent willing to go to Denver) the next offseason. The team never really took off until they drafted Carmelo, something any retarded GM could have done (not Dumars, tho. Probably his only mistake running the Pistons, but one that could cost them a chance to have several titles).

I mean, I'm still not convinced that Kiki is a good GM. It's not like Ernie Grunfeld (who has improved several teams) or Brian Colangelo... so, if we're going to change for the unknown... why do it?.

I've got the feeling that Mullin has (somewhat) learned from his mistakes. I would wait until the end of next season before asking for his head.


You make some good points.

I like both Grunfeld and Colangelo.

I do not like having our front office guy learning on the job. We need a guy in here who know what he is doing. Training wheels are for children. NBA basketball is a man's sport!


I think Mullin has done an OK job until now and he is getting better. Keep him around.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:14 pm
O.G. broe wrote:I Also agree with the statement but it is way too early to judge Ike in the system and given the major injury's it's unfair at this point to be bashing Mullin and calling for his flat top on a platter, especially with the emerging Monta,Bedrins,Barnes and now Azubuike as well as Baron back to playing All Star caliber B'ball.
IF Murph & J Rich were healthy this year the Warriors would probally be a 6-7 seed :!:


OG, you make some good points here.

I had originally thought that Murphy would thrive playing center in a faster paced offense where he could man the post, spot up on the wing, and do things that would utilize his unique for a big man skill set (outside shooting). I am beginning to think that I may have been premature in this belief. Do you think that Murphy can be effective in a Nelson coached team? Also, with Murphy on the floor, it would seem to make sense to have either Biedrens or Ike playing alongside him to give the team an inside presence. Does this make sense?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:19 pm
uptempo wrote:
#32 wrote:
uptempo wrote:4. Fire Chris Mullin

I was waiting for the other shoe to drop.

It's like a Southpark episode, where all Cartman cares about is killing Kyle. Without fail, uptempo never ceases to clamor for the firing of Chris Mullin.

There's just one problem: Baron Davis, Don Nelson, Andris Biedrins, Mickael Pietrus, Monta Ellis, Ike Diogu, and Matt Barnes all wouldn't be here without Chris Mullin. And, right now, most of them are on your 'good list'.

The guy's put together a decent team. Your only gripe with him is the way he gives out contracts. #1, bad contracts are necessary to keep talent when you're a lottery team. #2, A couple bad signs are not enough to fire a guy.

If Murphy can be moved, than all will be forgiven. Dunleavy was a huge mistake, Foyle will expire in a couple seasons, and Derek Fisher is already gone. Aside from a few bad contracts, the guy's been great. He refused to trade some of his budding young stars (Ike Diogu) for an insane headcase (like Ron Artest)... and Atlanta never wanted talent, in return for Al Harrington, they wanted cap relief (which Indy had).

Mullin's done a decent job so far (if not for the contracts, he'd have done a great job). We go from being a league doormat to an 8th seed... and nobody cares. Chris Mullin dragged this team off the bottom of the ocean.


LOL!

Please tell me that you don't believe that Mullin is doing a better job than Vandeweghe would do. We do need to evaluate all aspects of this team, including the front office.

I, too, would rather have Ike than Artest; however, Artest would be a great fit for a Nelson coached team. He is a multi-dimensional and athletic player who can take over a game both on the defensive as well as offensive end of the floor.

Artest is a brilliant and emotionally damaged head case. He would do well with coach/therapists like Phil Jackson or Pat Riley...he might actually do great for Nelson, but at the time he would have come to Monty, who would not have been able to deal...I do agree that Ike is not a good fit for Nelson's run and gun style, so if they can't come to some accommodation it would be best to move him some place where he could play and the Ws could get some value. My worry in that is Nelson will only be here 2 more years max, and Ike is a player who could contribute well for the next decade. People point to the great shape he left Dallas in, but one could easily point to the mess of the Warriors upon his departure as well. I think 32 has a good and balanced take on Mullin, and as for recovering addicts, I think there is some pretty good evidence that Nelson is an addict not in recovery, based on his recent public interviews and behavior. I don't want to go into that in depth here, since I posted thoughts on that on the Nelson/KNBR thread, but I have a # of friends (being in the music world, which has a high # of addicts I see it a lot) in and out of recovery and Mullin's behavior is very much that of someone who is very much in recovery. I have great admiration for his doing that...
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:01 pm
In the end Mullin will be judged on if he is able to keep real NBA starters in Monta and Biedrins with long term deals. If his Dungleavy, Murphy and Foyle signings keep him from signing real talent to long term deals he will have failed as a GM. Think Gilbert Arenas X 2.

The thing is if we keep Mullin (which we will) we dont know how motivated he is to keep Dunleavy. If dunleavy has a few good games is Mullin gonna go back to being egotistic about keeping dunleavy?

If we fire him, then we can get a GM whose #1 objective would be to move contracts to resign our young talent.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:26 pm
tradedunleavy wrote:In the end Mullin will be judged on if he is able to keep real NBA starters in Monta and Biedrins with long term deals. If his Dungleavy, Murphy and Foyle signings keep him from signing real talent to long term deals he will have failed as a GM. Think Gilbert Arenas X 2.

I completely agree with this statement. If Mullin's bad contracts end up destroying the team, that should be enough to get rid of him. But that remains to be seen.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:19 am
#32 wrote:
tradedunleavy wrote:In the end Mullin will be judged on if he is able to keep real NBA starters in Monta and Biedrins with long term deals. If his Dungleavy, Murphy and Foyle signings keep him from signing real talent to long term deals he will have failed as a GM. Think Gilbert Arenas X 2.

I completely agree with this statement. If Mullin's bad contracts end up destroying the team, that should be enough to get rid of him. But that remains to be seen.


Yep, that's what we've been saying all along. He's made some bad signings and some good ones (drafting mostly). Let's wait what happens with those good ones. If we lose them, ask for his head... but not now.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:51 am
[quote="tradedunleavy"
The thing is if we keep Mullin (which we will) we dont know how motivated he is to keep Dunleavy. If dunleavy has a few good games is Mullin gonna go back to being egotistic about keeping dunleavy?[/quote]

I think we know how motivated he is in keeping Dunleavy. Mullin was a big part of St Jean drafting Dunleavy. They both thought they were getting the next Larry Bird. Mullin also thought he saw a little bit of himself in Dunleavy. Give him that big contract shows me how motivated he is about keeping Mike.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:23 pm
TMC wrote:The team never really took off until they drafted Carmelo, something any retarded GM could have done (not Dumars, tho. Probably his only mistake running the Pistons, but one that could cost them a chance to have several titles).



If Dumars had gotten Carmelo, it most likely would have been the worst move he ever made! Carmelo would have likely stepped out of line with a guy like Rasheed and things would have never recovered. The Pistons have done it as a team and not any one individual star and they were right in doing that
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:38 pm
migya wrote:
TMC wrote:The team never really took off until they drafted Carmelo, something any retarded GM could have done (not Dumars, tho. Probably his only mistake running the Pistons, but one that could cost them a chance to have several titles).



If Dumars had gotten Carmelo, it most likely would have been the worst move he ever made! Carmelo would have likely stepped out of line with a guy like Rasheed and things would have never recovered. The Pistons have done it as a team and not any one individual star and they were right in doing that


Both positions are valid. I do see Carmelo as a great player; however, as a rookie or a 2nd year player playing for Larry Brown could not be a cakewalk, even in Detroit with all of its stars.

Rasheed's influence has been very positive in Detroit, especially during the short-lived Larry Brown era. During the Saunders era, he, Rasheed, has been somewhat more problematic.

Vandeweghe would be a huge upgrade over Mullin in the front office.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:25 am
migya wrote:
TMC wrote:The team never really took off until they drafted Carmelo, something any retarded GM could have done (not Dumars, tho. Probably his only mistake running the Pistons, but one that could cost them a chance to have several titles).



If Dumars had gotten Carmelo, it most likely would have been the worst move he ever made! Carmelo would have likely stepped out of line with a guy like Rasheed and things would have never recovered. The Pistons have done it as a team and not any one individual star and they were right in doing that



You know, the option was Carmelo (or even Dwayne Wade, but Wade was not a top 3 pick in that draft) against Milicic. I know Melo wouldn't have had the same minutes with Larry than in Denver... but still, he would have been so much better than Darko. It would have been an improvement, anyway.

Also, Rasheed is not problematic if he's not allowed to be. Larry kept him under control.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:51 pm
TMC wrote:
migya wrote:
TMC wrote:The team never really took off until they drafted Carmelo, something any retarded GM could have done (not Dumars, tho. Probably his only mistake running the Pistons, but one that could cost them a chance to have several titles).



If Dumars had gotten Carmelo, it most likely would have been the worst move he ever made! Carmelo would have likely stepped out of line with a guy like Rasheed and things would have never recovered. The Pistons have done it as a team and not any one individual star and they were right in doing that



You know, the option was Carmelo (or even Dwayne Wade, but Wade was not a top 3 pick in that draft) against Milicic. I know Melo wouldn't have had the same minutes with Larry than in Denver... but still, he would have been so much better than Darko. It would have been an improvement, anyway.

Also, Rasheed is not problematic if he's not allowed to be. Larry kept him under control.



I just see that situation not working. Carmelo is more of a me first player and the Pistons don't accept the slightest!
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