loyaltyisacurse wrote:

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:Though he is funny and though he is being honest about his players, Nelson can be going too far and risk upsetting and disrespecting the players and that could well lead to chaos!

Yep. I think it's pretty dumb to be so honest. You'll end up losing the team.

Those are the sort of things you can (should) talk with the players in the locker room. Talking openly to the media is just stupid. It's one thing when we say those things... but the coach cannot do it. Not openly, at least. And not as frequently as Nellie does it (it's different when a coach talks like that about a certain player after a bad game, but when he does it about several players and several times... that's a proffesional suicide).

Lose who? Dumbleavy, Foible, and Joe Barry Murphy? Thats, ritch... They've been lost for years...

Yeah, the problem is that criticizing some players may be a way to lose the rest. I mean, they get the feeling that if they don't play the way their coach expects, he'll be free to bash them on the media. After all, he's already done so...

TMC wrote:

loyaltyisacurse wrote:

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:Though he is funny and though he is being honest about his players, Nelson can be going too far and risk upsetting and disrespecting the players and that could well lead to chaos!

Yep. I think it's pretty dumb to be so honest. You'll end up losing the team.

Those are the sort of things you can (should) talk with the players in the locker room. Talking openly to the media is just stupid. It's one thing when we say those things... but the coach cannot do it. Not openly, at least. And not as frequently as Nellie does it (it's different when a coach talks like that about a certain player after a bad game, but when he does it about several players and several times... that's a proffesional suicide).

Lose who? Dumbleavy, Foible, and Joe Barry Murphy? Thats, ritch... They've been lost for years...

Yeah, the problem is that criticizing some players may be a way to lose the rest. I mean, they get the feeling that if they don't play the way their coach expects, he'll be free to bash them on the media. After all, he's already done so...

Unlike the Larry Brown situation in NY, I do not see Don Nelson calling out his star players (Davis, Monta, Richardson, and Biedrens); so, he, Nelson, is not alienating the guys that he needs to build the team around. Brown called out Starbury, Francis, and basically the whole roster; Nelson has focused on only the cancers (Dunleavy, Murphy, Foyle) and youngsters (Ike and to a certain extent Pietrus).

With Ike, I am perplexed; however, Nelson has never been able to develop an inside player in his 3-plus decades of coaching. It would seem to make sense for Mullin to trade Ike and get a more of a slasher/driver/fast break big man for this Nelson coached team.

The player bashing is of players whom Nelson probably does not around here anyway. The huge problem is that because of the ridiculous contracts that Mullin has given these guys, they will be virtually impossible to move out of here.

TMC wrote:

loyaltyisacurse wrote:

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:Though he is funny and though he is being honest about his players, Nelson can be going too far and risk upsetting and disrespecting the players and that could well lead to chaos!

Yep. I think it's pretty dumb to be so honest. You'll end up losing the team.

Those are the sort of things you can (should) talk with the players in the locker room. Talking openly to the media is just stupid. It's one thing when we say those things... but the coach cannot do it. Not openly, at least. And not as frequently as Nellie does it (it's different when a coach talks like that about a certain player after a bad game, but when he does it about several players and several times... that's a proffesional suicide).

Lose who? Dumbleavy, Foible, and Joe Barry Murphy? Thats, ritch... They've been lost for years...

Yeah, the problem is that criticizing some players may be a way to lose the rest. I mean, they get the feeling that if they don't play the way their coach expects, he'll be free to bash them on the media. After all, he's already done so...

Not to step into a mine field here, so I am phrasing this in the "if" form. A number of people have referred to Nelson's slurred speech. I know something about alcoholism and recovery. Alcoholics tend to be brilliant, charming, charismatic and manipulative people. When in recovery (i.e.) clean and sober, they can be incredibly together and motivated. If not in recovery they can be utterly destructive, manipulative and erratic. So IFNelson is an active alcoholic that would be a deep concern for the team. I don't know that, but he has been interviewed in various stages of intoxication, which would tend to indicate someone who can't control when they are using. Addicts have different brain chemistry from most of us (it's why only one out of four people who smokes gets hooked) but those who are genetic addicts need to be constantly vigilant. Addicts are addicts their whole lives. It's only a matter of whether they are active or not. One sign of an active addict is inappropriate social behavior...I'll leave it at that, except to say that about 1/4 of the population has addictive genetic predisposition, so it certainly wouldn't be shocking if Nelson were one of those, based on what I have read and seen of him this past few months. Again, I emphasize, this is an IF then proposition. From the outside, he is behaving like a classic active addict. Wealthy and high-functioning active addicts often have a support network of co-dependents who cover for them...

coltraning wrote:

TMC wrote:

loyaltyisacurse wrote:

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:Though he is funny and though he is being honest about his players, Nelson can be going too far and risk upsetting and disrespecting the players and that could well lead to chaos!

Yep. I think it's pretty dumb to be so honest. You'll end up losing the team.

Those are the sort of things you can (should) talk with the players in the locker room. Talking openly to the media is just stupid. It's one thing when we say those things... but the coach cannot do it. Not openly, at least. And not as frequently as Nellie does it (it's different when a coach talks like that about a certain player after a bad game, but when he does it about several players and several times... that's a proffesional suicide).

Lose who? Dumbleavy, Foible, and Joe Barry Murphy? Thats, ritch... They've been lost for years...

Yeah, the problem is that criticizing some players may be a way to lose the rest. I mean, they get the feeling that if they don't play the way their coach expects, he'll be free to bash them on the media. After all, he's already done so...

Not to step into a mine field here, so I am phrasing this in the "if" form. A number of people have referred to Nelson's slurred speech. I know something about alcoholism and recovery. Alcoholics tend to be brilliant, charming, charismatic and manipulative people. When in recovery (i.e.) clean and sober, they can be incredibly together and motivated. If not in recovery they can be utterly destructive, manipulative and erratic. So IFNelson is an active alcoholic that would be a deep concern for the team. I don't know that, but he has been interviewed in various stages of intoxication, which would tend to indicate someone who can't control when they are using. Addicts have different brain chemistry from most of us (it's why only one out of four people who smokes gets hooked) but those who are genetic addicts need to be constantly vigilant. Addicts are addicts their whole lives. It's only a matter of whether they are active or not. One sign of an active addict is inappropriate social behavior...I'll leave it at that, except to say that about 1/4 of the population has addictive genetic predisposition, so it certainly wouldn't be shocking if Nelson were one of those, based on what I have read and seen of him this past few months. Again, I emphasize, this is an IF then proposition. From the outside, he is behaving like a classic active addict. Wealthy and high-functioning active addicts often have a support network of co-dependents who cover for them...

You are bringing up some good points here. The organization is also headed up by a recovering alcoholic-addict in Chris Mullin who has also charmed and manipulated his way with Cohan and the media to deflect all criticism away from his front office tenure. The local media and fans are so used to having a horrible team that we have been suckered into believing Mullin will right the franchise eventhough he is as inept (maybe even more so) than Twardzick and Saint Jean.

Nelson has been quite effective, even brilliant; yet, the issue of his relationship to alcohol has always been a pink elephant that the media and fans have not wanted to face. Even during the off season while he was doing a tv clip with KRON, Nelson was caught on camera plastered. One of the many issues that Marc Cuban had with Nelson (along with his teams not playing defense nor rebounding) was Nelson's drinking.

Let's face it; this franchise is in big trouble, and it starts right at the top with Mullin going to Nelson and then to the players. It may be time to face reality and start over with a clean slate.

coltraning wrote:I know something about alcoholism and recovery. Alcoholics tend to be brilliant, charming, charismatic and manipulative people. When in recovery (i.e.) clean and sober, they can be incredibly together and motivated. If not in recovery they can be utterly destructive, manipulative and erratic.

It's weird. Most of the alcoholics I know (and there are a few) are just plain retarded... people that live for the bottle. Not all of them are like that, tho, but I don't think there's a correlation between being an addict and how brilliant they are. They would have been equally brilliant without the addiction... (of course, I'm just basing this on the people I know, not on any kind of scientific reasons, so I can be completely off target)

uptempo wrote:You are bringing up some good points here. The organization is also headed up by a recovering alcoholic-addict in Chris Mullin who has also charmed and manipulated his way with Cohan and the media to deflect all criticism away from his front office tenure. The local media and fans are so used to having a horrible team that we have been suckered into believing Mullin will right the franchise eventhough he is as inept (maybe even more so) than Twardzick and Saint Jean.

Nelson has been quite effective, even brilliant; yet, the issue of his relationship to alcohol has always been a pink elephant that the media and fans have not wanted to face. Even during the off season while he was doing a tv clip with KRON, Nelson was caught on camera plastered. One of the many issues that Marc Cuban had with Nelson (along with his teams not playing defense nor rebounding) was Nelson's drinking.

Let's face it; this franchise is in big trouble, and it starts right at the top with Mullin going to Nelson and then to the players. It may be time to face reality and start over with a clean slate.

I don't have any problem with Nellie as long as he's sober for the games. I think he made a mistake talking like that to the media, but I don't consider that he's a problem for the franchise. Quite the opposite.

In fact, there are worse things a coach can do...

I just listened to the entire interview on KNBR... and Nelson's speech was never slurred. That's just how the man speaks; he has an awkward mix of East Coast and Southern (Dallas) accent. Just because he doesn't sound like a scholar doesn't mean he's slurring his words.

#32 wrote:I just listened to the entire interview on KNBR... and Nelson's speech was never slurred.

Yea i didnt hear him slur either. This whole Don Nelson might be an alcholic movement is sad. You guys belong on the View with all your speculation. Let the man do his job and judge him on his performance, not on his personal life.

Hes the first person in Warriors organization in the last 10 years to call it how it is with his blasting of Dunleavy ect. That is the first step to recovery, admiting you have a problem and the Warriors have been addicted to losing. And you know what if I had to play Dunleavy and Foyle for an extended period of time id be drunk too.

Plus i think once Dunleavy is gone his BFF will start playing alot better. Dunleavy's attitude and haircut have rubbed off on murphy in the worst way.

tradedunleavy wrote:

#32 wrote:I just listened to the entire interview on KNBR... and Nelson's speech was never slurred.

Yea i didnt hear him slur either. This whole Don Nelson might be an alcholic movement is sad. You guys belong on the View with all your speculation. Let the man do his job and judge him on his performance, not on his personal life.

Hes the first person in Warriors organization in the last 10 years to call it how it is with his blasting of Dunleavy ect. That is the first step to recovery, admiting you have a problem and the Warriors have been addicted to losing. And you know what if I had to play Dunleavy and Foyle for an extended period of time id be drunk too.

Plus i think once Dunleavy is gone his BFF will start playing alot better. Dunleavy's attitude and haircut have rubbed off on murphy in the worst way.

"Hes the first person in Warriors organization in the last 10 years to call it how it is with his blasting of Dunleavy ect. That is the first step to recovery, admiting you have a problem and the Warriors have been addicted to losing. And you know what if I had to play Dunleavy and Foyle for an extended period of time id be drunk too. " I very much agree with you on this one.

What is a BFF?

uptempo wrote:One of the many issues that Marc Cuban had with Nelson (along with his teams not playing defense nor rebounding) was Nelson's drinking.

You've brought this up before. It wasn't true then and it's not true now. Mark Cuban is a micro-manager. That was the problem between him and Nelson. It had nothing to do with drinking. Mark, himself, is a noted party-er, or was before he got married.

#32 wrote:I just listened to the entire interview on KNBR... and Nelson's speech was never slurred. That's just how the man speaks; he has an awkward mix of East Coast and Southern (Dallas) accent. Just because he doesn't sound like a scholar doesn't mean he's slurring his words.

well, I don't want to get into a pissing match over whether he was or wasn't, but it sounded very much to me like the rhythm, speech pattern and content of someone who's been drinking, I've been around a lot of them over the years in the music business, and my living depends on hearing subtleties in pitch, rhythm and intonation. Like I very clearly said, this is an IF proposition. Neither of us has evidence, so I will leave it at that. Here's the link for the curious: http://media.knbr.com/knbr/nelson.mp3
One thing I can say is it is obvious that something went down between Diogu and him. His quote "I'm mad at him right now so I better not say much" and then proceeding to rip him far more harshly than any other warrior, including the underpeformers Dunleavy and Murphy, far more than what the rational eye can see as being warranted, confirms my suspicion that something is up between those two. Maybe Ike is just the thickheaded dummy that Nelson seems to think he is, maybe he is misused and is the next Truck Robinson as Uptempo thinks. Guess we'll find out when he or Nelson goes somewhere else

coltraning wrote:

#32 wrote:I just listened to the entire interview on KNBR... and Nelson's speech was never slurred. That's just how the man speaks; he has an awkward mix of East Coast and Southern (Dallas) accent. Just because he doesn't sound like a scholar doesn't mean he's slurring his words.

well, I don't want to get into a pissing match over whether he was or wasn't, but it sounded very much to me like the rhythm, speech pattern and content of someone who's been drinking, I've been around a lot of them over the years in the music business, and my living depends on hearing subtleties in pitch, rhythm and intonation. Like I very clearly said, this is an IF proposition. Neither of us has evidence, so I will leave it at that. Here's the link for the curious: http://media.knbr.com/knbr/nelson.mp3
One thing I can say is it is obvious that something went down between Diogu and him. His quote "I'm mad at him right now so I better not say much" and then proceeding to rip him far more harshly than any other warrior, including the underpeformers Dunleavy and Murphy, far more than what the rational eye can see as being warranted, confirms my suspicion that something is up between those two. Maybe Ike is just the thickheaded dummy that Nelson seems to think he is, maybe he is misused and is the next Truck Robinson as Uptempo thinks. Guess we'll find out when he or Nelson goes somewhere else

Good points.

Looking beyond the slurring, when one listens to the substance of what Nelson said, one can see how he, Nelson, does not want to be linked to the current roster. It is about time that someone from the GS Warriors can give us an honest evaluation of this roster.

Ike definitely needs to step up his game so that Nelson will give him more playing time. The kid can do it; he is talented; he is our best low block player.

On another note, is anyone listening to Damon Bruce tonight? Wow! He is going off on this Warrior team. Dunleavy,Murphy, Foyle and Mullin are all receiving the wrath.

uptempo wrote:

tradedunleavy wrote:Plus i think once Dunleavy is gone his BFF will start playing alot better. Dunleavy's attitude and haircut have rubbed off on murphy in the worst way.

What is a BFF?

A BFF stands for "Best Friend Forever". He's making a quip about Murphy and Dunleavy. Interesting point, though. That'd be a pleasant bonus to losing Dunleavy: an improved Troy Murphy. We can only hope...

And, colt, I agree with you very first sentence; I don't want to get into a pissing match over whether or not Nelson was slurring. Honestly, we'll never know and we won't convince each other differently.

#32 wrote:

uptempo wrote:

tradedunleavy wrote:Plus i think once Dunleavy is gone his BFF will start playing alot better. Dunleavy's attitude and haircut have rubbed off on murphy in the worst way.

What is a BFF?

A BFF stands for "Best Friend Forever". He's making a quip about Murphy and Dunleavy. Interesting point, though. That'd be a pleasant bonus to losing Dunleavy: an improved Troy Murphy. We can only hope...

And, colt, I agree with you very first sentence; I don't want to get into a pissing match over whether or not Nelson was slurring. Honestly, we'll never know and we won't convince each other differently.

As a combination, Murphy and Dunleavy should not be on the court together; they are both perimeter players. What happened to Murphy? When he came into the league, he was a nasty inside player, driving, banging, dunking, and getting into people's grills and talking trash. I really thought that this guy was going to be our enforcer.

#32 wrote:

uptempo wrote:

tradedunleavy wrote:And, colt, I agree with you very first sentence; I don't want to get into a pissing match over whether or not Nelson was slurring. Honestly, we'll never know and we won't convince each other differently.

A lot of good points have been made in this thread. I would add that Nelson hasn't just been accused of suspicious speech patterns all of a sudden here; he has a history.

While entertaining, and sometimes to the point, cutting your players down in public is very rately productive. Mostly it seems to make players worse because of fear or because they respond with a kind of passive aggression which makes them stubbornly stick with their patterns.

It also makes it harder to trade players! It is like a salesman trying to sell a car and telling the customer that it has poor acceleration and handling and is costly to operate as well. How about a little salesmanship!

In a recent interview with Tolbert, Nelson sounded pretty suspicious. Nelson brought up the K.AZ/exotic drink joke again as if it was the first telling and then said something to the effect that T was a player that screwed up everytime he put him in the game. That was kind of out of the blue, cruel and not appropriate for a peer discussion, in my opinion.

I, too, have know the type of alcoholic Colt speaks of. Charming and successful, even brilliant, then the whole thing caves in and they have to either get treated or move on and re-start their routine with a new audience. Some can keep this going for quite a while.

Sound familiar?

carlgo wrote:

#32 wrote:

uptempo wrote:

tradedunleavy wrote:And, colt, I agree with you very first sentence; I don't want to get into a pissing match over whether or not Nelson was slurring. Honestly, we'll never know and we won't convince each other differently.

A lot of good points have been made in this thread. I would add that Nelson hasn't just been accused of suspicious speech patterns all of a sudden here; he has a history.

While entertaining, and sometimes to the point, cutting your players down in public is very rately productive. Mostly it seems to make players worse because of fear or because they respond with a kind of passive aggression which makes them stubbornly stick with their patterns.

It also makes it harder to trade players! It is like a salesman trying to sell a car and telling the customer that it has poor acceleration and handling and is costly to operate as well. How about a little salesmanship!

In a recent interview with Tolbert, Nelson sounded pretty suspicious. Nelson brought up the K.AZ/exotic drink joke again as if it was the first telling and then said something to the effect that T was a player that screwed up everytime he put him in the game. That was kind of out of the blue, cruel and not appropriate for a peer discussion, in my opinion.

I, too, have know the type of alcoholic Colt speaks of. Charming and successful, even brilliant, then the whole thing caves in and they have to either get treated or move on and re-start their routine with a new audience. Some can keep this going for quite a while.

Sound familiar?

Alcohol is known as a truth revealer where people say what is really on their minds when they are drunk. Nelson, if anything, said what people have been afraid to say, yet know it is true, about Dunleavy, Murphy, and Foyle.

Yes, it sounds familiar.