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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:47 am
Edited since new redistro is underway
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:12 am
I don't have much time now, so I'll post my ratings later. Just a couple of quick points.

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:TMC - Head Coach: Red Auerbach
Roster: Big O, Baylor, Duncan, Earl "The Pearl", Thurmond, The Admiral, Walt Frazier, Worthy, Arenas, Mutombo, Spencer Haywood, Dale Ellis
- Every pick by TMC has been a good one, yet his team is still lacking superstar power. Oscar is not a leader or a winner and neither is baylor. Neither is arenas. As a result, this is a team that looks solid on paper but has no guy to take them over the top.


I've got that guy to take the team over the top. It's right here:

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I don't know. I think the team can play succesfully against any other. It just needs to adapt to each rival. It's true that there's not a big time talent that can win any game by himself, but having a top coach should help.

Talking about coaches...

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Coltraning - Head Coach: Greg Popovic
Roster: MJ, Lebron, Walton, Nash, Dirk, Kidd, Carter, Cowens, Amare, Dantley, Ray Allen, Joe Fulks


Am I the only one that finds Pop a weird fit for that roster?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:23 pm
I'm not going to rank them because everyone will think that their team and their budies teams are the best. But being that i have NO friends on the board I will make my unbiased opinion on the teams.

ReggieLewis : Biggest team on the board, Kareem, Parish, Lanier, and the "Big E" Elvin Hayes.

coltraining; Appears to be weak at center Walton, and Cowens.

Jaypat: Small team except for Wilt. Appears to have a lot of fire power.

the pestilence: Not enough scorers. Magic, Rodman, Mourning, Lucas, Artest, Robertson, and Dennis Johnson.

xbayarea: big team but appears to lack speed.

Migya: I rally like this team except for Grant Hill.

TMC: Where's the speed besides Arenas?

Thunder: Not athletic enough for me. speed could be an issue.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:09 pm
ReginaldLewis wrote:being that i have NO friends on the board


::lol:

Nobody is going after you, Reggie. It's just that I think that some of your picks (not only yours, also some picks from other people) have been weird or a bit too early. But it's just an opinion. You probably think the same about some of my picks. It's just an assessment from my point of view, doesn't mean I'm right and you're not.

Gonna do a quick rating of the teams and tomorrow will do the team by team analysis (btw, I'm not going to include mine. I'm terribly biased towards some of those players, so I wouldn't be fair. I think it's better this way).


1.- Migya/Colt for the best team.

2.- Pest.

3.- Also a tie for the next one: Reggielewis and Jaypat.

4.-Thunder

5.- Xbay (sorry, buddy, but some picks were like "wtf?. has he really picked Chris Paul? :mrgreen: ")


As I've said, tomorrow I'll post a team-by-team review.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:14 pm
TMC wrote:
ReginaldLewis wrote:being that i have NO friends on the board


::lol:

Nobody is going after you, Reggie. It's just that I think that some of your picks (not only yours, also some picks from other people) have been weird or a bit too early. But it's just an opinion. You probably think the same about some of my picks. It's just an assessment from my point of view, doesn't mean I'm right and you're not.

Gonna do a quick rating of the teams and tomorrow will do the team by team analysis (btw, I'm not going to include mine. I'm terribly biased towards some of those players, so I wouldn't be fair. I think it's better this way).


1.- Migya/Colt for the best team.

2.- Pest.

3.- Also a tie for the next one: Reggielewis and Jaypat.

4.-Thunder

5.- Xbay (sorry, buddy, but some picks were like "wtf?. has he really picked Chris Paul? :mrgreen: ")


As I've said, tomorrow I'll post a team-by-team review.


COOL! :)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:55 pm
Here are some numbers for everyone:

Championship Rings on team

xBay - 38
Thunder - 21
Pest - 21
Reggie - 15
TMC - 12
John P - 12
Colt - 10
Migya - 5


Players on SLAM's top 75 all time and their rankings

Colt - 1, 24, 43, 61, 73
John P - 2, 19, 22, 25, 27, 30, 45, 47, 51, 63
Reggie - 7, 21, 23, 40, 53, 57, 56, 62, 71
Pest - 5, 13, 16, 42, 46, 49, 59, 63, 69
xBay - 4, 10, 17, 29, 31, 39, 41, 58, 64
Migya - 6, 12, 28, 35, 50, 70, 75
TMC - 3, 11, 20, 32, 33, 36, 55, 57, 68
Thunder - 8, 9, 14, 15, 18, 26, 44

SLAM skewed this list highly in favor of older players, but it nevertheless means something.

I doubt I'll convince any of you that my team isn't in the bottom rung of the group, but I'll try to defend them at least. That is to say I don't think they're the best either, but they are somewhere in the middle to top.

My take on a few picks (best pick/steal; worst pick/reach):

Colt - Nash; Walton
2 time MVP PGs are rare and landing one in the 4th is a coup. Walton, however, is overrated and injury prone - you could've got him in the 5th round I bet.

John P - Payton; Richmond
I have Payton behind Magic, Big O, Stockton, and Frazier on the all time PG list and tied with Nash. To get him that late was a steal. Richmond is a default reach, just because I think specialty players are more suited for the 11th/12th rounds.

Reggie - Iverson; Miller
Iverson is perhaps the most underrated scorer ever. Miller is just a shooter. A clutch shooter, but just a shooter. You probably could have got him a few rounds later.

Pest - Moses; Artest
Moses is a second round pick, not a third. Artest, although a DPOY, is the only player drafted who may actually hurt a team. His bad attitude and offensive inabilities are huge knocks plus he's literally destroyed a team's season. I wouldn't have picked him at all and certainly not 9th round.

xBay - Reed; Thomas
Reed in the 7th may be the steal of the draft. Thomas, although a great player, might have been around in the 4th and drafting a PG who has a big ego issue is dangerous.

Migya - Hakeem, Ewing; Maravich, Hardaway
I should have taken Hakeem 9th. TMC should have taken him 10th. Oops. Ewing too was a steal. Maravich and Hardaway were taken too early and aren't that great of PGs. Maravich is more of a slight reach but I thought Timmy was an 11th to 12th round pick, not a 7th.

TMC - Frazier; Ellis
Frazier would start on most of our teams and yet he's TMC's backup. Ellis, I feel, was a waste of a pick. Carmelo, Peja, Glen Rice, and Schrempf are all in the free agent pool and have more utility than Ellis.

Thunder - West; Havlicek
Oh how I wish I could go back and take Hakeem instead of the logo. West is great, but he is a combo guard with little athleticism. He's probably a second round pick, but he's more of a late second round pick. Havlicek, however, is a top 15 player and I took him 24th overall. The guy was a winner like Russell, could score and defend like Pippen, and played like Rip Hamilton on a meth binge. Pest's coach, Red Holtzman, describes him as thus:

"On stamina alone he'd be among the top players who ever played the game. It would've been fair to those who had to play him or those who had to coach against him if he had been blessed only with his inhuman endurance. God had to compound it by making him a good scorer, smart ballhandler and intelligent defensive player with quickness of mind, hands and feet."

I'm not going to rank teams, I think every team has a strength and a weakness. Plus, anyone can argue for or against any other team and have valid points. Nobody drafted an air tight team.

-TMC (great top to bottom, but questions as to if any one player can take over the game for him)

-Migya (Bird +Hakeem is great, but lack of solid depth and on two players who have won it all)

-Thunder (Very good half court team but athleticism/speed issues)

-Pest (A lot of talent but Kobe + Artest + Rodman - a coach who can keep them in line = guarenteed meltdown. A third of your team has had court cases against them)

-John P (Wilt is not enough size by himself. Too weak inside although very good perimeter play)

-Colt (No one inside who can match up with the super bigs. Will be like the Phoenix Suns of 2004)

-Reggie (Lots of size but AI won't pass them the ball and if you play your backup PGs you'll have a disadvantage at that position all the time)

-xBay (a ton of winners but lack of offensive firepower)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:14 pm
Well, for what it's worth, I wasn't involved in the draft, so I can give you a guys a truly unbiased analysis. Here's my opinion, from the outside looking in:

* * * * * * * *

COLTRANING - Center and power forward is not as major of an issue as one would think. Don't forget; Michael Jordan made Scottie Pippen a future hall-of-famer. How good did Drew Gooden look during last season's playoffs? And what has Steve Nash done throughout his entire career? I love this team because it's packed with players that make everybody else better. Personally, I'd start Nash, Jordan, LeBron, Dirk, and Walton. The point guard spot doesn't miss a beat, going from Nash to Kidd (which is important, because the chemistry of the team is going to be consistent). Poppovich should feel right at home with Bill Walton in the middle (another Big Fundamental). Unfortunately, Joe Fulks looks a bit out of place on this roster, but he's a 12th man, so it's really not a problem. I'd be interesting to see if Jordan (whose, traditionally, played in a half-court setting) would be as effective in a run-and-gun lineup (Nash, LeBron, Kidd, Carter, Amare).

Overall, the combined effort of Nash, Kidd, LeBron, and Jordan would push everybody else's games into the stratusfear. I give this team an 8.5/10.

JOHN PATRICK - Charles Barkley and Gary Payton are interesting picks to place on a tight-lipped Larry Brown ship. How long do you think that would have lasted in real life? A week? Maybe a week and a half? But I think, aside from the coaching, the set-up almost works. Wilt Chamerlain inside is franchise enough for any team; but being able to kick it out to a Chris Mullin or a Mitch Ritchmond is almost unfair. Barkley looks out of place (how many rebounds or post-plays is HE gonna get, next to the Dipper?), Chris Bosh is kind of a bold pick (especially for an 'all-time' thread), and the point guard tempo's would be completely off-the-wall. Cousy is a runner and Payton plays half-court (due to his outsided touch). I can see Glove working with this lineup, but not so much with Cousy. Bernard King, George Gervin, and Dominique Wilkins all bring firepower, but they're all (basically) the same player. It would have been nice to see a better 3-point shooting PG and PF on this lineup (to compliment Mullin and Ritchmond, who'd be eating up free 3-pointers off Wilt's constant double-teams). I mean, aside from Shaq's squad, who else would be able to play Chamberlain man-to-man?

Overall, I don't think Larry Brown is the best guy to coach this team (he's clearly a defensive coach... which is a weakness, aside from Wilt and Payton). And Charles Barkley was a wasted pick. Pairing Chamberlain with a megastar guard would have been a stroke of genius; but now the key seems too crowded. I give this team a 6.5/10.

REGGIE LEWIS - THIS is the sort of lineup that John Patrick should have been going for. With Kareem holding down the paint, the outside majorly opens up... and who does he have to toss it to? Reggie Miller, Allen Iverson, Rick Barry, and Alex English. Its tough to imagine Iverson not being a #1 offensive option, but (for this team to succeed) the offensive would need to run through Abdul-Jabbar. Lenny Wilkins is a decent fit for this team; he enjoys the half-court style (which is clearly their strength). Tony Parker is a question mark on this roster, but the rest of it makes sense. Cheif is a good, similar sub for Kareem. And the tempo doesn't wack out when Iverson and Parker swap places. The pieces all fit; so they'd be in the runnings. But, in a legend's finals, nobody can say for sure.

Overall, I'd give it a 8.0/10. Everything fits, but they might get run over by a squad with more star power.

PESTILENCE - Red Holtzman and Magic Johnson is a stroke of genius. Johnson and Archibald both play uptempo styles. Rodman, the Malones, and Mourning on the glass is scary. Artest, Rodman, and Mourning on the floor at the same time is unfair. And, to top it all off, they have Mr. 81 in the background, too?!? On the floor (and on paper), it all makes sense. The only question mark is ego: I've seen the Mailman and Zo accept minor roles for the good of their team; but what happens when Magic and Kobe both want to be "the man" on their squad? And does anybody else think that Ron Artest and Dennis Rodman might end up in a cage match before the 10th game of the season? If everything were basketball, this team would dominate the competition. But offcourt issues are the only thing that may bury this squad. It's too bad Phil Jackson wasn't available to calm these ego's.

Overall, it's an easy 9.0/10. The only question marks on the team have nothing to do with basketball.

XBAYAREAWARRIORX - Pat Riley was a perfect fit with Bill Russell. Dr. J? Not so much. I think this team has too many centers (Russell, Mikan, Captain, Gilmore) and not enough power forwards. One could argue that they'd play one of their 5's at PF, but that tanks the Paul/Zeke tempo that they need to thrive. Speaking of which, Paul and Thomas don't seem like the right kind of point guards for Chris Webber, Julius Erving, George Mikan, Bill Russell, or Willis Reed. Pippen and Wade's styles kind of mesh, so that might be the best duo this lineup can manage. I love the Bill Russell pick, but Dr. J wasn't a good next choice... and it just becomes a blur from there.

Overall, it's a 5.5/10 team. Russell can only take you so far, and the rest of the squad looks like a potluck of semi-franchise players (Webber? Pippen? Erving? Wade? None of them have achieved anything without a lot of help).

MIGYA - Aside from Bellamy and Maravich, this entire team came out of the Golden Age of basketball. Hakeem inside and Bird outside is unmatched. Garnett is a great compliment to Olajuwon because he can play inside or outside. Ewing and Brand look like the same sort of duo. And Phil Jackson doesn't really have any egos (aside from, maybe, McGrady's) to tame. Grant Hill was an iffy pick, but that's pretty much it. Pierce was a nice late pickup. Another thing is that Maravich, Hardaway, and Johnson all play an uptempo style; which suits the team well. Jackson seems like a bit of overkill to coach this group (since there are no ego's to calm and they'll get to the Finals, no matter what), but I don't think it matters. Great individual talent that appears to have great chemistry.

Overall, an easy 9.0/10.

TMC - Red can make pretty much any squad better. And this team has solid pieces. The problem is... a couple key pieces look a bit lukewarm. Elgin Baylor could have easily been had 2 rounds later; and, still, he's not start-worthy for an "all-time" team. Earl Monroe is another iffy choice (out of all the available guards throughout time, you'd have him starting on your squad?). Oscar was a great choice... and Duncan's an excellent compliment to him, but the bench seems kind of stale, besides Robinson and Frazier. James Worthy and Elgin Baylor leave a lot to be desired at SF. Nate Thurmond's backup (Spencer Haywood) is a huge dropoff. And picking Arenas is like picking Chris Paul. Dale Ellis is a decent final pick, but I can't see this team climbing over migya, Pest, or colt's lineup.

Overall, it's a 7.5/10. Baylor and Monroe could have been better picks for the starting 5.

THUNDER - John Stockton is a running point guard. He thrives off top-of-the-key steals and open court transition. Shaquille O'Neal does not. When picking a guy like Shaq or Wilt, the best possible thing to put them with would be a shooter (since they demand so many double teams), but I can't see one on this team that really demands a lot of outside respect. I mean, Stockton, West, Dumars, Drexler... they're all decent from the outside, I guess... but it would have been wise to put Shaq with a Reggie Miller, Steve Kerr, Chris Mullin, Larry Bird, ect type of player. Someone who, if left open, will knock it down, 100% of the time. This team is lacking that. Chuck Daly and Shaq would hit it off because of Daly's coaching of Darryl Dawkins (who, I can't believe nobody picked), but I can't really see any roles for Yao or Ben Wallace on this team. McHale is wasted next to Shaq, but would find a great niche with Yao or Wallace. Pettit, on the other hand, is best suited to be the midrange threat complimenting Shaq's inside force. Marion is an awkward pick, but every roster has one. Overall, the tempo-clash and lack of a role for many key players would bury this squad.

I'm giving it a 7.0/10. Shaquille O'Neal can make a star out of anyone, but I don't think Jerry West, John Stockton, Bob Pettit, or Joe Dumars are athletic enough to fully enjoy the bennefits of playing next to Shaquille O'Neal.

* * * * * * * *

Anyways, thats my two cents. I think Miggy and Pest would duke it out in the Finals, but it's anyone's guess as to who would win.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:51 pm
Great thread #32. I personally appreciate your unbiased opinion. even if my team was not the highest rated. With that thought in mind #32. What is your opinion about David Thompson, Calvin Murphy, and Lenny Wilkens as a player?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:04 pm
Know what would be interesting? This is probably a bad idea but maybe we could start a "trades" thread for this league. Trading some players that don't fit would help.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:33 pm
ReginaldLewis wrote:Great thread #32. I personally appreciate your unbiased opinion. even if my team was not the highest rated. With that thought in mind #32. What is your opinion about David Thompson, Calvin Murphy, and Lenny Wilkens as a player?

David Thompson had insane talent and plenty of athletic gifts, but not a lot of motivation against his drug problems. His attitude makes him a question mark on any lineup; but he can be a factor when his head's in the game. The problem is; more often than not, his head was OUT of the game.

Calvin Murphy is a decent backup PG. I see him as a 70's version of Tony Parker; quick as hell, great FG%, not tall enough to be a SG, and a poor 3-point shooter. His defense is what makes him a real value.

Lenny Wilkens is extremely talented and extremely underrated. Point guards who put up 16 points, 7 assists, and 5 rebounds a night are always welcomed. He's got an amazing basketball IQ, but I'm not sure he's athletic enough to put up those kind of numbers in any generation of ball.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:41 pm
#32 wrote:
ReginaldLewis wrote:Great thread #32. I personally appreciate your unbiased opinion. even if my team was not the highest rated. With that thought in mind #32. What is your opinion about David Thompson, Calvin Murphy, and Lenny Wilkens as a player?

David Thompson had insane talent and plenty of athletic gifts, but not a lot of motivation against his drug problems. His attitude makes him a question mark on any lineup; but he can be a factor when his head's in the game. The problem is; more often than not, his head was OUT of the game.

Calvin Murphy is a decent backup PG. I see him as a 70's version of Tony Parker; quick as hell, great FG%, not tall enough to be a SG, and a poor 3-point shooter. His defense is what makes him a real value.

Lenny Wilkens is extremely talented and extremely underrated. Point guards who put up 16 points, 7 assists, and 5 rebounds a night are always welcomed. He's got an amazing basketball IQ, but I'm not sure he's athletic enough to put up those kind of numbers in any generation of ball.


Thanks, I appreciate your knowledge of the game.

P.S. Calvin was one of the greatest free throw shooters of all time. I think he still holds the consecutive free throw streak. he was 90% for 5 years in a row. Only Rick Barry was better at 90% for 7 years in a row.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:05 pm
ReginaldLewis wrote:P.S. Calvin was one of the greatest free throw shooters of all time. I think he still holds the consecutive free throw streak. he was 90% for 5 years in a row. Only Rick Barry was better at 90% for 7 years in a row.

Of course he kept the consecutive free throw streak because he stalked Mahmoud Abdul Rauf. the referee allowed him to throw the ball to mahmoud for the tying free throw and mahmoud missed it :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:19 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
ReginaldLewis wrote:P.S. Calvin was one of the greatest free throw shooters of all time. I think he still holds the consecutive free throw streak. he was 90% for 5 years in a row. Only Rick Barry was better at 90% for 7 years in a row.

Of course he kept the consecutive free throw streak because he stalked Mahmoud Abdul Rauf. the referee allowed him to throw the ball to mahmoud for the tying free throw and mahmoud missed it :mrgreen:


Wow! I didn't know that. Thanks.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:13 pm
#32 wrote:JOHN PATRICK - Charles Barkley and Gary Payton are interesting picks to place on a tight-lipped Larry Brown ship. How long do you think that would have lasted in real life? A week? Maybe a week and a half? But I think, aside from the coaching, the set-up almost works. Wilt Chamerlain inside is franchise enough for any team; but being able to kick it out to a Chris Mullin or a Mitch Ritchmond is almost unfair. Barkley looks out of place (how many rebounds or post-plays is HE gonna get, next to the Dipper?), Chris Bosh is kind of a bold pick (especially for an 'all-time' thread), and the point guard tempo's would be completely off-the-wall. Cousy is a runner and Payton plays half-court (due to his outsided touch). I can see Glove working with this lineup, but not so much with Cousy. Bernard King, George Gervin, and Dominique Wilkins all bring firepower, but they're all (basically) the same player. It would have been nice to see a better 3-point shooting PG and PF on this lineup (to compliment Mullin and Ritchmond, who'd be eating up free 3-pointers off Wilt's constant double-teams). I mean, aside from Shaq's squad, who else would be able to play Chamberlain man-to-man?

Overall, I don't think Larry Brown is the best guy to coach this team (he's clearly a defensive coach... which is a weakness, aside from Wilt and Payton). And Charles Barkley was a wasted pick. Pairing Chamberlain with a megastar guard would have been a stroke of genius; but now the key seems too crowded. I give this team a 6.5/10.


The coaching is a legit issue... but some of your other claims are questionable. Barkeley will get plenty of block time because A) Chamberlain won't play all 48 minutes and B) if the other frontcourt guy crashes on Chamberlain, Barkeley will be right there to take the pass for an easy bucket. And don't forget that Barkeley can play the perimeter and cause a nightmare for the perimeter defense.

Another thing I like about my team is the complete versatility. If it's a halfcourt team, no problem. Give it to Wilt, and let him score or kick out or whatever. A lineup of Payton, Gervin, Mullin, Barkeley, Chamberlain is ideal in this situtation. But if it's a run and gun team, I'll match them as well. Imagine Bob Cousy on the break with D. Wilkins, Bernard King and Hal Greer. Bosh is agile for a big man and has perimeter game.

When you say "better shooting PG and PF", I'm not sure what you mean. Gary Payton, Cousy (.38 CAREER 3PT shooter), Bosh, Charles Barkeley all not only can shoot the 3, but can be serious threats and give defense a headache if too many shooters are out on the floor.

You also comment that my defense is a weakness. Although not nearly as great as Pest's defensive oriented team, and not as good as my offense it is not a weakness. Payton and Wilt are excellent defenders, Hal Greer is a great and underrated defender, Gervin, D. Wilkins, M. Richmond all averaged over a steal a game, B. King about a steal a game. Unseld was good at preventing post player from getting position in the lane. No way it can be called a weakness.

You finish by saying "pairing Chamberlain with a megastar guard would have been a stroke of genius". Since when is Payton, Richmond, Hal Greer (who's underrated) not stars? Having Gervin, Dominque Wilkins, and Bernard King cutting and slashing through the lane for easy lay ups while Mullin, Richmond, Payton prowls around on the perimeter is plenty of firepower to me.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:25 pm
When you say "better shooting PG and PF", I'm not sure what you mean. Gary Payton, Cousy (.38 CAREER 3PT shooter), Bosh, Charles Barkeley all not only can shoot the 3, but can be serious threats and give defense a headache if too many shooters are out on the floor.

Bosh is 26% from the 3pt line with 56 career attempts coming into tonight. I wouldn't say he can shoot. Payton is not a shooter, shooting 32% from the 3pt line for his career. Cousy was not at all a shooter, shooting .375 from the FIELD for his career (not the three, as you stated. there were no threes back then). Barkley is a 26% three point shooter. All the guys who you said were three point threats had about the same three point prowess as dunleavy.
You finish by saying "pairing Chamberlain with a megastar guard would have been a stroke of genius". Since when is Payton, Richmond, Hal Greer (who's underrated) not stars? Having Gervin, Dominque Wilkins, and Bernard King cutting and slashing through the lane for easy lay ups while Mullin, Richmond, Payton prowls around on the perimeter is plenty of firepower to me.

He said "megastar" for a reason. Imagine if you had steve Nash with Wilt. Nash may or may not be better than 17 assist per game Cousy, but his top ten all time shooting would devastate the other teams with wilt out there. With your lack of three point shooting, teams will 2-3 and even 1-4 you, daring your to take the outside shot.
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