Fitzgerald - Dunleavy Interview

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:37 am
O.G. broe wrote:TMC to partially answer your question some of those coaches wouldn't even get a interview or consideration otherwise, Good example Ron Washington and Dave Stewart was screwed over :!:


Yeah, but is it worthy?.

I mean, I remember when the Lions picked Mariucci that they went straight for him. He was the guy they wanted and he signed in two days. Any interview for any other coach would have been a facade (if I remember correctly, the Lions said the same thing and refused to make any interview for a coach they didn't want... and the league fined them for doing so!!!).

I just think that it's a pretty stupid rule. You always go for the guy you want, no matter the background. If the league forces you to interview other guys, you'll do so to avoid the fine, not because they have any real chance.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:20 am
O.G. broe wrote:
migya wrote:
dino520 wrote:Another thing that`s dumb...is referring to white men as "white boys". I find it offensive, especially in the way that it`s usually used... derogatorily and an as epithet. You wouldn`t like the expression "black boy" now would you? Just something to think about.



There definately is an imbalance in recent years where it is alright to use expressions like "white boy" but not alright to say "black man" or something. I don't find these names offensive, especially if they are not meant to be offensive. People just need to calm down.

Like Chris Rock said - There are black people and there are nigggers. Same with whites and asians and everyone! There are decent people and there are idiots!


:shock: #-o Very offensive quote mod Migya, and I agree with you dino520 on the slur, I'm outta this wack ignorant insensitive thread...



Only because you are one of these people who overreact and don't step back and see things in a total view!!!!!!!!!

Name calling is different to friendly use of expressions, as is used by comedians and some famous people alot!

It is attitudes and actions that are more of a problem
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:55 am
migya wrote:
coltraning wrote:
dino520 wrote:Another thing that`s dumb...is referring to white men as "white boys". I find it offensive, especially in the way that it`s usually used... derogatorily and an as epithet. You wouldn`t like the expression "black boy" now would you? Just something to think about.

I find any racial slurs offensive and a sign of a lazy mind. Did someone use the phrase white boys? I think Richard Pryor's revelation on the "n" word is far more observant than is Rock's...



I'm not saying that peole should just casually use these expressions but with people you know, it can be alright. Making alot out of expressions just clouds people's minds to what real racism is, like not employing someone because of their skin colour. Words can be harmful but actions and attitudes are what really offend and oppress!

I see it all as being part of a continuum, bro. I know you have good politics (maybe not towards women :mrgreen:) but as a general rule, the first step to violence towards a group is to dehumanize by taking away the individual by reducing to a stereotype. By the way, racial stereotypes can be positive and still harmful to seeing folks individual for individual. As a high level musician, I can attest to the fact that many blacks and Latinos have terrible rhythm, and as a Jewish guy I can tell you I have met some really dumb Jews, contrary to popular belief. I think words often lead to action. I do see when Borat shows up anti-semites or Chapelle calls whites on ignorant attitudes, both in the guise of seeming to endorse the hate they are mocking. That, like Chris Rock or lenny Bruce is another story. :wink:
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:08 pm
migya wrote:
O.G. broe wrote:
migya wrote:
dino520 wrote:Another thing that`s dumb...is referring to white men as "white boys". I find it offensive, especially in the way that it`s usually used... derogatorily and an as epithet. You wouldn`t like the expression "black boy" now would you? Just something to think about.



There definately is an imbalance in recent years where it is alright to use expressions like "white boy" but not alright to say "black man" or something. I don't find these names offensive, especially if they are not meant to be offensive. People just need to calm down.

Like Chris Rock said - There are black people and there are nigggers. Same with whites and asians and everyone! There are decent people and there are idiots!


:shock: #-o Very offensive quote mod Migya, and I agree with you dino520 on the slur, I'm outta this wack ignorant insensitive thread...



Only because you are one of these people who overreact and don't step back and see things in a total view!!!!!!!!!

Name calling is different to friendly use of expressions, as is used by comedians and some famous people alot!

It is attitudes and actions that are more of a problem

Sorry You are the one that needs to step back and see the big picture of what you are quoting Chris Rock saying that you agree with (That there are Black people and there are N' Words ) Either you are clueless, Ignorant or sadly both period. Bottom line you are not black and would get your ass kicked in the USA if you said this quote and meant it, REAL TALK :!: Trust me don't repeat what Chris Rock or Kramer Say's :roll: And don't try to flip this like I am trippin when you don't understand the magnitude of your insensitive remarks Mod Migya....
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:34 pm
I gotta jump back in here. I don`t think my comments are an over-reaction at all. The discussion was about somebody`s perceived racial bias regarding Fitz and Jim(which I think is ludicrous)..I`ve been listening to their comments for years and frequently hear them comment on the intelligence of various black players. Reginald`s comment sounded like he was expressing the same bias and prejudice that he was accusing Fitz of. Reread his quote (I don`t know how to post it)..and if you`re open minded I think you`ll recognize it. The prejudice (prejudice simply means to prejudge) I`m talking about is the presumption by many blacks that white men are all naive, pampered, priviledged rich kids from the suburbs. The other point I`m making is that the expression "white boy"..is used as an oblique put down..a diss if you will. I could give you dozens of examples..but you guys are not stupid and you know exactly what I`m talking about. If it`s not ok to refer to black men as black boys..then it`s not ok to refer to white men as white boys. It`s about mutual respect..and it starts with the language we use to refer to each other. It`s not a one way street if we want to make any progress in this country...

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:56 pm
coltraning wrote:
ReginaldLewis wrote:
zshook wrote:
tradedunleavy wrote:He always gives white guys more credit than the black guys. Pay attention.


That statement is just dumb.


The statement is not dumb. It is true that he falls into the old stereo type that blacks are athletic and whites are smart. zshook, If you watch the games you will notice that he badgers Pietrus and Monta mercilessly. while he gives Dunleavy and Murphy a pass. I have seen both Murphy and Dunleavy make some of the dumbest decisions and Fitz will routinely blame it on Pietrus or Monta. But like you say, it is not racist but I do believe it is cutural. Fitz loves Adonyls intelligence. Fitz respects the higher learned ball players (Murphy-Notre Dame , Fitz alma mater), (Dunleavy-Duke), (Foyle-Colgate). Monta, Pietrus, Biedrins, high schoolers. But what Fitz fell to realize is that those colleges don't equate to basketball IQ. Who in the NBA makes smarter decisions than Jason Kidd? Two years of playing basketball only at Cal. Graduating high school at 20 years old. Chris Webber, 1 year, Sahrif Abdur Rahim,1 year. Kevin Garnett, Rashard Lewis, Lebron James, high schoolers. Fitz is not a racist, just a pompous elites, never played any sports, last chosen in his gym class, well-to-do, suburb raised, white boy who is very ignorant in sports knowledge.

I agree, it is cultural baggage, whether you want to call it racist or not, and so much of it is at an unconscious level. For instance, Steve Nash is rarely described as "athletic", but, by all accounts, he was so extraordinarily athletic that many who know him believe he could have been a pro in baseball, hockey or soccer as well. Other caucasians who are amazingly athletic include Kirilenko, Jason Williams and our own Biedrins, but that rarely gets discussed. Conversely, Lebron, Shaq and JKidd are extremely smart players, but we tend to hear about their "athleticism" or in Shaq's case, his bulk. Why? Magic and Kareem and Bill Russell are 3 of the smartest players who ever played the game, and yet their basketball intelligence is rarely discussed. One has to ask why. Why do we still hear about smarts and work ethic when white bball players are discussed, but it is all athleticism when it comes to blacks? Did anyone have more of a work ethic than MJ or Magic? I doubt it. I agree that some of Dung's decisions have been breathtakingly stupid on the court. It seems that his decision-making and recognition is a split second slow, a split second that is fatal at this level and that involves thinking. I think Fitz is a dutiful suburban white liberal who cuts slack to Dung, mainly cause he can identify with him.


THANK YOU COL, YOU SAID IT BETTER THAN I DID. I remeber the great George Gervin say " It's not I'm a natural athlete, I shoot that shot 1,000 times a day, every day."
Last edited by The Coooach on Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:58 pm
migya wrote:
dino520 wrote:Another thing that`s dumb...is referring to white men as "white boys". I find it offensive, especially in the way that it`s usually used... derogatorily and an as epithet. You wouldn`t like the expression "black boy" now would you? Just something to think about.



There definately is an imbalance in recent years where it is alright to use expressions like "white boy" but not alright to say "black man" or something. I don't find these names offensive, especially if they are not meant to be offensive. People just need to calm down.

Like Chris Rock said - There are black people and there are nigggers. Same with whites and asians and everyone! There are decent people and there are idiots!


I don't mind whites saying black boys, as long it is not in a derogatory manner.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:05 pm
dino520 wrote:Someone asked if somebody here used the "white boy" expression..it was Reginald Lewis several posts back when he was describing Fitz`s background. Tho I have no idea how he happens to know those particular details. And his comments sounded kinda racially biased to me anyway. Nevertheless...the expression is offensive for the reasons I already stated. And it goes w/o saying that the use of racial epithets by any race indicates an "attitude"...And bad attitudes frequently lead to bad actions.


If my use of the term "white boy" to help describe Fitz' attitude in obviously bias announcing. I'm sorry. met Fitz once and he actually gave my family 4 ticktes to a Warrior game. He is a nice guy but announces bias. If you read the rest of my article I actually defended shy Fitz is bias. If i upset you dino I apologize. I don't know you and you don't know me but anybody that read this forum on a regular basis know that I'm a straight up dude that hates Dunleavy (like everyone else) in an athletic sense.
Last edited by The Coooach on Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:09 pm
O.G. broe wrote:TMC to partially answer your question some of those coaches wouldn't even get a interview or consideration otherwise, Good example Ron Washington and Dave Stewart was screwed over :!:


A good example why this system is in place is because of people like Steve Mariucci. Marriucci was hired as a head coach without ever being and offensior or defensive coordinator(ususally the step before being and NFL head coach) and one losing season as a colege coach. Other than race, how did he get hired for the job befroe Denny Green, Tony Dungy, or Herm Edwards?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:27 pm
O.G. broe wrote:
migya wrote:
O.G. broe wrote:
migya wrote:
dino520 wrote:Another thing that`s dumb...is referring to white men as "white boys". I find it offensive, especially in the way that it`s usually used... derogatorily and an as epithet. You wouldn`t like the expression "black boy" now would you? Just something to think about.



There definately is an imbalance in recent years where it is alright to use expressions like "white boy" but not alright to say "black man" or something. I don't find these names offensive, especially if they are not meant to be offensive. People just need to calm down.

Like Chris Rock said - There are black people and there are nigggers. Same with whites and asians and everyone! There are decent people and there are idiots!


:shock: #-o Very offensive quote mod Migya, and I agree with you dino520 on the slur, I'm outta this wack ignorant insensitive thread...



Only because you are one of these people who overreact and don't step back and see things in a total view!!!!!!!!!

Name calling is different to friendly use of expressions, as is used by comedians and some famous people alot!

It is attitudes and actions that are more of a problem

Sorry You are the one that needs to step back and see the big picture of what you are quoting Chris Rock saying that you agree with (That there are Black people and there are N' Words ) Either you are clueless, Ignorant or sadly both period. Bottom line you are not black and would get your ass kicked in the USA if you said this quote and meant it, REAL TALK :!: Trust me don't repeat what Chris Rock or Kramer Say's :roll: And don't try to flip this like I am trippin when you don't understand the magnitude of your insensitive remarks Mod Migya....



Again you have your head in the sand broe! What Chris Rock said is that there are black people - Civilised, peaceful, don't instigate anything with anyone
AND
There are Nigggers - "some" black people who go around starting trouble, with guns and weapons sometimes, and do not further society and others positively!
That was not a racial slur at all but a labelling of how the "N" word as you say, should be used if used at all! Rock meant it like saying "dikhed" to someone that has instigated something!


Eveyone blurts out names and expressions from time to time, sometimes racially and hurtfully! Point here is - Words and expressions are not always used to hurt someone else! Fact is, some black people I know don't find it offensive if a friend of theirs says "what's up black man" and they know that they can turn around and say something like "how's it going white man" back and it is alright!


What is the issue (and it detracts from the real issue which is discrimination) is some people just see or hear what's in front of their face and don't look deeper to see the real meaning and the truth
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:31 pm
ReginaldLewis wrote:I don't mind whites saying black boys, as long it is not in a derogatory manner.



EXACTLY!

You don't devalue yourself by thinking something that isn't!
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:22 am
Migya..are you totally missing the point on purpose in an attempt to moderate? Yeah it`s about context and intent...if you have a (very) close black friend..you can probably get away with "Hey what`s up black man?" in a jocular familiar kinda way. Could you say the same thing to a black man you didn`t know without getting a strange look at the least? How about "What`s up black boy?"? I don`t think that`d fly either unless you were VERY close to that individual personally. And I still think you`d get a strange look. You wouldn`t yell "What`s up niggas?" at the mall would you? How about "What`s up black boy?" You wouldn`t say either of those things in a public place...and a chatroom/message board is a public place. And not only that..but the context in which he used the phrase WAS derogatory..and you know it. How about if I said one of the black players on the team was an ignorant uneducated black boy from the ghetto? How many seconds would pass before every member in here was all over me?

The fact is...most white people in America are afraid to criticize blacks about anything. But terms like honky..peckerwood and "white boy" aren`t funny anymore..and while some words are stronger than others in the amount of insult they convey..they`re all intentionally insulting.

And thanks Reginald for the apology..

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:57 am
migya you are Ignorant and sound like Kramer :banghead: Mod Yourself.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:14 am
dino520 wrote:Migya..are you totally missing the point on purpose in an attempt to moderate? Yeah it`s about context and intent...if you have a (very) close black friend..you can probably get away with "Hey what`s up black man?" in a jocular familiar kinda way. Could you say the same thing to a black man you didn`t know without getting a strange look at the least? How about "What`s up black boy?"? I don`t think that`d fly either unless you were VERY close to that individual personally. And I still think you`d get a strange look. You wouldn`t yell "What`s up niggas?" at the mall would you? How about "What`s up black boy?" You wouldn`t say either of those things in a public place...and a chatroom/message board is a public place. And not only that..but the context in which he used the phrase WAS derogatory..and you know it. How about if I said one of the black players on the team was an ignorant uneducated black boy from the ghetto? How many seconds would pass before every member in here was all over me?

The fact is...most white people in America are afraid to criticize blacks about anything. But terms like honky..peckerwood and "white boy" aren`t funny anymore..and while some words are stronger than others in the amount of insult they convey..they`re all intentionally insulting.

And thanks Reginald for the apology..




I understand your point completely but we are not robots and the point is - What was the meaning and attitude behind the expression or name called. Was it meant as a real insult, either in an arguement or whatever, or was it just a casual way of getting the attention of the individual or individuals that the expression was aimed at.

The best thing is obviously to eliminate use of expressions that relate to skin colour, race and so on because there can always be misinterpretation but right now, what must be understood is that expressions can be used unhurtfully and not to offend.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:23 am
ReginaldLewis wrote:A good example why this system is in place is because of people like Steve Mariucci. Marriucci was hired as a head coach without ever being and offensior or defensive coordinator(ususally the step before being and NFL head coach) and one losing season as a colege coach. Other than race, how did he get hired for the job befroe Denny Green, Tony Dungy, or Herm Edwards?


Same thing happened with Marinelli. No head coaching experience at any level, but he was the guy the Lions wanted... I just don't think the system works.

migya wrote:The best thing is obviously to eliminate use of expressions that relate to skin colour, race and so on because there can always be misinterpretation


God, I hope we don't have to come to that. We should only avoid using those expressions until we're sure they won't be misinterpreted. Shouldn't be that hard...
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