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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:16 am
migya wrote:
zero3zero wrote:Mullin will keep the young core. There is absolutely no reason he shouldn't, cap issues included. If we need to go with 6-7 well paid athletes and fill the rest of the roster with NBDL scrubs/undrafted rookies then so be it ***030***




Truth is, it's all about money and Cohan might value keeping some rather than spending more just for winning more. He might see that he wouldn't make a significant amount more money or actually not make more money if he spends more on contracts.

All about the money again


That's it. It's not all in Mullin's hands.

If we don't trade some bad contracts, they will want more income to keep all the players, so I woulnd't be surprised if they decide to raise the tickets a 50% to pay those contracts. Would people accept that?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:03 am
migya wrote:Truth is, it's all about money and Cohan might value keeping some rather than spending more just for winning more. He might see that he wouldn't make a significant amount more money or actually not make more money if he spends more on contracts.

All about the money again


It's just a disgrace. Their is no way a LOSING team should not be able to keep their good players. I mean if we have to tear the team down to keep these guys we should. I would rather lose BD at this point then Monta. If he averages 18 ppg this year, he will get some crazy offers in the offseason. I like Murphy and if it was up to me everyone would stay but him and Foyle have to be traded by any means neccesary. I would like to keep Dun around as a 6th man. If we packaged Pietrus, Murphy and Foyle together we could get an expiring contract and dealing that much talent we could actually get one that would help us alot this year. I don't know who's out there that fits that description, any ideas?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:36 pm
David Wood wrote:
migya wrote:Truth is, it's all about money and Cohan might value keeping some rather than spending more just for winning more. He might see that he wouldn't make a significant amount more money or actually not make more money if he spends more on contracts.

All about the money again


It's just a disgrace. Their is no way a LOSING team should not be able to keep their good players. I mean if we have to tear the team down to keep these guys we should. I would rather lose BD at this point then Monta. If he averages 18 ppg this year, he will get some crazy offers in the offseason. I like Murphy and if it was up to me everyone would stay but him and Foyle have to be traded by any means neccesary. I would like to keep Dun around as a 6th man. If we packaged Pietrus, Murphy and Foyle together we could get an expiring contract and dealing that much talent we could actually get one that would help us alot this year. I don't know who's out there that fits that description, any ideas?



I know where you're coming from. It is just a difficult situation and only solvable if players who already have an existing contract agree to reduce the amount they get paid in order to sign the younger players for being a successgul group of people. Somewhat inconceivable in this "greedy" humanity that exists right now but really, the only way to get true success and to be a true TEAM
Last edited by migya on Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:03 pm
David Wood wrote:
migya wrote:Truth is, it's all about money and Cohan might value keeping some rather than spending more just for winning more. He might see that he wouldn't make a significant amount more money or actually not make more money if he spends more on contracts.

All about the money again


It's just a disgrace. Their is no way a LOSING team should not be able to keep their good players. I mean if we have to tear the team down to keep these guys we should. I would rather lose BD at this point then Monta. If he averages 18 ppg this year, he will get some crazy offers in the offseason. I like Murphy and if it was up to me everyone would stay but him and Foyle have to be traded by any means neccesary. I would like to keep Dun around as a 6th man. If we packaged Pietrus, Murphy and Foyle together we could get an expiring contract and dealing that much talent we could actually get one that would help us alot this year. I don't know who's out there that fits that description, any ideas?

Grant Hill is the only player that fits the description you list. When healthy, he'd sew up the hole at 3/4 that Golden State is having Matt Barnes temporarily fix.

He's an expirer... which is both the good thing and the bad thing. It's good because that's what we need (someone who will play well and then take a big wad of money off the books next year)... but it's bad, too, because the Orlando Magic have absolutely no reason to do that trade.

Murphy's the meat of the trade... and he plays the same position as their star (Dwight Howard). I suppose they could move Howard to center and make Foyle his backup, while starting Pietrus in place of the departed Hill... but it just sounds like more trouble than it's worth for Orlando. Plus, they'd probably prefer taking all that cash that Hill leaves behind and putting it toward hooking a superstar via free agency; rather than tie it all up with a couple role-playing veterans.

Although, I must admit, if I'm Orlando, I'm salivating at the thought of Murphy and Howard dominating the glass inside. No other team would even touch the ball.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:16 pm
#32 wrote:Although, I must admit, if I'm Orlando, I'm salivating at the thought of Murphy and Howard dominating the glass inside. No other team would even touch the ball.



Firstly, Murphy has shown so far this season that he is not that great of a rebounder. I thought he was but it looks like TMC was right because now with Biedrins out there rebounding alot, Murphy is at a measily 6 and a bit rebounds a game, the worst in his career.

Darko Milicic is the future Center for the Magic (currently really) and getting a player to put in front of him is not the right thing to do, especially Murphy who is only better than Darko at outside shooting.

Grant Hill is also playing well right now and without him, the Magic would not have won some of their games this season
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:07 am
Murphy has been in an obvious funk due to the phantom mask he's forced to wear, protecting his broken nose. I don't think fair judgement can be made on his game until after it's removed for 5 or 6 games.

And, like I said, the Orlando idea was unlikely... but its (unfortunately) the most likely situation out there to move Murphy, Foyle, and Pietrus all at once for an expirer.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:27 am
migya wrote:I know where you're coming from. It is just a difficult situation and only solvable if players who already have an existing contract agree to reduce the amount they get paid


That can't be. The CBA does not allow to reduce the salary. Once the contract is signed, it can't be changed.

#32 wrote:Murphy has been in an obvious funk due to the phantom mask he's forced to wear, protecting his broken nose. I don't think fair judgement can be made on his game until after it's removed for 5 or 6 games.


The "phantom mask" is Biedrins. If he misses some games with injuries, I expect to see Murphy's numbers (mask or not) back to where they were in past seasons.

The mask excuse is a feeble one. Other players have used masks and played well (or even better than before. Just take a look at Rip Hamilton).

btw, I'm with migya here. The Magic future goes through Darko. I'm still not sold on him... but they should give him a chance before making moves they can regret later.
Last edited by TMC on Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:03 am
TMC wrote:
migya wrote:I know where you're coming from. It is just a difficult situation and only solvable if players who already have an existing contract agree to reduce the amount they get paid


That can't be. The CBA does not allow to reduce the salary. Once the contract is signed, it can't be changed.




Never knew that and don't agree with it. Players, if they agree to, should be allowed to negotiate their contracts at any time
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:20 am
migya wrote:
TMC wrote:
migya wrote:I know where you're coming from. It is just a difficult situation and only solvable if players who already have an existing contract agree to reduce the amount they get paid


That can't be. The CBA does not allow to reduce the salary. Once the contract is signed, it can't be changed.




Never knew that and don't agree with it. Players, if they agree to, should be allowed to negotiate their contracts at any time


Yeah, I'd also rather have a more flexible system, but that's how it works.

Not everything is bad, tho, as it also protects the teams against players demanding constant raises.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:51 am
migya wrote:Since the team does have Baron and JRich, Monta is not as valuable as Biedrins, who is the only real good Center and shot blocker on the team. That doesn't mean that everything shouldn't be done to resign Ellis but if it looks like he won't be resigned, he should be traded along with one of the bad contacts


anybody in their right mind knows that ellis has more upside than richardson, he can match his production today. what year is jrich in now? 5 or 6? how good will monta be by then? so let me start with what monta is better at already at his age. hes a better free throw shooter. he's a better defender because he's quicker, hes more of a pure shooter than richardson, he can finish inside epecially 3point plays, better than richardson. and i'll bet my stack of chips that he has a better basketball IQ. and to think hes in his second year out of high school... beidrins and ellis, absolutely need to stay... even if it means richardson, or davis... there i said it but can you argue? if we traded baron or j-rich, wed have enough money to sign both. getting rid of murphy and dunleavy? now thats just downright greedy...basically what im saying is we can get 2 for 1 if we trade a guy who actually has trade value, probably moreso jrich (barons contract is maxed and no guarantee about his injuries) then we'd be able to sign 2 kids who have showed just as much promise as anyone we've ever had around here and to think they are 2 years of out grade school.
"Losing is inevitably close to winning," Guber said. "They're inches apart. Drama. If you have drama, you've got a ticket to sell." "They're not real fans," Lacob said. "They don't have season tickets."
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:55 am
#32 wrote:
David Wood wrote:
migya wrote:Truth is, it's all about money and Cohan might value keeping some rather than spending more just for winning more. He might see that he wouldn't make a significant amount more money or actually not make more money if he spends more on contracts.

All about the money again


It's just a disgrace. Their is no way a LOSING team should not be able to keep their good players. I mean if we have to tear the team down to keep these guys we should. I would rather lose BD at this point then Monta. If he averages 18 ppg this year, he will get some crazy offers in the offseason. I like Murphy and if it was up to me everyone would stay but him and Foyle have to be traded by any means neccesary. I would like to keep Dun around as a 6th man. If we packaged Pietrus, Murphy and Foyle together we could get an expiring contract and dealing that much talent we could actually get one that would help us alot this year. I don't know who's out there that fits that description, any ideas?

Grant Hill is the only player that fits the description you list. When healthy, he'd sew up the hole at 3/4 that Golden State is having Matt Barnes temporarily fix.

He's an expirer... which is both the good thing and the bad thing. It's good because that's what we need (someone who will play well and then take a big wad of money off the books next year)... but it's bad, too, because the Orlando Magic have absolutely no reason to do that trade.

.


thats exactly right p32.The magic need Hills massive expiring contract to lock in Howard(an obvious max) Nelson(what,a ridnour/heinrich type deal) and maybe Darko.Thats a lot of $$
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:04 am
ChronicallyInclined wrote:anybody in their right mind knows that ellis has more upside than richardson, he can match his production today. what year is jrich in now? 5 or 6? how good will monta be by then? [i] so let me start with what monta is better at already at his age. hes a better free throw shooter. he's a better defender because he's quicker, hes more of a pure shooter than richardson, he can finish inside epecially 3point plays, better than richardson. and i'll bet my stack of chips that he has a better basketball IQ. and to think hes in his second year out of high school...


Well, you know, if we're going to compare players and what they mean to the team, I think Ellis should go in the same pack as Baron. J-Rich is a different kind of player. I mean, I can see J-Rich playing SF perfectly... while Monta is a combe PG/SG (not good enough yet as a PG, tho, but he's improved since last year).

What I mean is that would be a mistake getting rid of J-Rich. He's not in Monta's way. Both can play together perfectly fine...
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:32 am
ChronicallyInclined wrote:
migya wrote:Since the team does have Baron and JRich, Monta is not as valuable as Biedrins, who is the only real good Center and shot blocker on the team. That doesn't mean that everything shouldn't be done to resign Ellis but if it looks like he won't be resigned, he should be traded along with one of the bad contacts


anybody in their right mind knows that ellis has more upside than richardson, he can match his production today. what year is jrich in now? 5 or 6? how good will monta be by then? so let me start with what monta is better at already at his age. hes a better free throw shooter. he's a better defender because he's quicker, hes more of a pure shooter than richardson, he can finish inside epecially 3point plays, better than richardson. and i'll bet my stack of chips that he has a better basketball IQ. and to think hes in his second year out of high school... beidrins and ellis, absolutely need to stay... even if it means richardson, or davis... there i said it but can you argue? if we traded baron or j-rich, wed have enough money to sign both. getting rid of murphy and dunleavy? now thats just downright greedy...basically what im saying is we can get 2 for 1 if we trade a guy who actually has trade value, probably moreso jrich (barons contract is maxed and no guarantee about his injuries) then we'd be able to sign 2 kids who have showed just as much promise as anyone we've ever had around here and to think they are 2 years of out grade school.



You make a great point! Keeping Monta does seem like a must BUT let's not forget that though he has been great so far this season (and he should be a great player for the rest of his career), he is not a sure thing yet and has not shown such great contribution over as long a period of time as either JRich and baron. Both Monta and Biedrins have been so valuable so far this season and it would be great and almost imperative that they are kept!

This idea you have of maybe trading either Baron or JRich along with one of the bad contracts is a very viable idea and could be pure genius IF it turned out right! Big move it would be but a very viable one!

As to which one of Baron and JRich should be traded, as TMC said, JRich could play SF and Monta could develop into a PG but right now, it is a real nice thought having all three healthy and playing well together! What a one, two, three knockout they are and could be even more so! If I was to choose though, I'd trade Baron because, from a team perspective, Monta is already improving his PG abilities and Baron's health and contract are not the best! Baron's health is what really shiits me! The guy just is bound to get hurt and not play over and over again and that costs the team, both money and chances of being a real winner right now! On the other side, JRich's health is somewhat unknown with that knee of his and the future with him is somwhat uncertain, as there is a possibility that that knee could be a problem for the rest of his career!

I would definately enquire about trade packages involving both of them singularly with one or two of the bad contracts (Foyle, dun or Murphy). The talent of both Baron and JRich is undoubtably great but their future health certainly is uncertain, not like other great backcourts of the nba, like the Spurs' and the Pistons' ones.

Be great to keep all the players that are currently here but it won't happen and Mullin has the hardest job of all right now in having to make the decisions over the next year!
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:13 pm
TMC wrote:The "phantom mask" is Biedrins. If he misses some games with injuries, I expect to see Murphy's numbers (mask or not) back to where they were in past seasons.

The mask excuse is a feeble one. Other players have used masks and played well (or even better than before. Just take a look at Rip Hamilton).

I don't believe that. Murphy's numbers have been bad all season; even when Biedrins was getting fewer minutes.

As far as the Rip Hamilton example, I just think everybody's different. Obvious (anybody whose seen Murph's nose will agree), Murphy has a different, pointier face than Hamilton, so I can understand somebody like Murphy being uncomfortable under a plastic mask.

If Murphy loses the mask and STILL only averaged 6 rebounds a game, I'll agree with you. But I still think that mask bugs him in a MAJOR way. You see whenever the Warriors call a timeout? He can't wait to claw that mask off his face! Murphy takes the mask off almost immediately whenever the buzzer sounds; he doesn't even wait to leave the court, most of the time. I seriously can see it bugging him, so why wouldn't it effect his game?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:33 pm
Definitely no on trading J-Rich or Baron! It's ridiculous, if Monta pans out (which is still not for sure), he'll be only on the same level as them! No. Trade Murphy or Dunleavy or even Foyle (doubtful).
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