I never said it wasn't a mistake, just that we shouldn't have been in that situation.

I think if the Warriors had a choice, they too would choose to be up by 4 or 6 and with what appeared to be momentum...instead, not only did they not get the 2 points but the Pacers also scored. I don't see it as an excuse, but as one of several key contributing factors to why the Warriors lost last night, that is all...

We both know that this game is a game of runs... 10-0 run, etc... Warriors appeared to be on the verge of making that run when this goaltending issue occured...

coltraning wrote:I did not get to see the game (still out of town), so I have a question...on paper, it looks like Baron had a terrific game (24/9/9/2/3 is all-star), and yet I am reading from several comments that he went back to a lot of Baronball, one on one while everyone stood around. Is that accurate? I had thought Monta was bringing the ball up. What did people see?

As others have mentioned, Baron was great last night. He went to the basket hard, he shot well, he rebounded and distributed the basketball well. I was a bit disappointed with the last minute of the game with isolation and fadeaway jumpers. Even the one he made I thought was an ill-advised shot.

Now, I am not at all blaming Baron for this loss because he was magnificent. And for all I know, Nellie might have told Baron to take those kinds of shots in the last minute.

However, when you have a guy like Monta Ellis who has scored 13 points in the fourth quarter on jumpers and quick drives to the hoop and you do not even let him touch the ball in the last minute, I have a problem with that.

coltraning wrote:

#32 wrote:

coltraning wrote:I did not get to see the game (still out of town), so I have a question...on paper, it looks like Baron had a terrific game (24/9/9/2/3 is all-star), and yet I am reading from several comments that he went back to a lot of Baronball, one on one while everyone stood around. Is that accurate? I had thought Monta was bringing the ball up. What did people see?

Baron played amazingly; don't let anybody fool you of that.

The problem is, in the final seconds of the ball-game, we ran the same play back-to-back (both called for Baron to post up and shoot a fade-away jumper). Baron made the first one (with 40 seconds or so to go) and everyone went wild.

Baron missed the second one (with, like, 10 seconds left)... and, well... everyone needs a scapegoat, I guess.

Thanks...Yeah, it may have come to down to something as simple as Pacers made 2 huge 3s in the last 30 seconds. BTW, looks like Monta had another enormous game. It is odd, but with JRich out, no one is pulling their hair out, cause the best Ws backcourt is Baron and Monta, pretty much unstoppable. I know it sounds like heresy, but the Ws don't need a 60-70% JRich to win, so I hope he rests up and comes back completely healthy. When does Ike come back, cause they could use his inside presence?

It's not heresy, it's the truth. JRich has not been fitting into the offense well up to this point. The interview he did over the summer, that they keep showing, he talks about getting no respect and being fixated on making it to the allstar game. I believe he would have a much better chance to make it there if we win games. His points will come, but he also needs to be near the top of the NBA in some of the other categories as well. Right now he is not playing like that player.

I agree with others that he should learn more about our new offense, find his role, but mostly not play until he feels 100% healthy. He's definitely not helping his all star chances right now. And, as was already pointed out, the backcourt of Monta and Baron are more than holding their own without him right now.

ChicagoTom wrote:

coltraning wrote: Now, I am not at all blaming Baron for this loss because he was magnificent. And for all I know, Nellie might have told Baron to take those kinds of shots in the last minute.

However, when you have a guy like Monta Ellis who has scored 13 points in the fourth quarter on jumpers and quick drives to the hoop and you do not even let him touch the ball in the last minute, I have a problem with that.

Man I couldn't agree more. When Baron is standing out top dribbling the ball and everyone is watching, you just know disaster is coming. We lose so many points at the end of quarters due to this. Waiting til there are 6 or 7 seconds left and then trying to make something happen 1 vs 5 is ridiculous. I hope Nelly comes up with a better solution to this issue. Like letting Monta drive and kick or score or some kind of give and go with Andris. Even if they hack Andris we have a 50/50 chance of getting a point or two instead of no points at all.

ChicagoTom wrote:However, when you have a guy like Monta Ellis who has scored 13 points in the fourth quarter on jumpers and quick drives to the hoop and you do not even let him touch the ball in the last minute, I have a problem with that.

I don't.

Inconsistency is not something you need in a close game. Although the first 3 quarters of THIS game wasn't the hollocaust that Monta displayed against San Antonio, it was still the same design: inconsistent and rushed.

For some reason, Ellis is having a real tough time getting it going before the 4th quarter. Some of you might remember Richardson having this same problem last season; going 2 for 9, than exploding in the 4th to make the game closer. The result is a 20-point game on a stat-sheet... but those watching know better. Ellis had another amazing 4th... and another lackluster start.

I don't trust Monta Ellis yet; that's the simple truth. The kid's a spark plug, he's amazing on some nights, and he's flashing brilliance more and more... but I just don't trust the kid with a last minute shot yet. I love the fact that he WANTS to take those shots; but I still think he's too immature. By midseason, my opinion will have changed... but I don't think he'll be capable of (consistently) putting up those complete superstar showings until we're 40 games out.

I think Don Nelson agree's with me. I think that's why Nelly's not running buzzer-beaters to Ellis yet. If he misses them too early, it'll crush his confidence... and Nelly's trying to create a star here. For that reason, I'm glad the play was running to Baron.

#32 wrote: For that reason, I'm glad the play was running to Baron.

It's funny. Baron may be the least consistent superstar in the league...

That's an unfair statement. It's purely because of health.

I'm talking about inconsistent in a Mike Dunleavy, Mike Miller kinda way... which, unfortunately, is how Monta's performed in the first 3 quarters lately.

#32 wrote:

ChicagoTom wrote:However, when you have a guy like Monta Ellis who has scored 13 points in the fourth quarter on jumpers and quick drives to the hoop and you do not even let him touch the ball in the last minute, I have a problem with that.

I don't.

Inconsistency is not something you need in a close game. Although the first 3 quarters of THIS game wasn't the hollocaust that Monta displayed against San Antonio, it was still the same design: inconsistent and rushed.

For some reason, Ellis is having a real tough time getting it going before the 4th quarter. Some of you might remember Richardson having this same problem last season; going 2 for 9, than exploding in the 4th to make the game closer. The result is a 20-point game on a stat-sheet... but those watching know better. Ellis had another amazing 4th... and another lackluster start.

I don't trust Monta Ellis yet; that's the simple truth. The kid's a spark plug, he's amazing on some nights, and he's flashing brilliance more and more... but I just don't trust the kid with a last minute shot yet. I love the fact that he WANTS to take those shots; but I still think he's too immature. By midseason, my opinion will have changed... but I don't think he'll be capable of (consistently) putting up those complete superstar showings until we're 40 games out.

I think Don Nelson agree's with me. I think that's why Nelly's not running buzzer-beaters to Ellis yet. If he misses them too early, it'll crush his confidence... and Nelly's trying to create a star here. For that reason, I'm glad the play was running to Baron.

Baron is the only guy who should be ahead of monta in the order of taking game winners

Also, I don't care if it's mike dunleavemewideopeniwillmiss, if a player is on fire you ride the hot hand, even with the final shot.

#32 wrote:

ChicagoTom wrote:However, when you have a guy like Monta Ellis who has scored 13 points in the fourth quarter on jumpers and quick drives to the hoop and you do not even let him touch the ball in the last minute, I have a problem with that.

I don't.

Inconsistency is not something you need in a close game. Although the first 3 quarters of THIS game wasn't the hollocaust that Monta displayed against San Antonio, it was still the same design: inconsistent and rushed.

For some reason, Ellis is having a real tough time getting it going before the 4th quarter. Some of you might remember Richardson having this same problem last season; going 2 for 9, than exploding in the 4th to make the game closer. The result is a 20-point game on a stat-sheet... but those watching know better. Ellis had another amazing 4th... and another lackluster start.

I don't trust Monta Ellis yet; that's the simple truth. The kid's a spark plug, he's amazing on some nights, and he's flashing brilliance more and more... but I just don't trust the kid with a last minute shot yet. I love the fact that he WANTS to take those shots; but I still think he's too immature. By midseason, my opinion will have changed... but I don't think he'll be capable of (consistently) putting up those complete superstar showings until we're 40 games out.

I think Don Nelson agree's with me. I think that's why Nelly's not running buzzer-beaters to Ellis yet. If he misses them too early, it'll crush his confidence... and Nelly's trying to create a star here. For that reason, I'm glad the play was running to Baron.

Excellent points #32. I guess I did not really think about this way. I guess I just wish Baron could have found a way to get some higher percentage shots other than the back-to-back fadeaways. It would have been nice to see him take his man to the basket try to draw a foul or drive, draw and dish to an open man in a 1-4 low set. Who knows though. I am just throwing some ideas out there.

Regardless, some good points #32!

#32 wrote:That's an unfair statement. It's purely because of health.

Not only that. He's never as bad as Dunleavy can be... but he's far from consistent. Just look at the games he played last season and you'll see how far he was from the current Baron.

I've never doubted his talent (in fact, few PGs in the NBA are as good as him. From the top of my mind, only Nash is clearly above him)... but consistent is not an adjective I'd use while talking about Baron.

ChicagoTom wrote:

#32 wrote:

ChicagoTom wrote:However, when you have a guy like Monta Ellis who has scored 13 points in the fourth quarter on jumpers and quick drives to the hoop and you do not even let him touch the ball in the last minute, I have a problem with that.

I don't.

Inconsistency is not something you need in a close game. Although the first 3 quarters of THIS game wasn't the hollocaust that Monta displayed against San Antonio, it was still the same design: inconsistent and rushed.

For some reason, Ellis is having a real tough time getting it going before the 4th quarter. Some of you might remember Richardson having this same problem last season; going 2 for 9, than exploding in the 4th to make the game closer. The result is a 20-point game on a stat-sheet... but those watching know better. Ellis had another amazing 4th... and another lackluster start.

I don't trust Monta Ellis yet; that's the simple truth. The kid's a spark plug, he's amazing on some nights, and he's flashing brilliance more and more... but I just don't trust the kid with a last minute shot yet. I love the fact that he WANTS to take those shots; but I still think he's too immature. By midseason, my opinion will have changed... but I don't think he'll be capable of (consistently) putting up those complete superstar showings until we're 40 games out.

I think Don Nelson agree's with me. I think that's why Nelly's not running buzzer-beaters to Ellis yet. If he misses them too early, it'll crush his confidence... and Nelly's trying to create a star here. For that reason, I'm glad the play was running to Baron.

Excellent points #32. I guess I did not really think about this way. I guess I just wish Baron could have found a way to get some higher percentage shots other than the back-to-back fadeaways. It would have been nice to see him take his man to the basket try to draw a foul or drive, draw and dish to an open man in a 1-4 low set. Who knows though. I am just throwing some ideas out there.

Regardless, some good points #32!

Yeah, I agree. The main gripe with BD is that he does, too often, settle for a fadeaway, and MJ he ain't. He is a man who, like Monta, can get to the rim and either score or get fouled almost at will, so why he settles for the outside shot is beyond me. I am guessing that he has a distorted view of how well he can shoot from the perimeter. His belief in his stroke, in the face of a lot of evidence to the contrary, is delusional. Contrast that with Tony Parker and D Wade, 2 players who are very clear that they have mediocre outside shots and that their strength is driving and dishing. Too bad, cause the driving and dishing BD is easily one of the top 3 point guards in the league.

#32 wrote:That's an unfair statement. It's purely because of health.

I'm talking about inconsistent in a Mike Dunleavy, Mike Miller kinda way... which, unfortunately, is how Monta's performed in the first 3 quarters lately.

You know of course that Monta had 10 points in the first half of quarter number one last night don't you?

cladden wrote:

migya wrote:This definately is a disappointing loss! The frontline was outplayed to say the least!

Props to Ellis and baron who carried the team! Baron is taking too many shots though! Close to a triple double, he'll get one or two this season it looks.

Dunleavy did well statistically but I'm interested to hear how he looked and whether he was effective or not.

Al Harrington really came to play! I still didn't want him but the man is capable!

Some games this sort of letdown will happen but the boys need to keep their heads up because they have been real good so far.

Is JRich hurt because he didn't play many minutes?

Dun had a good game. Few mistakes and very efficient on the offensive end. JRich is hurt. Hopefully not too bad. Ankle I think.

Good on the dun! Hopefully JRich isn't hurt but I do think he should take a few games off and get that thing properly healed. He may have come back too early

~W~ wrote:

TMC wrote:Blame it on the refs all you want, but we shouldn't have been in a position in which one call changes the whole outcome. We just let the Pacers hang around too much.

I don't think any of us can predict the outcome had the refs done their job, but like it or not the call did factor into the final result. You can say the Warriors should have played better or what not, but in the end they did lose by 2, and coincidentally, that play was a 4 point swing...

Personally, it doesnt matter when it happened, first quarter, 2nd quarter or the last 2 minutes of the game, in the end we got screwed...

I know what you're saying and it not acceptable for the ref's to not change the call to the right one because they are directly affecting the result of how the players perform, not totally but they have an effect. The team however, has to learn from this and put away a team. That's what the truly great teams do

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:

#32 wrote:

ChicagoTom wrote:However, when you have a guy like Monta Ellis who has scored 13 points in the fourth quarter on jumpers and quick drives to the hoop and you do not even let him touch the ball in the last minute, I have a problem with that.

I don't.

Inconsistency is not something you need in a close game. Although the first 3 quarters of THIS game wasn't the hollocaust that Monta displayed against San Antonio, it was still the same design: inconsistent and rushed.

For some reason, Ellis is having a real tough time getting it going before the 4th quarter. Some of you might remember Richardson having this same problem last season; going 2 for 9, than exploding in the 4th to make the game closer. The result is a 20-point game on a stat-sheet... but those watching know better. Ellis had another amazing 4th... and another lackluster start.

I don't trust Monta Ellis yet; that's the simple truth. The kid's a spark plug, he's amazing on some nights, and he's flashing brilliance more and more... but I just don't trust the kid with a last minute shot yet. I love the fact that he WANTS to take those shots; but I still think he's too immature. By midseason, my opinion will have changed... but I don't think he'll be capable of (consistently) putting up those complete superstar showings until we're 40 games out.

I think Don Nelson agree's with me. I think that's why Nelly's not running buzzer-beaters to Ellis yet. If he misses them too early, it'll crush his confidence... and Nelly's trying to create a star here. For that reason, I'm glad the play was running to Baron.

Baron is the only guy who should be ahead of monta in the order of taking game winners

Also, I don't care if it's mike dunleavemewideopeniwillmiss, if a player is on fire you ride the hot hand, even with the final shot.

I agree with you almost 100% on that Pest! Monta was hot and feeling it and that is what wins the game. You can also go to the guy who is the best player on the team but the guy that is hot should at least have the ball in his hands a bit at the end