#32 wrote:Why? TMC said that players can't survive without defense or a decent shot. I simply brought up the fact that Jason Kidd had neither when he first entered the league...

But Kidd was already an accomplished defender by his 4th year... and one of the best, if not the best, passer in the game. Any player can survive with just one outstanding skill nobody else has at that level... something Dunleavy doesn't have.

#32 wrote:

migya wrote:Dunny boy has already choked! Many times!

He hasn't choked; he has failed.

Ok, whatever...

TMC wrote:But Kidd was already an accomplished defender by his 4th year... and one of the best, if not the best, passer in the game. Any player can survive with just one outstanding skill nobody else has at that level... something Dunleavy doesn't have.

Nobody's saying Dunleavy's going to be an all-star. My point is that he has a new role now, with several advantages (like taking bigger, slower players off the dribble to create... something he could never do at SF). If Dunleavy is able to average 15 PPG, 6 RPG, and 5 APG, would that be good enough for you?

TMC wrote:

#32 wrote:

migya wrote:Dunny boy has already choked! Many times!

He hasn't choked; he has failed.

Ok, whatever...

Read my entire response, instead of simply clipping a single part of it. He failed... at an ASPECT of the game. That's way different than simply saying 'he failed'.

#32 wrote:If Dunleavy is able to average 15 PPG, 6 RPG, and 5 APG, would that be good enough for you?

I said in other thread it would be enough... but won't happen. At pf, I expect around 8 ppg, 5 rpg and 2.5 apg.

#32 wrote:

migya wrote:Dunny boy has already choked! Many times!

He hasn't choked; he has failed. But it was always in the same exact role. If you tell a walrus to fly, he'll fail every single time.

Playing small forward just wasn't Dunleavy's game; even in college, he spent more time at PF than SF. He can't keep up with quicker 3's. His height (6'9") means that playing PF isn't a stretch at all; in fact, it will probably be very benneficial for Dunleavy to use his carefully honed skills (ball-handling, passing, vision, ect) against slower, less coordinated players (like the bigger PFs).

Dunleavy failed miserably at small forward; but playing PF is a completely new challenge that we have yet to see the results for.

Ok, whatever...

TMC wrote:

#32 wrote:If Dunleavy is able to average 15 PPG, 6 RPG, and 5 APG, would that be good enough for you?

I said in other thread it would be enough... but won't happen. At pf, I expect around 8 ppg, 5 rpg and 2.5 apg.

So you'll be giving the guy huge props if he comes out with 14 PPG, 5.5 RPG, and 4.5 APG?

#32 wrote:

TMC wrote:

#32 wrote:If Dunleavy is able to average 15 PPG, 6 RPG, and 5 APG, would that be good enough for you?

I said in other thread it would be enough... but won't happen. At pf, I expect around 8 ppg, 5 rpg and 2.5 apg.

So you'll be giving the guy huge props if he comes out with 14 PPG, 5.5 RPG, and 4.5 APG?

If he does it with decent %, damn sure I will... I just don't expect much of him.

#32 wrote:

migya wrote:Just wrong talking about Kidd and dun in the same conversation!

Why? TMC said that players can't survive without defense or a decent shot. I simply brought up the fact that Jason Kidd had neither when he first entered the league... and he's been regarded as one of (if not the) best point guards in the league his entire stint in the NBA. It was an example against his statement; a retort, nothing more. I never said Dunleavy was going to be the next Jason Kidd or anything.

Kidd has been more than a decent defender for pretty much his entire career (his rookie season he was a bit shaky) AND he has a decent shot! He makes nearly two threes a game! That is not someone who can't shoot! Kidd is just a genius on the court, Dunleavy is a lost individual at times and he has yet to do something positive consistently and that is a big question mark with him - Is he ever going to be consistently decent enough to deserve alot of minutes

#32 wrote:

migya wrote:Dunny boy has already choked! Many times!

He hasn't choked; he has failed. But it was always in the same exact role. If you tell a walrus to fly, he'll fail every single time.

Playing small forward just wasn't Dunleavy's game; even in college, he spent more time at PF than SF. He can't keep up with quicker 3's. His height (6'9") means that playing PF isn't a stretch at all; in fact, it will probably be very benneficial for Dunleavy to use his carefully honed skills (ball-handling, passing, vision, ect) against slower, less coordinated players (like the bigger PFs).

Dunleavy failed miserably at small forward; but playing PF is a completely new challenge that we have yet to see the results for.

Dunleavy will utterly crushed if he plays PF often! As simple as that! Noway that guy can handle the PFs of the nba! He can't rebound with them, can't outmuscle them, can't out jump them, can't out quick the majority of them, heck, he can't even out shoot alot of them!

Dunleavy at PF is destined to fail and Nelson will have to change things quickly. Hopefully Pietrus or Ellis will play well to start the season so Nelson has confidence in changing the lineup without thinking he has a major weaklink out there