On The Subject Of God & Religion

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:03 am
migya wrote:On the subject of everyone decending from Adam and Eve - I am a geneticist but it doesn't take a scientific degree to understand that if Eve was Adam's rib, she was an exact clone of Adam but with two X chromosomes as opposed to Adam having X and Y chromosomes.

POINT = No way can you get so much diversity (Black race, white race, arab race and asian race to keep it very simple) from two exact clones!

THINK ABOUT THAT ONE


I don't think anybody really believes in the Adam and Eve myth literally. People who believe in it gotta take it as an allegory...
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:05 am
TMC wrote:
migya wrote:On the subject of everyone decending from Adam and Eve - I am a geneticist but it doesn't take a scientific degree to understand that if Eve was Adam's rib, she was an exact clone of Adam but with two X chromosomes as opposed to Adam having X and Y chromosomes.

POINT = No way can you get so much diversity (Black race, white race, arab race and asian race to keep it very simple) from two exact clones!

THINK ABOUT THAT ONE


I don't think anybody really believes in the Adam and Eve myth literally. People who believe in it gotta take it as an allegory...




Maybe that's where the expression - Go fuk yourself came from! :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:09 am
migya wrote:
TMC wrote:
migya wrote:On the subject of everyone decending from Adam and Eve - I am a geneticist but it doesn't take a scientific degree to understand that if Eve was Adam's rib, she was an exact clone of Adam but with two X chromosomes as opposed to Adam having X and Y chromosomes.

POINT = No way can you get so much diversity (Black race, white race, arab race and asian race to keep it very simple) from two exact clones!

THINK ABOUT THAT ONE


I don't think anybody really believes in the Adam and Eve myth literally. People who believe in it gotta take it as an allegory...




Maybe that's where the expression - Go fuk yourself came from! :mrgreen:


::lol:

See?. Religion can be funny.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:49 am
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:"I have zero problem with anyone believing whatever they want"
- coltraning
"I have no problem with people believing what they want to believe"
- disease

I haven't read the other two pages, so maybe there was something else

I wasn't talking about you two. Its funny, but I kinda figured you guys for being Buddhists (or something similar). Most hardcore Jazz followers read the Beats and follow in their footsteps. :wink:

I was moreso talking about migya. We tell him we have faith and he comes back breaking down every line of the Bible (as if we take it litterally). That's what i was talking about.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:36 am
Great Thread ... {my opinion}

So long.
Now, if one chose to one could really see more about ...

How many of us there are? so far?
The similarities and differences in the way we think, or not, what we think, or not ... just a whole bunch of stuff.

Adding a premise:

Now ... here's the plan, here's the goal, etc.
For those who accept it ... you know ..

MISSION IMPOSSIBLE

We're all going to get together and form a TEAM.
Basketball? I certainly like that sport.
Wouldn't have to be basketball.

We're going to be together for a significant period of time {?}
Do we need a captain? Do we need a leader?
What do we need from the captain? from team members?

Are we going to try and WIN?

There are many more questions to ASK and to answer.
However ...

Do the most important questions come first?
Could you? Would you want to?
Make a really good team out of this bunch?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:00 pm
migya wrote:I've got a heap of facts about the old and new testaments that just don't add up and contradict eachother!

Look at this website and you will get many examples http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.html




Again you said it right!

Almost every war in history has been brought on by those that claim to be peaceful and have the right faith! The ones that mind their own busines and don't try to put their beliefs on others are always the ones that are the victims!


fascinating site, migya. One of my favorite anomalies is all the anti-semitic Christians who don't even know that Jesus was not only Jewish, he was a rabbi who would have no idea what the word Christian was!
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:26 pm
Jesus was a carpenter, not a rabbi. It's true he studied with rabbi's in temple (because, honestly, there was no Christianity prior to the Resurrection; there was only Judism), but he never became one. At least, not according to my translation.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:16 pm
#32 wrote:Jesus was a carpenter, not a rabbi. It's true he studied with rabbi's in temple (because, honestly, there was no Christianity prior to the Resurrection; there was only Judism), but he never became one. At least, not according to my translation.




He was known as the King of the Jews! He had to be Jewish because that was (according to the bible) the only religion and people of the biblical god!
He never existed anyway - That character is just a repeat of previous main characters of previous religions, like Horus of Egypt, Zoroaster of Persia, Mithras of Persia and many more - Just look it up :wink:
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:38 pm
So called "Facts" can be made to suit anyones already beliefs. This is why I don't see the point in pushing your beliefs onto others.

He was known as the King of the Jews! He had to be Jewish because that was (according to the bible) the only religion and people of the biblical god!
He never existed anyway - That character is just a repeat of previous main characters of previous religions, like Horus of Egypt, Zoroaster of Persia, Mithras of Persia and many more - Just look it up


I don't think 32 was saying that he didn't believe Jesus was Jewish, merely stating that he has been taught that Jesus was a Carpenter, not a Rabbi. My personal opinion on this is that Jesus was a carpenter by trade, but a Rabbi to his followers and acolytes.

As for his existence....I can certainly see Migya's point in saying that Jesus could be an amalgum of previous personalities from other religions. That said, my personal belief is that he was in fact a real man. Was he the Messiah as stated in the Bible or a Prophet as Muslim's believe?? I certainly can't answer that question, personally I think there are too many uncertainties within religious issues to take a set point of view.

People can only speculate on what really happened and what the truth is. I can understand people having a set point of view because they've taken a leap of faith, but to argue that these people are wrong without considering that they may in fact be right is kind of arrogant.

Cheers,

Carl.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:21 pm
Like I've said, people that have a belief or faith, it's with them. I just like to make a logical decision on what I know and have discovered - It is why we have a brain and intelligence!

If people looked at information and used this to make a logical decision, things would not be so degenerate in humanity! Like governments - People fail to look at information from a neutral stand point (the only way to see things clearly and make a logical, intelligent decision) and so there is people who think that governments, such as the U.S. government, are righteous! These people, to me, allow the continuation of all these wrong things to continue and others who see the truth suffer because of it! That is wrong to me!

Just showing information that has been found by many and confirmed by many (mostly scientists that take a neutral stand point and just report their findings) so people whop may never have seen such information can have a better view on things
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:27 pm
TMC wrote:
migya wrote:On the subject of everyone decending from Adam and Eve - I am a geneticist but it doesn't take a scientific degree to understand that if Eve was Adam's rib, she was an exact clone of Adam but with two X chromosomes as opposed to Adam having X and Y chromosomes.

POINT = No way can you get so much diversity (Black race, white race, arab race and asian race to keep it very simple) from two exact clones!

THINK ABOUT THAT ONE


I don't think anybody really believes in the Adam and Eve myth literally. People who believe in it gotta take it as an allegory...


I reckon if God created Adam And Eve He could give them any sort of genetics

However, pardon my ignorance but I do have a question ...

Where did, do, we think, according to whom etc. ... the races come from?
There are certainly some dramatic differences?

Am I understanding, what I believe President Clinton said to be true. That the genetic difference between the races .... is a small small small small small small .000000000000 type number ???
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:00 am
SoCooLBob wrote:However, pardon my ignorance but I do have a question ...

Where did, do, we think, according to whom etc. ... the races come from?
There are certainly some dramatic differences?

Am I understanding, what I believe President Clinton said to be true. That the genetic difference between the races .... is a small small small small small small .000000000000 type number ???

don't know bout Clinton, but biologists overwhelmingly state there is no biological basis for different races. That made big news at a convention they held about 3-4 years ago. Even skin color, the basis for so much misery and oppression comprises only 6 of our 40,000 genes...
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:54 am
migya wrote:Just showing information that has been found by many and confirmed by many (mostly scientists that take a neutral stand point and just report their findings) so people whop may never have seen such information can have a better view on things


I don't think scientist are (so) neutral in this one. After all, science is based on proofs... and that makes it exactly the opposite of faith.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:42 am
People fail to look at information from a neutral stand point (the only way to see things clearly and make a logical, intelligent decision) and so there is people who think that governments, such as the U.S. government, are righteous! These people, to me, allow the continuation of all these wrong things to continue and others who see the truth suffer because of it! That is wrong to me!


That statement in itself is in no way neutral....so how are you making your decisions?? Its obviously coming from an emotional place for you. Nothing wrong with that, but it is NOT neutral.

don't know bout Clinton, but biologists overwhelmingly state there is no biological basis for different races. That made big news at a convention they held about 3-4 years ago. Even skin color, the basis for so much misery and oppression comprises only 6 of our 40,000 genes...


I've always seen the differences between race as more of an environmental thing. Obviously genetics come in to it, but wouldn't the defining factor be the environment in which any particular race chose to settle??

I don't think scientist are (so) neutral in this one. After all, science is based on proofs... and that makes it exactly the opposite of faith.


Once again we seem to be on the same page TMC. We're all human, whether scientist or bishop and that means we have different, unique life experiences that affect the way we live our lives and the choices we make. As much as we say we want to see things objectively, emotions and personal experience is always going to taint our particular point of view....its all part of being human, isn't it???

Cheers.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:59 am
SoCooLBob wrote:I reckon if God created Adam And Eve He could give them any sort of genetics


Like I said, I am a genetics graduate BUT enough information is out on genetics (in articles and documentaries) to have enough of an understanding - Every cell in an individual's body (the ones that have DNA in them because some cells, like red blood cells, have no DNA) have IDENTICAL DNA!
So - In the bible, Adam's rib became Eve, so Eve had the exact DNA as Adam but since she was a female and Adam was a male, Eve had two X chromosmes (that's what makes a woman a female) and Adam had one X chromosome and one Y chromosome - The only difference between the two!


SoCooLBob wrote:However, pardon my ignorance but I do have a question ...

Where did, do, we think, according to whom etc. ... the races come from?
There are certainly some dramatic differences?


I believe that this planet was seeded by other beings, in other words aliens. I think that humans are a synthesis of a humoidlike animal that was already on the planet, like the Neanderthals and these aliens ie. A hybrid (a genetic mixture of the two). That is why humans are similar to the apes but special and superior in intelligence.

Just like geneticists now can make a hybrid from two different forms of DNA, from two different animals, this is a plausible explanation for the creation of humans.

I believe that one individual was created, probably a male, after many failed attempts, and then different variations (same species but with slightly different DNA to give slightly different characteristics) and individuals were synthesised and created.


SoCooLBob wrote:the genetic difference between the races .... is a small small small small small small .000000000000 type number ???


A slight change in DNA in a gene can make that gene totaly different and so giving it totally different characteristics!
It is true that humans of all races only have a slight difference in DNA
BUT
there is only a slight difference in DNA between humans and gorillas! Between humans and dogs even!

Get the picture = Many animals have similar DNA and the more different they are (like comparing a dog to a worm), the more difference in DNA there is!

I am a believer that every living thing on this planet (in the universe as such) came from one living cell, many billions of years ago! That is why there is slight ifferences in DNA between many things - They have deviated away from one another through mutations of different forms but it takes a long time for such changes!
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