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» Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:12 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
migya wrote:This is one of those cases where stats don't tell the story. Garnett and Duncan are about even but Duncan does what he has to to win. Garnett has had decent teams with Wally and Brandon alongside him, Hudson (had a great first season there) with Wally, Billups (also had a great season there) and Wally and has also had solid role players like LaPhonso Ellis. Duncan has had better teams but not a whole lot better. David Robinson was not much of a superstar after Duncan's first season and Duncan had to make do with players like Avery Johnoson and Jaren Jackson, who were solid at best. Parker and Ginobili have risen now but they are still not great stars

Dude, you're putting guys like laphonso ellis and troy hudson at the same level as michael finley and bruce bowen. Look at the roster the spurs had this year.
G - Tony Parker/Nick the Quick
G - Manu Ginobili/Michael Finley
F - Bowen/Barry
F - Duncan/Horry
C - Mohamed/Nesterovic

Now how does that team not win a ring? I'll tell you how, because Dirk outplays TD. KG is dirk's cryptonite, he does similar things to dirk, but better. TD is not close to the leader KG is. Who gets the ball in the clutch? Not TD usually, it's bob, or even Manu. KG would have willed himself to win those clutch games because he has more desire and guts than anybody in this league save maybe AI and Kobe. He just has never had his backup five look like a starting five.

don't know, dude - as far as end of game, there are about 11 players (at least) more clutch than KG at the end of a game as far as I can see...
Kobe, D Wade, Lebron, Nash, Iverson, Arenas, Ray Ray, Carmelo, regular season Dirk and.....TD
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» Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:19 pm
coltraning wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
migya wrote:This is one of those cases where stats don't tell the story. Garnett and Duncan are about even but Duncan does what he has to to win. Garnett has had decent teams with Wally and Brandon alongside him, Hudson (had a great first season there) with Wally, Billups (also had a great season there) and Wally and has also had solid role players like LaPhonso Ellis. Duncan has had better teams but not a whole lot better. David Robinson was not much of a superstar after Duncan's first season and Duncan had to make do with players like Avery Johnoson and Jaren Jackson, who were solid at best. Parker and Ginobili have risen now but they are still not great stars

Dude, you're putting guys like laphonso ellis and troy hudson at the same level as michael finley and bruce bowen. Look at the roster the spurs had this year.
G - Tony Parker/Nick the Quick
G - Manu Ginobili/Michael Finley
F - Bowen/Barry
F - Duncan/Horry
C - Mohamed/Nesterovic

Now how does that team not win a ring? I'll tell you how, because Dirk outplays TD. KG is dirk's cryptonite, he does similar things to dirk, but better. TD is not close to the leader KG is. Who gets the ball in the clutch? Not TD usually, it's bob, or even Manu. KG would have willed himself to win those clutch games because he has more desire and guts than anybody in this league save maybe AI and Kobe. He just has never had his backup five look like a starting five.

don't know, dude - as far as end of game, there are about 11 players (at least) more clutch than KG at the end of a game as far as I can see...
Kobe, D Wade, Lebron, Nash, Iverson, Arenas, Ray Ray, Carmelo, regular season Dirk and.....TD

sure, in the clutch there are better players, I never said there weren't. but in terms of start to end willing a team to win KG is second to none. Duncan can be passive and let a game get away from him no and again
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» Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:33 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
migya wrote:This is one of those cases where stats don't tell the story. Garnett and Duncan are about even but Duncan does what he has to to win. Garnett has had decent teams with Wally and Brandon alongside him, Hudson (had a great first season there) with Wally, Billups (also had a great season there) and Wally and has also had solid role players like LaPhonso Ellis. Duncan has had better teams but not a whole lot better. David Robinson was not much of a superstar after Duncan's first season and Duncan had to make do with players like Avery Johnoson and Jaren Jackson, who were solid at best. Parker and Ginobili have risen now but they are still not great stars

Dude, you're putting guys like laphonso ellis and troy hudson at the same level as michael finley and bruce bowen. Look at the roster the spurs had this year.
G - Tony Parker/Nick the Quick
G - Manu Ginobili/Michael Finley
F - Bowen/Barry
F - Duncan/Horry
C - Mohamed/Nesterovic

Now how does that team not win a ring? I'll tell you how, because Dirk outplays TD. KG is dirk's cryptonite, he does similar things to dirk, but better. TD is not close to the leader KG is. Who gets the ball in the clutch? Not TD usually, it's bob, or even Manu. KG would have willed himself to win those clutch games because he has more desire and guts than anybody in this league save maybe AI and Kobe. He just has never had his backup five look like a starting five.



Firstly, Finley is not what he used to be and got fuk all time last season. Also, Finley only has played one season with the Spurs so far! Bowen is overrated!, he does what he has to but doesn't add a great advantage to the Spurs, he is even a liability on one end of the court! Hudson was great and should not be a surprise being mentioned.

That Spurs lineup you gave is not an immense force. Van Exel is really past it, as is Finley by what he showed. The Centers are nothing more than role players and ginobili was probably at his worst last season. Only Parker looks good next to Duncan.

Duncan does get the ball in the clutch and Horry only shoots from the outside and doesn't do much on the inside, in the clutch or not.

Another thing - Kobe has no guts, if anything he is a *****!
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» Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:10 am
migya wrote:Another thing - Kobe has no guts, if anything he is a *****!

now come on now, ***** is a wonderful thing :wink: seriously, dude, Kobe is a true warrior in the clutch, when the game is on the line, and this is coming from me, who loathes the me first basketball he practiced this year
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» Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:12 am
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
TMC wrote:The stats are too close

the stats aren't close at all. KG has the edge in points, boards, assists, steals, blocks, FG%, FT%, 3p%, Turnovers, and Fouls. It's basically a wilt vs. russell argument. Do you want the guy who won rings (with an MVP and a couple of other allstars on his team) or the guy who played with a bunch of YMCA players but dominated the league thoroughly. If I'm starting a team, I'll pick KG every time because he can get you about 40 wins on his own. If duncan had sczerbiak as his best teammate how do you think he'd do?


The stats are close. The only one that isn't close is assists, where KG has a clear edge there. The others are almost the same. A couple of points and one board are not a great difference when KG's teammates are so bad. In fact, I think Duncan would have better numbers than KG in Minny.
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» Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:12 am
But Kobe is no leader! Look at the last game of the Suns series, I only saw bits of it but it was well pointed out how much of a loser he was by turning away from his team
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» Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:14 am
coltraning wrote:
migya wrote:Another thing - Kobe has no guts, if anything he is a *****!

now come on now, ***** is a wonderful thing :wink: seriously, dude, Kobe is a true warrior in the clutch, when the game is on the line, and this is coming from me, who loathes the me first basketball he practiced this year


That's one of the few things I wouldn't call Kobe. If anything, he has the guts to take over a game and play one against five (as dumb as it sounds). :wink:
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» Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:15 am
TMC wrote:
coltraning wrote:
migya wrote:Another thing - Kobe has no guts, if anything he is a *****!

now come on now, ***** is a wonderful thing :wink: seriously, dude, Kobe is a true warrior in the clutch, when the game is on the line, and this is coming from me, who loathes the me first basketball he practiced this year


That's one of the few things I wouldn't call Kobe. If anything, he has the guts to take over a game and play one against five (as dumb as it sounds). :wink:




That's called HOG! I've met many guys in the playground like that
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» Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:08 am
Nothing funnier than the whole team screaming at a dude to pass it.....cause you know once he gets it in his hands he's taking it to the rack with his half assed moves. :wink:
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» Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:02 am
breezer_79 wrote:Nothing funnier than the whole team screaming at a dude to pass it.....cause you know once he gets it in his hands he's taking it to the rack with his half assed moves. :wink:


Still gotta admire his guts. That 81 point game against Toronto was just unbelievable...

Not that it matters, tho. That kind of bball may go to the playoffs, but not much further.
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» Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:25 am
Oh, I wasn't specifically talking about Kobe....I was actually just getting nostalgic about my u/18 local comp. There was one guy that just used to take it to the rack no matter what, he was out of control, literally and figuratively. At first we used to scream at him to pass, but in the end we used to just clap him in. Funny Stuff.

Cheers guys.
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» Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:32 am
breezer_79 wrote:Oh, I wasn't specifically talking about Kobe....I was actually just getting nostalgic about my u/18 local comp. There was one guy that just used to take it to the rack no matter what, he was out of control, literally and figuratively. At first we used to scream at him to pass, but in the end we used to just clap him in. Funny Stuff.

Cheers guys.


I know. We all had that guy in our teams. No defense, no boards, no nothing; just an insane desire to get the rock and score. It even got to the point that we stopped passing to him, jut to get him mad. And it worked. He never came back to play.
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» Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:14 am
TMC wrote:
breezer_79 wrote:Nothing funnier than the whole team screaming at a dude to pass it.....cause you know once he gets it in his hands he's taking it to the rack with his half assed moves. :wink:


Still gotta admire his guts. That 81 point game against Toronto was just unbelievable...

Not that it matters, tho. That kind of bball may go to the playoffs, but not much further.



is that game still on the internet? If so where
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» Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:48 am
I guess you will find it with e-mule. Make a search with the words "Kobe" and "81" and it should be there.

But it will take a while to download.
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» Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:13 am
I've only got half a gig left on my 80gig harddrive because of videos :mrgreen:

Gotta get another one if I'm going to get that Kobe 81pts game, I remember on DavkaBT it was some 1.5gig

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