Skills or Athleticism?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:17 pm
migya wrote:
drfrank wrote:without athleticism, chances are you won't get to show your skill. ask mike dunleavy jr.



Mike Dunleavy - What skill :mrgreen:

No athleticism and no skill with our beloved dunnyboy.


A guy like Larry Bird showed that skill is far more important


right on the money.

Bird showed us that skills is the most essential thing in this game of basketball. He became one of the best players to ever stepped on the court being a tremendously skilled player.

and then MJ showed us what great skills mixed with great and athleticism can do - become arguebly the best player of all time.

and you can also see players who rely purely on their athleticism but lack the necessary skills. ie darius miles, kwame brown, pietrus -- players with limited game and are very inconsistent/unreliable throughout the longer course of the seaon.

so basically i've come to a conclusion.

basketball requires skills first and foremost to be able to effectively play the game.

meanwhile, athleticism is an advantage that can take your game to an even higher level of greatness.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:21 pm
kfresh wrote:
drfrank wrote:without athleticism, chances are you won't get to show your skill. ask mike dunleavy jr.


u dont need athleticism to show ur skills.
athleticism to me i believe helps give u an advantage over your opponents on the court. but skills must come first.

ie chris mullin, larry bird, stockton so on all did well by being a very skilled player in this league with below average athleticism.

and dunleavy has no skills Hahaha. the man cant shoot, he cant post up, he cant defend, i mean i don't even know what he can do? and to make it worst hes athletically impaired.

Stockton was extremely athletic and you show either bias or ignorance by thinking otherwise
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:51 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
kfresh wrote:
drfrank wrote:without athleticism, chances are you won't get to show your skill. ask mike dunleavy jr.


u dont need athleticism to show ur skills.
athleticism to me i believe helps give u an advantage over your opponents on the court. but skills must come first.

ie chris mullin, larry bird, stockton so on all did well by being a very skilled player in this league with below average athleticism.

and dunleavy has no skills Hahaha. the man cant shoot, he cant post up, he cant defend, i mean i don't even know what he can do? and to make it worst hes athletically impaired.

Stockton was extremely athletic and you show either bias or ignorance by thinking otherwise


extremely athletic? i doubt so.
stockton wasnt athletically talented, but he wasnt athletically impaired either. he couldnt jump outa the gym, dont remember him having crazy hagntime either, and he wasnt the strongest pg out there. but he was a qucik/fast guy.

id classify him as athletically average. BUT hes NOT exteremely athletic.
he pales in comparison to kobe, mj, iverson, lebron, wade, baron, chris paul, francis the list goes on.

those players are extremely athletic.

im not biased, because stockton is my favorite pg all time [over magic] because he wasnt the most blessed pg out there physically or athletically but he made himself into a top 50 nba player from what he was given.
and let me tell you most people will remember stockton for his phenominal skills displayed on the court, i doubt people will think of him as an extremely athletic pg. thats the baron davis' [a healthy one i mustadd haha] and the steve francis' out there
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:13 pm
kfresh wrote:he wasnt the strongest pg out there. but he was a qucik/fast guy.

he was one of the three or four strongest PGs in the NBA. Strong+Quick+Fast=athletic.
kfesh wrote:stockton so on all did well by being a very skilled player in this league with below average athleticism

kfesh wrote:id classify him as athletically average

and then you just flat out contradict yourself
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:30 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
kfresh wrote:he wasnt the strongest pg out there. but he was a qucik/fast guy.

he was one of the three or four strongest PGs in the NBA. Strong+Quick+Fast=athletic.
kfesh wrote:stockton so on all did well by being a very skilled player in this league with below average athleticism

kfesh wrote:id classify him as athletically average

and then you just flat out contradict yourself


hes definitely was not one of the strongest PGs in the NBA. one of the strongest pgs was magic or gary payton who could score on/defend the bigger players.

and i meant below average as in the Standard Guard in the NBA. Athletic wise on the scale of 1-10 hes average -- but in comparison to the other pgs in the league he was below average.

EITHER WAY i still
still fail to see how hes extremely athletic
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:57 pm
kfresh wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
kfresh wrote:
drfrank wrote:without athleticism, chances are you won't get to show your skill. ask mike dunleavy jr.


u dont need athleticism to show ur skills.
athleticism to me i believe helps give u an advantage over your opponents on the court. but skills must come first.

ie chris mullin, larry bird, stockton so on all did well by being a very skilled player in this league with below average athleticism.

and dunleavy has no skills Hahaha. the man cant shoot, he cant post up, he cant defend, i mean i don't even know what he can do? and to make it worst hes athletically impaired.

Stockton was extremely athletic and you show either bias or ignorance by thinking otherwise


extremely athletic? i doubt so.
stockton wasnt athletically talented, but he wasnt athletically impaired either. he couldnt jump outa the gym, dont remember him having crazy hagntime either, and he wasnt the strongest pg out there. but he was a qucik/fast guy.

id classify him as athletically average. BUT hes NOT exteremely athletic.
he pales in comparison to kobe, mj, iverson, lebron, wade, baron, chris paul, francis the list goes on.

those players are extremely athletic.



Right on the money!

Stockton was not athletic but very skilled. Quick but not athletic
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:01 pm
kfresh wrote:MJ showed us what great skills mixed with great and athleticism can do - become arguebly the best player of all time.


Jordan is definately the best ever!!!!

I never liked the bulls and was always going for the other team in the finals but Jordan showed flat out that he is the best ever. He lead the league in scoring more than anyone else ever did and was by far the main reason the Bulls won 6 championships and a much more competive era than any Lakers or Celtics team!

Jordan did what he had to do to win and that is that!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:33 pm
migya wrote:
kfresh wrote:MJ showed us what great skills mixed with great and athleticism can do - become arguebly the best player of all time.


Jordan is definately the best ever!!!!

I never liked the bulls and was always going for the other team in the finals but Jordan showed flat out that he is the best ever. He lead the league in scoring more than anyone else ever did and was by far the main reason the Bulls won 6 championships and a much more competive era than any Lakers or Celtics team!

Jordan did what he had to do to win and that is that!

Agree with the entire post except "a much more competitive era than any lakers or celtics team". The 80s were more competitive because less teams=more concentration of talent.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:19 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
migya wrote:
kfresh wrote:MJ showed us what great skills mixed with great and athleticism can do - become arguebly the best player of all time.


Jordan is definately the best ever!!!!

I never liked the bulls and was always going for the other team in the finals but Jordan showed flat out that he is the best ever. He lead the league in scoring more than anyone else ever did and was by far the main reason the Bulls won 6 championships and a much more competive era than any Lakers or Celtics team!

Jordan did what he had to do to win and that is that!

Agree with the entire post except "a much more competitive era than any lakers or celtics team". The 80s were more competitive because less teams=more concentration of talent.



Disagree - 80s had alot of talent but the defense almost didn't exist, making it easier because there were less factors. The Bulls won with great athletes and dominant players coming into the league, such as Shaq, Mourning, Grant Hill, Iverson etc. Players like Robinson, Barkley, Stockton and Malone were in their prime.

I believe that the Bulls had tough competition and won 6 championships! 2 3peats! Only the Russell Celtics did that and that era was a disgrace
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:51 pm
migya wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
migya wrote:
kfresh wrote:MJ showed us what great skills mixed with great and athleticism can do - become arguebly the best player of all time.


Jordan is definately the best ever!!!!

I never liked the bulls and was always going for the other team in the finals but Jordan showed flat out that he is the best ever. He lead the league in scoring more than anyone else ever did and was by far the main reason the Bulls won 6 championships and a much more competive era than any Lakers or Celtics team!

Jordan did what he had to do to win and that is that!

Agree with the entire post except "a much more competitive era than any lakers or celtics team". The 80s were more competitive because less teams=more concentration of talent.



Disagree - 80s had alot of talent but the defense almost didn't exist, making it easier because there were less factors. The Bulls won with great athletes and dominant players coming into the league, such as Shaq, Mourning, Grant Hill, Iverson etc. Players like Robinson, Barkley, Stockton and Malone were in their prime.

I believe that the Bulls had tough competition and won 6 championships! 2 3peats! Only the Russell Celtics did that and that era was a disgrace


COMPLETELY AGREE.

the 90s arguebly even had more talent in the league than it did in the 80s.
those 6 championships were hard earned by the bulls. they faced great teams throughout their great run and prevailed on top.

not to forget how great the ROCKETS were with hakeem. the 94 and 95 rockets are overshadowed by the MJ and bulls however, which is unfortunate.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:54 pm
i also think yao shows us a great deal of skills and how he can do well in the league without crazy athleticism for a big man. he has a soft touch, great post moves, and footwork eventhough hes not quick around the basket.

peja couple years back showed us a veryskilled player with lack of athleticism doing well in the league also but not as of late.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:28 pm
kfresh wrote:
migya wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
migya wrote:
kfresh wrote:MJ showed us what great skills mixed with great and athleticism can do - become arguebly the best player of all time.


Jordan is definately the best ever!!!!

I never liked the bulls and was always going for the other team in the finals but Jordan showed flat out that he is the best ever. He lead the league in scoring more than anyone else ever did and was by far the main reason the Bulls won 6 championships and a much more competive era than any Lakers or Celtics team!

Jordan did what he had to do to win and that is that!

Agree with the entire post except "a much more competitive era than any lakers or celtics team". The 80s were more competitive because less teams=more concentration of talent.



Disagree - 80s had alot of talent but the defense almost didn't exist, making it easier because there were less factors. The Bulls won with great athletes and dominant players coming into the league, such as Shaq, Mourning, Grant Hill, Iverson etc. Players like Robinson, Barkley, Stockton and Malone were in their prime.

I believe that the Bulls had tough competition and won 6 championships! 2 3peats! Only the Russell Celtics did that and that era was a disgrace


COMPLETELY AGREE.

the 90s arguebly even had more talent in the league than it did in the 80s.
those 6 championships were hard earned by the bulls. they faced great teams throughout their great run and prevailed on top.

not to forget how great the ROCKETS were with hakeem. the 94 and 95 rockets are overshadowed by the MJ and bulls however, which is unfortunate.

Let's compare 87-88 to 95-96
MVP:
88: Jordan
96: Jordan
88 jordan was better than 96 jordan. next
Allstar game:
Terrell brandon, sean elliot, glen rice and juwon howard were allstars in 96. nuff said.
Champions:
The 88 championship team featured
players who combined for 36 allstar appearances
whereas the 96 one had 23
I could argue why the 88 team was better but I'll wait for it to be refuted
Runners up:
The ridiculously loaded pistons were head and shoulders above the sonics. the pistons had dantley, zeke, dumars, laimbeer, microwave, rodman, mahorn, salley, dawkins, etc. now that's what you call loaded.
ECF runners up:
The bird, mcHale, Parish, DJ, ainge, paxson team didn't make the finals. insane. that team was much better than orlando, and they only won 50 games
WCF runners up:
Mavs were better than the typical three player jazz team.

Need I continue? becuase 87-88 owns 95-96 in every way,

Doesn't change that MJ was the greatest ever BAR NONE!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:06 am
I'm going with Pest here. 80's were loaded, while during the 90's there was a small drop off on the talent level. Still a pretty good decade, but not the same. More defense doesn't mean is harder to win, just a different approach. More competitive maybe, but not harder. It would be harder with the same level of talent overall, but not the way it was.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:55 am
kfresh wrote:i also think yao shows us a great deal of skills and how he can do well in the league without crazy athleticism for a big man. he has a soft touch, great post moves, and footwork eventhough hes not quick around the basket.

peja couple years back showed us a veryskilled player with lack of athleticism doing well in the league also but not as of late.



Yao Ming was going to have an average season until he came back from injury and dominated! He is better than most people give him credit for and because he has the soft touch and smarts, he will always be effective. If he adds some more strength andreally blocks some shots, more than what he does, he will be MVP caliber
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:04 am
In response to Pest's post listing that the 96 season was really no good - BULLSHIIT!

Alot of garbage listed that is meaningless, like the allstars from the 96 season - The 80s had garbage allstars as well so there is no significance!


The Celtics of the 80s were very good, as were the Pistons, for a few years there late in the 80s and teams like Houston and Philadelphia were also very good but not for every year like the Lakers and Celtics but for a few years only. Basically, it was almost always the same teams that were strong in the 80s because that's how it was - It was all geared towards the big market teams! It got harder as time went on to stay on top with the draft being geared towards the losing teams getting stronger.

The Bulls championship seasons had a powerful Houston team with Hakeem far better than he was in the 80s, the Sonics who had no superstar but bombarded a team from every angle, offensively and defensively, with 5 players all the time, that is why they were so successful, Phoenix suns who were immensely talented and capable of going all the way for 3 or 4 years there, Orlando team that had a very talented starting five that played roles very well with perhaps the hardest to prepare for player in the nba, Shaq and lastely, the powerful Knicks team that was near the top for almost the whole decade! Other teams were notable but the fact is - the 90s had alot of talent and ushered in a new era of mega athleticism and lockdown defense!

The 6 championships the Bulls won were incredible and they made it look relatively easy, thrashing alot of teams during their playoff runs
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