Skills or Athleticism?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:06 pm
I've always pondered this question myself.
What is more important to the game of basketball, skills or athleticism?

Of course you got the greats in the game like MJ or Kobe who are both very skilled players and very athletic themselves.

Then you got the larry birds, who wasnt too athletic, but on the other hand is still a legend.

And then you got superstars in the league today like Amare who rely heavily on their athleticism.

basically what is the more important value in the game of basketball - skills or athleticism?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:19 pm
Well, there is no stat really to measure skill, so lets look at one of the only quantifiable types of skill: shooting
Hpothesis:
Skills matter more for guards, it's about even for Forwards, bigs rely more on athleticism
Of the 50 best statistical seasons in point guard history...
30 shot 80+% from the ft line
2 shot 90+%
All shot 70+% from the ft line
30 shot 33.3+% from the 3pt line
4 shot 40+%
synopsis: Great PGs tend to be good midrange shooters but not long bombers
looking at that list, all of those players are extremely talented at point guard
Of the 50 best statistical seasons in shooting guard history...
33 shot 80+% from the ft line
none shot 90+%
48 shot 70+% from the ft line
26 shot 33.3+% from the 3pt line
4 shot 40+%
synopsis: Great SGs tend to be good midrange shooters, not long bombers
looking at that list, all of those players are extremely talented at shooting guard
Of the 50 best statistical seasons in SF history...
27 shot 80+% from the ft line
4 shot 90+%
48 shot 70+% from the ft line
25 shot 33.3+% from the 3pt line
4 shot 40+%
synopsis: There is a HUGE variability in shooting ability
looking at that list, most of those players are still very skilled, though there are some connie hawkins' in there
Of the 50 best statistical seasons in PF history...
6 shot 80+% from the ft line
0 shot 90+%
45 shot 70+% from the ft line
10 shot 33.3+% from the 3pt line
synopsis: Great PF tend to be average shooters
looking at that list, 39 of them have more skill than athleticism
Of the 50 best statistical seasons in center history...
1 shot 80+% from the ft line
0 shot 90+%
17 shot 70+% from the ft line
28 shot 60+% from the ft line
6 shot 33.3+% from the 3pt line (limited attempts)
synopsis: Great Cs tend to be terrible shooters
looking at that list, all of those players are extremely athletic, almost all of them would be in the NBA if they had stephen hunter's skill level.

But this is all a moot point...

Because everybody knows the most skilled and most athletic player in NBA history is....

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:58 pm
Have to say skill. You have to know how to play the sport you're playing and that means skill. Athleticism gives an advantage but doesn't mean your good at what you do. Without skill, you have nothing, whereas you don't have to have athleticism
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:02 pm
well i agree with migya that athleticism is more to gain an advantage over others on the court and without skills you basically are nothing.

but one question -- what about the run and gun style of the sun which allows amare stoudamire to do so well and yet he is still so skillfully raw compared to other 25+ ppg scorers out there in the league?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:17 pm
I think that at every position but center, skill is more important. At center it's athleticism
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:28 pm
kfresh wrote:well i agree with migya that athleticism is more to gain an advantage over others on the court and without skills you basically are nothing.

but one question -- what about the run and gun style of the sun which allows amare stoudamire to do so well and yet he is still so skillfully raw compared to other 25+ ppg scorers out there in the league?

great example - nash's skills allow stoudamire's athletic genius to flourish
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:28 pm
kfresh wrote:well i agree with migya that athleticism is more to gain an advantage over others on the court and without skills you basically are nothing.

but one question -- what about the run and gun style of the sun which allows amare stoudamire to do so well and yet he is still so skillfully raw compared to other 25+ ppg scorers out there in the league?



You've just pointed out how great the Suns' style is and how great steve Nash is! But Amare does have skills around the basket and a good enough jumpshot to make him unguardable and that counts as skill
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:18 pm
without athleticism, chances are you won't get to show your skill. ask mike dunleavy jr.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:12 am
drfrank wrote:without athleticism, chances are you won't get to show your skill. ask mike dunleavy jr.



Mike Dunleavy - What skill :mrgreen:

No athleticism and no skill with our beloved dunnyboy.


A guy like Larry Bird showed that skill is far more important
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:05 am
To me, it's both. Although I agree with pest that it depends on the position. Athleticism is key to a center, and a forward can live only with athleticism, while a pg needs more skill than any other position.

But you need a bit of both. With no skill, you're severely limited on your game, sometimes to the point that you're useless in certain games. With no athleticism, you can't show that skill (as drfrank pointed).

But there's also another trait: smartness. You need to recognize what you can and can't do in every situation, and the same about your rivals. You need to know how to take the right decision. That matters more than athleticism or skill. It can make up for the lack of those (again, to a certain extent).
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:55 am
TMC wrote:But there's also another trait: smartness. You need to recognize what you can and can't do in every situation, and the same about your rivals. You need to know how to take the right decision. That matters more than athleticism or skill. It can make up for the lack of those (again, to a certain extent).


I see what you are getting at, but I think that smartness is tied in with skill.
When I think of skill, I think of nice jump shots, deft passes, and all around court awareness.
When I think of athleticism, I think its all about running fast, jumping high, and pound for pound can lift the most weight.
If I were a coach and I had to choose between a player that was the most athletic or the one with the most skill, I'd choose the skillful one.
Players like Bird and Mullin were the slowest guys and had the least amount of hops then anybody on the court, but they couldn't be stopped because they had skill.
Players like Harold Miner and Pietrus have all the athleticism, but have proven themselves to be ineffective...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:01 pm
Big B wrote:I see what you are getting at, but I think that smartness is tied in with skill.
When I think of skill, I think of nice jump shots, deft passes, and all around court awareness.
When I think of athleticism, I think its all about running fast, jumping high, and pound for pound can lift the most weight.
If I were a coach and I had to choose between a player that was the most athletic or the one with the most skill, I'd choose the skillful one.
Players like Bird and Mullin were the slowest guys and had the least amount of hops then anybody on the court, but they couldn't be stopped because they had skill.
Players like Harold Miner and Pietrus have all the athleticism, but have proven themselves to be ineffective...


Well, we agree, then, although I don't consider things like court awareness as a skill (although, in a way, it is).

To me, a skill is something you can do with the ball. Shooting, dribbling... those are skills. Hence my comment on smartness... but if you consider them as one, you gotta go with a skilled player before any other. No doubt.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:46 pm
Athletics have more potential, but skilled players are far more valuable.

GMs hope athletic players BECOME skilled players. Without the "skilled" part, they're usually pretty useless.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:05 pm
drfrank wrote:without athleticism, chances are you won't get to show your skill. ask mike dunleavy jr.


u dont need athleticism to show ur skills.
athleticism to me i believe helps give u an advantage over your opponents on the court. but skills must come first.

ie chris mullin, larry bird, stockton so on all did well by being a very skilled player in this league with below average athleticism.

and dunleavy has no skills Hahaha. the man cant shoot, he cant post up, he cant defend, i mean i don't even know what he can do? and to make it worst hes athletically impaired.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:11 pm
Big B wrote:
TMC wrote:But there's also another trait: smartness. You need to recognize what you can and can't do in every situation, and the same about your rivals. You need to know how to take the right decision. That matters more than athleticism or skill. It can make up for the lack of those (again, to a certain extent).


I see what you are getting at, but I think that smartness is tied in with skill.
When I think of skill, I think of nice jump shots, deft passes, and all around court awareness.
When I think of athleticism, I think its all about running fast, jumping high, and pound for pound can lift the most weight.
If I were a coach and I had to choose between a player that was the most athletic or the one with the most skill, I'd choose the skillful one.
Players like Bird and Mullin were the slowest guys and had the least amount of hops then anybody on the court, but they couldn't be stopped because they had skill.
Players like Harold Miner and Pietrus have all the athleticism, but have proven themselves to be ineffective...



Agree totally!

Skills are a must and athleticism is an added bonus.

A plyer with both skills and athleticism will be better than a player with not as much athleticism but the same amount of skill
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