as far as 'ball hogs' is concerned, they both need the ball in their hands to be effective..i've seen them both jack up their share of shots..but with kobe's supporting cast, i would sure hope he'd shoot 75% of the shots... with the remaining 20% from lamar and 5% from the likes of walton, kwame, smush, george, etc...not much offense to pick from...

we all saw what happened when kobe tries to stay within the team concept...and the pressure's turned up...and his supporting cast is required to step up...

they wilt...

#32 wrote:Kwame and Parker are worse than Webber, Iggy, and Korver... and don't have the defensive presence of Dalembert. You can cut down Kobe and say that he lost to Phoenix in the 1st round, but Iverson didn't even make it to the playoffs this year... and he had a way better team.

Webber is not nearly as handicapped as people are making him seem. He doesn't hobble around on the court; he's still a capable contributer. 20 and 10 (like he got this season) isn't far from his best days (when he got 25 and 10). Webber's lost a step of explosiveness, but his midrange and post-moves make up for that. He's far from being a lifeless cancer.

I dont think you have watched many 76ers games lately....

Ditto for Lakers games...

#32 wrote:Webber is not nearly as handicapped as people are making him seem. He doesn't hobble around on the court; he's still a capable contributer. 20 and 10 (like he got this season) isn't far from his best days (when he got 25 and 10). Webber's lost a step of explosiveness, but his midrange and post-moves make up for that. He's far from being a lifeless cancer.

Webber retired two years ago. He just doesn't know it.

Nah, seriously, he's not a cancer, but I still think that Odom is better. By far.

I think Odom is better, especially at making things happen himself but Webber showed last season that he is not a has been but is a very effective player still. Pitty Webber went away from the great inside game that he was known for in college and became a jumpshooter primarily. I watched the final four back in 1992 and 1993 where the Wolverines made it to the final and Webber was a REAL dominant force inside. He is so different now

#32 wrote:Ditto for Lakers games...

haha thats the problem man i watched at least 20 lakers games last year I live in dorms......

tallboy12321 wrote:

#32 wrote:Ditto for Lakers games...

haha thats the problem man i watched at least 20 lakers games last year I live in dorms......

So did I. I caught every nationally televised game I could. And they were NOTHING special, to say the least. Odom only brought the guns out when Kobe was on the bench...

#32 wrote:

tallboy12321 wrote:

#32 wrote:Ditto for Lakers games...

haha thats the problem man i watched at least 20 lakers games last year I live in dorms......

So did I. I caught every nationally televised game I could. And they were NOTHING special, to say the least. Odom only brought the guns out when Kobe was on the bench...

which points to the fact that kobe not only is unable to make his players better , he DETRCTS from them

Okay. I'm not denying that. But I still think Iverson detracts from his teammates worse and hogs the ball more.

You can't compare the two; Iverson's supposed to be a point guard (one who distributes the ball) and he shoots more shots per night on his career than a superstar, SG ballhog (who plays one of the positions that are supposed to shoot). On principle alone, Iverson is head and shoulders worse than Kobe.

career wise it make sense considering he was a shooting guard for a large portion of his career and was put into the league as an All Star scorer while Kobe started as a young developing player so his shooting stats are deflated.

The only guy who would be a lot better without AI is Iggy and he's still young so there isnt a huge reason to be giving him 15 shots a night

tallboy12321 wrote:career wise it make sense considering he was a shooting guard for a large portion of his career and was put into the league as an All Star scorer while Kobe started as a young developing player so his shooting stats are deflated.

The only guy who would be a lot better without AI is Iggy and he's still young so there isnt a huge reason to be giving him 15 shots a night

Absolutely right! Iverson came to the nba as an already established player that was seen as a scorer and had to score right away. Kobe came to an already successful team as an 18 year old and had to wait a bit and develop. Iverson was a SG for a few years there and actually still has to play a bit like one. Iverson has to do many things on his team that many players don't have to do for theirs and one man just can't do it, which is why the sixers are not successful

tallboy12321 wrote:career wise it make sense considering he was a shooting guard for a large portion of his career and was put into the league as an All Star scorer while Kobe started as a young developing player so his shooting stats are deflated.

The only guy who would be a lot better without AI is Iggy and he's still young so there isnt a huge reason to be giving him 15 shots a night

Iverson only played 3 seasons at shooting guard. Eric Snow and he often swapped positions... and there was a time when Snow came off the bench (like Fisher last year for us) and still got major minutes.

Kobe's shooting stats are deflated for his first two seasons. After that, he plays over 37 minutes a night for the rest of his career.

The numbers aren't slanted dramatically enough for it to make a major difference. Even in 40 minutes a night, Kobe averaged less shot attempts than Iverson... and that's inexcusable for a point guard. Allen Iverson only averaged 20 or less shot attempts a game twice in his career (his first two seasons, at 19.8 & 17.6 per night). Kobe's averaged 20 or less attempts 7 times in his career (20.1, 20.0, 18.1, 17.9, 15.6, 11.6, and 5.9). Kobe's been playing SG his whole career (a starting, superstar SG for all but 2 years of it). Iverson played SG for 3 seasons... and, still, the rest of his career as a PG has been a tale of crazy attempt numbers and ballhogging.

Kobe is an easier target due to last year's performance (when he finally put the Lakers on his shoulders and did all he could), but Iverson (on his career) has been a much worse team cancer than any other player in recent memory. It's not even close.

#32 wrote:

tallboy12321 wrote:career wise it make sense considering he was a shooting guard for a large portion of his career and was put into the league as an All Star scorer while Kobe started as a young developing player so his shooting stats are deflated.

The only guy who would be a lot better without AI is Iggy and he's still young so there isnt a huge reason to be giving him 15 shots a night

Iverson only played 3 seasons at shooting guard. Eric Snow and he often swapped positions... and there was a time when Snow came off the bench (like Fisher last year for us) and still got major minutes.

Kobe's shooting stats are deflated for his first two seasons. After that, he plays over 37 minutes a night for the rest of his career.

The numbers aren't slanted dramatically enough for it to make a major difference. Even in 40 minutes a night, Kobe averaged less shot attempts than Iverson... and that's inexcusable for a point guard. Allen Iverson only averaged 20 or less shot attempts a game twice in his career (his first two seasons, at 19.8 & 17.6 per night). Kobe's averaged 20 or less attempts 7 times in his career (20.1, 20.0, 18.1, 17.9, 15.6, 11.6, and 5.9). Kobe's been playing SG his whole career (a starting, superstar SG for all but 2 years of it). Iverson played SG for 3 seasons... and, still, the rest of his career as a PG has been a tale of crazy attempt numbers and ballhogging.

Kobe is an easier target due to last year's performance (when he finally put the Lakers on his shoulders and did all he could), but Iverson (on his career) has been a much worse team cancer than any other player in recent memory. It's not even close.

you cannot seriously say that AI is more of a cancer than Kobe. KOBE is being told to run a team and has NO IDEA how to do it. AI knows that at least....

That's why AI (with, arguably, a better team) couldn't get to the playoffs while Kobe did.

Kobe has arguably the best coach in nba history and that really does make a difference as the last two seasons have shown. Last season being much better for the Laker boys than the season before