32's Two Minutes Ramble: PHILADELPHIA 76ERS

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Should Philly explore trades for Iverson in the offseason?

Yes! Get rid of him!
1
100%
No, try trading Webber first.
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No votes
No, leave the Webber-Iverson duo alone.
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No votes
It doesn't matter; nobody will take AI.
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No votes
 
Total votes : 1

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:09 pm
PHILADELPHIA 76ERS

Where They've Come From...

Unfortunately, this failed Iverson-project has been the highest place for Philly since Charles Barkley played for them. One might make an argument that their championship team posted a promising lineup, but the bottom line is that any team Allen Iverson plays for ends up with isolation and chemistry problems. Adding Mount Mutumbo in the middle worked mildly for a season or so, but only because his inside defense allowed Iverson to capitalize on several teams moving their offense towards the perimeter (where AI's quickness gives him an edge). However, the championship team (which also featured Eric Snow, Toni Kukoc, George Lynch, & Aaron McKee) came up short. The Sixers have featured several promising players since Barkley's reign, including Iverson, Jerry Stackhouse, Dikembe Mutumbo, Keith Van Horn, and (now) Chris Webber... but the best explanation for why this team continually comes up short is simply this: Allen Iverson is the complete opposite point guard from Steve Nash. To explain, Nash's personal statistics are respectable, but his true value comes from making his teammates dramatically better from where they were. With Iverson, the individual stats are there (and they're MVP-worthy, most of the time), but his style of play cripples the chemistry of any team and, ultimately, makes his teammates look worse. Since 1996, the Sixers have been basically the same team: get the ball to Iverson, watch him play offense, than get back on D. Their act has long since run dry.

D+

Where They Are...

Iverson's game is still running strong, but the Sixers are reeling. They drafted a couple talented small players in Kyle Korver and Andre Iguiodala, as well as a rock in the middle with Samuel Dalembert. The big man can block shots with the best of them, and rebounds better than most 5's, but is horribly inconsistent. Korver is a pure shooter who can blast the lights out on some nights and barely hit rim on others. Iguiodala is their most promising young talent; a hard-nosed, man-to-man defender with springs like Spud Webb and wheels like Tony Parker. He's quick, athletic, and defensively talented, with his only improvements needing to be offensively. However, no matter how drastically Billy King changes Philly's lineup, the result never deviates from the previous squad: Iverson handles, Iverson shoots, Iverson scores. Even the addition of Chris Webber did nothing to further Philly's cause; sure, Webber was handy in a way to distract the fans with his 20 & 10 "comeback" season, but the Sixers still went home by April 19th. This season proved (if it hadn't already been proven) that adding a fellow superstar with AI isn't the method to pull the Sixers out of the hole. For now, Philly isn't getting any better... and many have suspected they'll finally give in and trade "The Answer".

C-

Where They're Going...

This final category depends greatly on how King deals with Webber and Iverson. If the team keeps these two players, they'll miss the playoffs again next year. Since I can't see anybody in the league making a move for Webber's contract (at least, until it's an expirer), the smart money would be on King looking to shop Iverson around. Obviously, a good PG would be the best pickup, but is there any team out there willing to trade a good team leader for a 30-point-scoring black hole? Sure, teams will approach Billy King with offers for Iverson, but there's no way the Sixers can hope for equal value in return. In the meantime, young bucks Korver, Iguiodala, and Dalembert will suffer standing next to Iverson. Those three can be the nucleus to the Sixer's future lineup, but it all needs to start with revamping the team. Without Iverson, the Sixers would be better off in the long run.

B-
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:27 pm
without a doubt webber should be dealt first. iverson is the heart and soul of philly, if he's traded the liberty bell will crumble.

try to get the most for webber, maybe kenyon martin, even though they are equally overrated. as far as the supporting cast they have now; they're solid but not dependable. korver is garbage and should only be coming off the bench. AI2 should be taught how to shoot jumpers, maybe he can take a page out of tony parker's book and hire someone. dalembert is overpaid. they inked him to a huge deal and are pretty much stuck with an unpolished player that only gets them blocks. (hahha doesnt that sound very familiar to our situation?)

its a shame that iverson's prime has been wasted, but he went to the finals. he'll go down in history like barry bonds.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:57 pm
i like what dr frank said, get rida cwebb before AI. iverson is synonomous with philadelphia. korver sux, iggy needs to learn to shoot, dally is like foyle, hunters not too bad, dont know too much about green, salmon, or randolph.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:06 pm
But who is willing to take another risk on Webber? Is there a GM out there willing to pay his salary with his injury and motivation issues? It's no secret, Webber's completely out of his prime, but he still is a good player. In my opinion, he's of more use to Philly on the roster than he is in a trade (and I thought the same when he was on Sacramento... imagine Sac now, but with Webber instead of Skinner).

Iverson's a great player, there's no doubt... but can the Sixers honestly hope to win with him? Having a Barry Bonds in basketball doesn't work, because no single player can win or lose games for their team quite like the best home-run-hitter in baseball. Even the NBA's leading scorer can't touch what Bond's value was to San Fransisco during his home-run flurries. That being said, is Iverson's value to Philly (as a fan favorite) worth tanking a franchise for the remainder of his worthwhile career...?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:11 pm
what i meant with bonds is this...

both great players - hall of famers. but they wont get their rings.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:45 pm
To be honest, the sixers don't have decent enough talent around Iverson. It is also true that iverson does not make his teammates better and that will always be the reason why the sixers will find it hard to win a championship, let alone make it to the playoffs.

A team like the Knicks would always be willing to get Iverson and if Billy King is smart he would trade both Iverson and Webber to the Knicks because he can get some decent talent.

Possible trade:
76ers Outgoing - Iverson and Webber
Incoming - Garnett and Hudson

Knicks Outgoing - Francis, Curry, QRich
Incoming - Iverson and Webber

TWolves Outgoing - Garnett and Hudson
Incoming - Francis, QRich and Curry

This trade works for all teams and The Knicks do what they usually do, take on big contracts, the TWolves get a good center (finally), a very good PG and a sG/SF that can shoot and rebound. The sixers get Garnett and hudson who is decent.
Last edited by migya on Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:17 pm
migya wrote:This trade works for all teams and The Knicks do what they usually do, take on big contracts, the TWolves get a good center (finally), a very good PG and a sG/SF that can shoot and rebound. The sixers get Garnett and hudson who is decent.

Come on, migya. Not every team can just magically trade for Garnett and fix all of their problems.

Besides, the Knicks have their eyes on KG this offseason... not Iverson. With Marbury and Francis already in town, the LAST thing New York needs is another shoot-first, superstar point guard with a history of disrupting the offensive flow of his team. They aren't looking to keep two of those players; they grabbed Francis as a bargaining chip... not a long-term player. Marbury or Francis will be off the roster by next season's start... I guarentee it.

Besides, WHY exactly would the T-Wolves make this trade...? They lose Hudson and KEVIN freaking GARNETT... in exchange for a one-dimensional shooter with no defensive game, a burnt out, troublesome "star" that nobody wants, and an unproven (potentially good) center with a glass jaw? Here's a fact: Q-Rich, Eddy Curry, and Steve Francis all ended up on the Knicks because NOBODY ELSE WANTED THEM. The last thing McHale is going to do is take all these misfits off Zeke's back porch... in exchange for one of (if not) the game's greatest player. McHale would need to chug 3 gallons of moonshine before he'd agree to something like that. Hell, Gary Saint Jean would probably tell the Knicks to F' off with an offer like that.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:40 pm
#32 wrote:Come on, migya. Not every team can just magically trade for Garnett and fix all of their problems.

Besides, the Knicks have their eyes on KG this offseason... not Iverson. With Marbury and Francis already in town, the LAST thing New York needs is another shoot-first, superstar point guard with a history of disrupting the offensive flow of his team. They aren't looking to keep two of those players; they grabbed Francis as a bargaining chip... not a long-term player. Marbury or Francis will be off the roster by next season's start... I guarentee it.

Besides, WHY exactly would the T-Wolves make this trade...? They lose Hudson and KEVIN freaking GARNETT... in exchange for a one-dimensional shooter with no defensive game, a burnt out, troublesome "star" that nobody wants, and an unproven (potentially good) center with a glass jaw? Here's a fact: Q-Rich, Eddy Curry, and Steve Francis all ended up on the Knicks because NOBODY ELSE WANTED THEM. The last thing McHale is going to do is take all these misfits off Zeke's back porch... in exchange for one of (if not) the game's greatest player. McHale would need to chug 3 gallons of moonshine before he'd agree to something like that. Hell, Gary Saint Jean would probably tell the Knicks to F' off with an offer like that.



Seems like you hit the piss before you wrote this #32.
The Knicks would love to get Iverson and Webber, they would sell even more than what they do now!!!!
The truth is that both Marbury and Francis are probably headed out of the Knicks because it just didn't work. McHale would go for Francis because Marbury is not a fan favourite in Minnesota for the last time he was there.
The Knicks would most likely get rid of Marbury in another trade unless they believe that Marbury could be the PG and Iverson the SG.

McHale would drool over any Center that is decent, since he doesn't have one right now. Curry is potentially very good and would be a focal point in the low post. QRich, like many others, has been inprisoned in new York and would love to escape to the freedom of another team yet again. QRich did great when he was in the Clippers and the suns and could do what he did in the TWolves. Francis is still a star and one of the best PGs in the nba and PG is a weakness of the TWolves at the moment. McHale would get 3 effective players for one superstar and one taking up space and money player in hudson.

TWolves lineup:
PG - Francis
SG - QRich
SF - Ricky Davis
PF - Blount or Griffin
C - Curry
The PF spot is the only weakness but the rest are very good and PG, SG and Center are dramatically upgraded! McHale would think about this indeed!

The sixers would have a lineup of:
PG - Hudson or someone else if Hudson is injured again
SG - Korver or Green
SF - Iguodala
PF - KG
C - Dalembert
Doesn't look as good as before the trade but KG might make AI2 and Dalembert better which would make the sixers better than beofre this trade.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:02 am
migya wrote:Seems like you hit the piss before you wrote this #32.

... not sure what kind of weird, Australian slang this is... but I'll move along without your usual mud-throwing to distract me and get on with the conversation
migya wrote:TWolves lineup:
PG - Francis
SG - QRich
SF - Ricky Davis
PF - Blount or Griffin
C - Curry
The PF spot is the only weakness but the rest are very good and PG, SG and Center are dramatically upgraded! McHale would think about this indeed!

This lineup doesn't appear very solid to me. Francis is nothing but trouble and wouldn't further the Wolves at all. Q-Rich has been horrible without a Steve Nash in his lineup to free up shots for him. And, lastly, Eddy Curry isn't much of an upgrade... he's inconsistent, his health is always a risk, he had motivational problems on the Bulls, and he's still not that great when he plays to his full potential. On paper, this lineup may sound like a fair trade, but Minny ultimately gets screwed over because they gain Francis (a trigger happy, score-first guard) and lose KG. Not something McHale would EVER say yes to.

migya wrote:The sixers would have a lineup of:
PG - Hudson or someone else if Hudson is injured again
SG - Korver or Green
SF - Iguodala
PF - KG
C - Dalembert
Doesn't look as good as before the trade but KG might make AI2 and Dalembert better which would make the sixers better than beofre this trade.

Again, migya, all of your trades sound okay on paper... but when you actually watch NBA games on TV (not simply highlights or box scores), you tend to notice how teams revolve around their star. This lineup looks disturbingly close to the one KG's already got: a high-flying sidekick, an inconsistent lump in the key, and under-par guards. The Sixers would turn into the 2007 version of what the Timberwolves are today. Billy King's not that stupid. He'd probably pull the trigger on an Iverson-for-KG trade... but not if he couldn't get a decent PG back in return (especially if he ended up shelling out Webber, too). This trade belongs with the other two: in the toilet.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:29 am
Hitting the piss means drinking alcohol!

McHale just won't get equal value for Garnett and no more than equal if he's lucky! I've said this before and it can be seen in previous trades involving superstars!

Curry has just underachieved but is still better than anyone in the TWolves at Center right now. Francis had a bad season but look at his career, he has been a top 10 PG since the beginning! McHale would be crazy not to get all three players if he had the chance because they are all an upgrade to what he has now at those positions. With their draft pick in this draft, they can get a PF (they will keep their draft pick I think).

The sixers don't get better on paper but the thing is that KG allows the development of a player like Iguodala and that is where the future of the sixers lies, in players like AI2 and Dalembert. It just hasn't worked with Iverson and Webber, the sixers should have made the playoffs this season
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:54 am
migya wrote:Possible trade:
76ers Outgoing - Iverson and Webber
Incoming - Garnett and Hudson

Knicks Outgoing - Francis, Curry, QRich
Incoming - Iverson and Garnett

TWolves Outgoing - Garnett and Hudson
Incoming - Francis, QRich and Curry


I love this trade. How did NY AND Philly end up with KG? :mrgreen:

If this trade were to happen, I think NY would trade straight up with Minny to get KG, forget Webber and Iverson. After all, Minny ends up with only Knicks players, so there's no need for a third team.

And, back to topic, Iverson shouldn't be trade, and Webber can't be traded til his last year, so Philly's stuck with them.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:46 pm
TMC wrote:
migya wrote:Possible trade:
76ers Outgoing - Iverson and Webber
Incoming - Garnett and Hudson

Knicks Outgoing - Francis, Curry, QRich
Incoming - Iverson and Garnett

TWolves Outgoing - Garnett and Hudson
Incoming - Francis, QRich and Curry


I love this trade. How did NY AND Philly end up with KG? :mrgreen:


Where, I don't see it now :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:47 pm
If the Knicks had a chance to get Webber and Iverson over Hudson and KG, they'd do it. Most teams would. The sixers are in a hole right now and unless they can figure out a good team strategy and a better way to utilise players like Dalembert and Korver, they will not make the playoffs
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:40 am
migya wrote:If the Knicks had a chance to get Webber and Iverson over Hudson and KG, they'd do it. Most teams would. The sixers are in a hole right now and unless they can figure out a good team strategy and a better way to utilise players like Dalembert and Korver, they will not make the playoffs


Coaching. That's the key for that team. Since Larry Brown left they've never had a decent coach (well, O'Brien was ok, but never really liked the roster). Dalembert has shown he's a legit center, he just needs to focus more on his game. He looks lost too often. Korver is ok as a role player from the bench.

I think Louis Williams may end up as a steal in the second round for Philly, but it will take him a couple more years to earn some playing time. They just need a better sf/sg (Iggy can play the other spot) and a good coach, and the Sixers are a playoff team.

In fact, they're pretty similar to us...
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:43 am
TMC wrote:
migya wrote:If the Knicks had a chance to get Webber and Iverson over Hudson and KG, they'd do it. Most teams would. The sixers are in a hole right now and unless they can figure out a good team strategy and a better way to utilise players like Dalembert and Korver, they will not make the playoffs


Coaching. That's the key for that team. Since Larry Brown left they've never had a decent coach (well, O'Brien was ok, but never really liked the roster). Dalembert has shown he's a legit center, he just needs to focus more on his game. He looks lost too often. Korver is ok as a role player from the bench.

I think Louis Williams may end up as a steal in the second round for Philly, but it will take him a couple more years to earn some playing time. They just need a better sf/sg (Iggy can play the other spot) and a good coach, and the Sixers are a playoff team.

In fact, they're pretty similar to us...



You're right about the sixers needing a better coach, Maurice Cheeks would be better off as a consultanat that is a friend of the players but as a coach he has failed, in his years in Portland and now in the sixers. I also think that their team just isn't talented enough. Korver is a role player that can only shoot (well used he could be a major role player, like Kerr on the Bulls teams) and Dalembert is an up and coming player who rebounds and blocks with the absolute best in the nba. Dalembert must be allowed to flourish because a Center is a rarity (one that is effective anyway). It doesn't look like it will work with Iverson and webber because to superstars with role players should work quite well but yet it didn't at all. The sixers need the team system for it to work
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