Game Thread: Memphis Grizzlies @ Warriors 2012-11-02

Talk about the upcoming Warriors game here

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:14 am
Well, martin, once again I'm gonna have to fight you on this:

There's not a coach in the league who could have pulled out that victory last night. The Warriors held the Grizzlies at bay on the glass, shot essentially the same percentage from the floor and for 3, blocked as many shots, committed as many fouls... But Memphis was 28-of-34 from the line bro. The Warriors were 12-of-17. They lost by 10 in a game where the opposition shot TWICE AS MANY FREE THROWS (and, to their credit, knocked them down and put themselves in a position to get to the line). Without Brandon Rush, our perimeter D was barbecue chicken and Rudy Gay, Mike Conley, and Wayne Ellington went off.

Not only that, but their big players (without Bogut at 100% to anchor the defense) literally played tic-tac-toe on the back door cut against us. Marc Gasol flipped 5 dimes and was a game-high +17. His opposite number, a wobbly, winded Andrew Bogut, was -16.

There's nothing the coach can do in those situations to win the game. This sport is 90% players and 10% coaching and I'm sorry to say that Jackson's 10%, no matter how good or bad you took it as, could not salvage the victory last night. I also need to see a link before I believe that Curry - a laid back, class act - would publicly speak out against a known player's coach who lets his point guard run the whole game. I seriously doubt Curry has any sort of problem with MJ, but if you can supply me a link, I'm not above admitting when I'm wrong.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:09 am
Battle is fine with me, as long as it keeps civil and not smug, like it has happened many times before and with blackfoot happening again.

You can play slow against memphis and see what they will do in the half-court, which most of the time will be massacring you. Hence the foul differential - they are bigger, meaner and much more physical. So, yes no coach could have won a game against grizzlies yesterday playing the slow game. Once warriors started to push up the tempo and have some open looks they cut the deficit to +1. In these kind of games you forget about trying to match up when you have no tools. I'm sorry, but Randolph is too mean for Lee to handle and Gasol is too healthy for Bogut at this phase. So what you do? What they did in second quarter. Run and gun. Trying to catch them not set on defense.
I'll give a name of a coach who could have won this game for us - Rick Carlisle. He's done exactly the thing against big Lakers in the season opening with mavs who started fricking Brandon Wright at pf! You see the pattern, get quicker if you have no power, and open the floor. Run. You have better bench, why not ignite the ****ing fire till it all drops?
As far as consensus go, Harrison Barnes is said to have had a good defensive effort against Gay. I'm not saying he locked him down. But he slowed him for amounts of time. The tiredness must have gotten him at the end.

As for Curry tidbit, I took it from here https://twitter.com/poormanscommish

And it's painfully difficult to watch Lee trying to force some shots against set defense like Memphis.

Also it looks like we'll have Bogut only in spurts for whole month, which doesn't bode well for our start of the season - you try to accomodate offense to the player who essentially is a moral boost with a play there and there, smokes and mirrors again in this warrior land. Oh, well, at least we'll play Sacramento monday (the battle of two out their own league coaches) and Cleveland after tonight's inevitable massacre.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nb ... e/1678771/
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:42 am
Well, according to the #'s, Memphis beat our fast-break offense as well; FBP's were 14 the Warriors' 8. Run-and-gun is pretty heavily dependent on winning in the points-off-turnovers department, which, again, Memphis won 21-10. No points off turnovers, no run-and-gun.

No matter how you attack them, with whatever coach... Mark Jackson, Rick Carlisle, Don Nelson, whoever... When you run into a more talented, healthier team whose playing on their game, you can't win. You're just not going to beat Memphis with them shooting twice as many free throws; they rebound too well, their half court is among the league's best, and they force you into being a perimeter team when Gasol's in the game. Curry made the outside game work in the second quarter, but they put him under a microscope in the 2nd half and it's no secret that physical play typically upsets shooters. As with Dragic on Wednesday, Conley and Bayless hammered Curry and made him passive.

With Rush gone and Barnes getting the rookie treatment from the zebras, we had no penetrators to keep the d on their heels. Credit Memphis for being the better team. You can't call for a coach's dismissal when you lose to a better squad. If they lose to the Kings or the Cav's next week, then we'll talk about what Jackson is doing wrong.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:41 pm
32 wrote:Well, according to the #'s, Memphis beat our fast-break offense as well; FBP's were 14 the Warriors' 8. Run-and-gun is pretty heavily dependent on winning in the points-off-turnovers department, which, again, Memphis won 21-10. No points off turnovers, no run-and-gun.

No matter how you attack them, with whatever coach... Mark Jackson, Rick Carlisle, Don Nelson, whoever... When you run into a more talented, healthier team whose playing on their game, you can't win. You're just not going to beat Memphis with them shooting twice as many free throws; they rebound too well, their half court is among the league's best, and they force you into being a perimeter team when Gasol's in the game. Curry made the outside game work in the second quarter, but they put him under a microscope in the 2nd half and it's no secret that physical play typically upsets shooters. As with Dragic on Wednesday, Conley and Bayless hammered Curry and made him passive.

With Rush gone and Barnes getting the rookie treatment from the zebras, we had no penetrators to keep the d on their heels. Credit Memphis for being the better team. You can't call for a coach's dismissal when you lose to a better squad. If they lose to the Kings or the Cav's next week, then we'll talk about what Jackson is doing wrong.


First: I think is a consequence not a cause. Not creating enough opportunities for fast break by creating turnovers. Not pushing the tempo to have what might be called 'tactical fast break ball' - creating open shots by being a step faster than a defense. That might include early in the attack screens for quick threes, and having bogut and ezeli plus curry being hot from 3 point land, could have been a choice. Something like 'we believe' warriors did to mavs. Which leads to my second point.

Second: I think don nelson has done that at least several times in his career - beating better teams with innovative tactics. And the point is to throw them out of their game, make them adjust instead of playing straight up with lesser talent being focal point on offense. Make curry shoot 26 shots. Make steals your primary defensive weapon. Let them score earlier in the clock to get yourself running. To get easy baskets. Easy baskets are non existent in this warriors offense. No one's leaking out after rebounds.

Third: and if we win against those teams will that mean jackson is alright? Coaches are measured by having the team play up and above the expectations - making the team something else then the sum of the parts. Granted it's early in the season, chemistry might not be there. But game adjustments are not there as well.

If we manage to beat only sacs and cavs of this league, how in the world anyone may say that they expect to be in the playoffs? Wolves with love and rubio out can handle Sac. Chi with nate robinson being the leader off the bench can destroy cavs. These are teams I can't think of losing to. That would mean not only the failure of our coach, but maybe be a hint to the fact that we overvalue our players, which would mean a tough time for GM come trade deadline.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:58 am
1, I disagree. Turnovers spark the fast break. Increasing your offensive tempo doesn't help you create more turnovers because it doesn't necessarily mean your opponent will do the same. The best ways to goad them into your tempo are to play shitty transition defense and/or to go small. That's not what this team is about this year; we're trying to ditch our dependency on Nellie Ball because over a season it is not effective. I'd rather lose a solid game to a better team than resort to Nellie Ball and write paragraphs about how the coach needs to quit ignoring Landry and Ezeli.

2, I said "when they're on their game". Nellie could beat healthier, better teams... But never when they were on their game. The whole Dallas series was a success because Nellie invited the Mavs out of their comfort zone and AJ stupidly obliged. Memphis is too solid to be goaded into a run-and-gun affair with the Warriors.

3, We just beat the Clippers, convincingly, in all categories, without Bogut or Rush, in their building. What do you think of Jackson now?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:54 pm
1. I don't see a necessary link between playing fast and turning the ball over. Also i don't see how uptempo game means going small. You can play fast with big players. Grab a rebound and start the attack without looking for a called play. It's pretty much what warriors did to start the clippers game - the pull up three in the first seconds of shot clock by Thompson illustrates what I mean. This was the first game where they went to attack early in the first quarter to establish fast pace game. And with shooters they have punch the first knockdown to clippers. It's like mark jackson read my posts, man :mrgreen:

2. This is just reverse logic. The goal of nelson's tactics was to force the team to play not their game. They could not be on their game because of that, not because they were not on their game in the first place. It's pretty much what any good prepared team does. Force their way of playing onto other one. Yes, he could not have beaten the much more better team, but he was beating better teams constantly.

3. Yeah, and jackson had them playing the same way as they did in first two games? This was 'uptempo shoot early if you have a shot spread the floor' or ballet offense as I called it game through most of it. He gave the team a chance to win. The end of the game is another thing. This was nothing like suns or memphis game. If he has the team playing like that I will have not much criticism of it.
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