2012-'13 Warriors Scouting Reports

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:11 am
Hello all; I figured with less than a month until tip-off, I would go ahead and post some of my scouting reports for some of our overseas members - as well as any new Warriors fans or anybody lacking the league-pass to have closely followed guys like Andrew Bogut or Carl Landry. Let's start with the starting lineups and I'll add more if the thread picks up any steam. I'm hoping to generate some convo on the type of styles certain players have and how they'll fit together. Enjoy!

32 wrote:2012-2013 GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS SCOUTING REPORTS

C - 6 - ANDREW BOGUT

STRENGTHS (+): Defensively speaking, trails only Dwight Howard as the baddest beast on the Serengeti. Timing on blocked shots borders precognition; extremely efficient shot-blocker with consistent length and weight advantages. Changes shots, commits hard fouls, clears the boards, bodies up even the biggest of ogres. One of, if not the best, centers in terms of taking charges and drawing fouls. Bonafide size; 7-feet tall, 265 pounds, supreme strength in the paint, gets off of two feet incredibly quickly and explosively, rockets out from under the cup for backboard swaying slams. Bogut is slick near the rim; comfortable scoring underhanded, tips balls with military precision, uses head fakes and ball swings to draw fouls. Among the best 7-footers at passing the ball; can drop no looks in the lane and has thrown behind the back baseline passes more than once. Overall, a prototypical center: mean, tough, ideal size, and undeniable skillset.

WEAKNESSES (-): Disappointingly poor shooter for someone who displays such touch at close range; can’t hit free throws and is seemingly best suited to put it up within 8 feet. His need to contest every shot puts him on dunk posters and in foul trouble with disturbing regularity. Not a go-to-scorer and despite his intelligence and skill, can flat out disappear on the scoreboard certain nights. Prone to missing games due to a checkered injury history that – while it has yet to be proven chronic – has followed him around never the less. Despite being a top 3 defensive center, is somewhere between 12-20 in terms of offense. Shows flashes of enforcement, but has yet to truly embrace the role of dominance.

Offensive game… 3.5/5
Defensive game….. 5/5
Intangibles………..… 4.5/5
Skill……………………... 4/5
Effort………………..…. 4/5


OVERALL: 84

PF - 10 - DAVID LEE

STRENGTHS (+): Extremely clever power forward. Can work from the elbow, the block, the wing, off the ball, or even occasionally as an initiator. Deceptively ambidextrous; Lee is surgically precise with his right hand and, along with the usual hooks, lay-ins, and dunks, has also shown short range touch with his off-hand. Jumper is streaky, but when it’s on it will extend out to 18 feet and become automatic in spurts. When this happens, Lee faces up out of the elbow and uses the triple-threat as effective as any PF in the league; his pump fake draws fouls and opens the lane for Lee to use his guard-like handles en route to the cup. A point guard until mid-high-school, Lee see’s the play develop on the fly, skips passes on the perimeter, is not above making the extra dish, and has displayed a knack for the drive-and-kick to open up corner three-point shooters (bear in mind, this is a 6’10” power forward we’re talking about). Lee pushes the break and when his guards are unavailable, is perfectly capable of initiating the offense himself. David Lee is an all-star level rebounder, double-tough, who fights through injuries, takes heavy contact inside, wrestles for possessions, and always goes after a loose ball with full effort. Despite a reputation as a stat-hound, Lee has displayed a willingness to tip rebounds to teammates instead of hogging numbers, as his detractors would claim. Among the league’s most fearsome on the offensive glass. Lee is a first rate vocal leader who makes no excuses to the media and carries himself as a class act on and off the court.

WEAKNESSES (-): Lee does not possess professional-level lateral movement and his inability to move side-to-side quickly allows quicker forwards to blow by his matador-style of defense for easy hoops. Lee is also a near 7-footer without the slightest interest in blocking shots or defending the rim. Opponents use this knowledge to take their time on jump shots, knowing Lee will only offer a lackluster attempt to contest (in any). While Lee is a top-rate rebounder in his own right, he has shown that he is often incapable of keeping other glass hounds off the boards (ie, Lee will leave the game with 12 rebounds, but if he’s playing Kevin Love or Blake Griffin, they typically will too). Because Lee is most comfortable facing up and putting the ball on the floor, his offense will stall and become transparent when his jumper doesn’t fall and opponents will play him exclusively for the drive. He’s not a huge threat from the block and if he’s forced to work entirely out of a back-to-the-basket position, he will flounder more than flourish. David Lee is also athletically overrated; despite winning a dunk contest in high school, he does not win many jump-balls and plays the game primarily below the rim (even in the paint).

Offensive game… 4.5/5
Defensive game….. 1.5/5
Intangibles………….. 4/5
Skill……………………… 5/5
Effort…………………… 5/5


OVERALL: 80

SG - 4 - BRANDON RUSH

STRENGTHS (+): Surprisingly versatile for a knock-down spot-up shooter. In terms of outside range, Rush is automatic from the corner, knocks it down in transition, and has one of Golden State’s most effective pump fakes when he feels like driving the ball. From inside 10 feet, Rush is adept at hitting shots off the glass, off-balanced, or with contact. He is an underrated rebounder that clears the boards on defense rather than leaking out for fast breaks. Rush is also a prototypical wing defender, who could be spare to be a little more pestering, but otherwise has ideal length, size, strength, and quickness in terms of defending the perimeter. He is explosive and loves the baseline drive out of the corner. Rush often has an athletic advantage on his opposition in one way or another and has made no beefs about being a team’s 6th man. He is an ultimate teammate, willing to do whatever the team needs him to do in order to succeed. Along with his league-leading 3-point shooting, Rush is a surprisingly versatile and athletic guard who can play both sides of the court and is one of the league’s best kept secrets.

WEAKNESSES (-): Overly embraces his status as a role player; some might claim that Rush plays within himself, but others have a legitimate argument that Rush doesn’t assert himself nearly enough. Can be flat-out passive on some nights and falls in love with his stand-still jumper way too often. Does not utilize his pump fake or driving skills nearly enough and shows zero interest in distributing on the drive. As hinted above, his defense is solid, but you get the feeling that Rush could be a lock-down defender if he really put the work in. Likewise, Rush has the physical attributes to draw more fouls, but doesn’t. He’s also completely dependent on a playmaker; Rush never puts him man in isolation and is among the worst Warrior guards at moving without the ball.

Offensive game… 4/5
Defensive game….. 4/5
Intangibles………….. 3/5
Skill……………………… 4/5
Effort…………………… 3/5


OVERALL: 72

SG - 11 - KLAY THOMPSON

STRENGTHS (+): The second coming of Reggie Miller; Thompson is a 6’7” sharp-shooter whose range extends out to half-court, his touch is virtually unaffected by defense, and he is already one of the league’s most effective players at running off screens. Strange as it sounds, Thompson often appears more comfortable behind the three-point line than in front of it. He has a silky smooth, quick-release, high-arcing jumper that has become his best friend out of college. A heady player, Thompson makes the right play almost every time (which is saying something for a guy that only has a rookie season under his belt). His handles and court vision also gave Mark Jackson incentive to test out Thompson at the point last year. He is an underrated, albeit unspectacular, defensive player who may not get all the glitzy stats but is constantly throwing a hand in his man’s face. An all-around scorer, Thompson’s clockwork jumper opens up other parts of his game, allowing him easy driving lanes and extra defenders (where he almost always hits the open man). Given the right amount of responsibility, Thompson could feasibly evolve into the Warriors’ best player down the line.

WEAKNESSES (-): Outside of shooting over smaller guards, Thompson does not use his height in any sort of meaningful way. He isn’t an impressive rebounder for a 2-guard, he doesn’t block many shots on smaller opponents, and while he uses them all over the place, Thompson has no interest in setting solid screens for his teammates. Thompson is also a bit athletically overmatched and will get beat by quick and/or strong guards alike. He has yet to go into a true cold spell, so it will be interesting to see how Thompson handles the adversity when his jumper isn’t falling. He shows no game with his back-to-the-basket and hasn’t the slightest clue in how to crash the boards when his big men are getting beat. Overall, Thompson has many fixable mistakes and if he hopes to remain effective, he’ll need to address them (as teams zoned into him during the final 2 weeks of the season and his percentages dropped across the board).

Offensive game… 4.5/5
Defensive game….. 2/5
Intangibles………….. 4/5
Skill……………………… 4/5
Effort…………………… 4/5


OVERALL: 74

PG -30 - STEPH CURRY

STRENGTHS (+): Among the most fundamentally sound players to hit the pro game in the past 10 years, Steph Curry’s masterfully crafted skillset is often reserved for the true greats of the game. He can catch-and-shoot with his momentum taking him entirely away from the basket. He shoots free throws in the mid-90 percentile. He uses the rim against shot-blockers and despite being constantly overmatched in the paint, uses a tear-drop floater with cat-burglar release and unreachable arc to score almost on command. Curry has clairvoyant court vision and completes half-court lobs, one-handed zip passes, and no-look drop offs as easily as his marksman-like chest passes. He always makes the defender commit on the fast-break, uses head-fakes and hesitation in the Olajuwon category, and can scoop shots off the glass like a post player. He reads opponents eyes and is usually good for 2 steals every night. Despite all the intangibles, Curry’s bread-and-butter is his jumper: a fundamental masterpiece including instantaneous release, stratospheric arc, and excellent follow-through; a weapon that has already made him of the most feared all-around shooter in the game.

WEAKNESSES (-): Curry displays an unattractive laziness at times. He can toss frustrated lukewarm passes in the backcourt after an opponent scores (leading to an additional bucket). He lets his opposition beat him to loose balls. Perhaps most annoying of all, Curry has an insistence upon throwing a one-handed bounce pass at the top of the arc which has been cut off more than it’s been completed. Not particularly fast or explosive, Curry doesn’t have the first stop to blow by defenders with a simple crossover and must rely (heavily) on his craft and skill. When that becomes too much of a bother, he falls in love with the step-back jumper – which isn’t always a bad thing, but doesn’t work for long periods of time against lankier or quicker guards. Curry has little to no strength in terms of fortifying his position and gets pushed off course on both screens and on the glass. He has also, to date, failed to become to the team’s primary offensive option, even when Monta Ellis would be resting on the bench. Curry’s willingness, or lack there of, to put the team on his back remains his biggest question mark.

Offensive game… 4.5/5
Defensive game….. 2.5/5
Intangibles………….. 5/5
Skill……………………… 5/5
Effort…………………… 3/5


OVERALL: 80
Last edited by 32 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:47 am
This is great stuff 32, thanks.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:39 am
Excellent right up and the points that stood out for me:

Bogut : while he is a top 3 defensive center, they rated him 12-20 on the offensive end, I find to appalling considering the limited amount of skilled Centers. I honestly don't know much about Bogut's offensive game but am guessing he will average over 15 per game, which to me rates him way above the 12-20 centers offensive Lee.

Lee: My question is why doesn't Lee Bulk up a bit, I don't believe the idea that if you gain muscle you lose speed, take a look at Lebron, from high school to now he transformed his body, and still maintains elite speed, but his power now, dudes like a brick. Strength matters in the league and in basketball. Ok, some might now argue the point that Kevin Love has actually lost weight since he entered the league, and he is putting crazy numbers, but In feel that is due to the fact his team lacks players capable, plus Klove is the most instinctive basketball rebounder in the league. The fact he lacks bulk has seen more Klove on the perimeter than the block, same can be said for Lee, and we need our PF on the block.

Klay: Lights out jumper, pretty good assement, Reggie Miller 2.0

Curry: needs to really focus, I don't see that killer instinct in him sometimes, its his team now with no monta around.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:06 pm
warriorsstepup wrote:Excellent right up and the points that stood out for me:

Bogut : while he is a top 3 defensive center, they rated him 12-20 on the offensive end, I find to appalling considering the limited amount of skilled Centers. I honestly don't know much about Bogut's offensive game but am guessing he will average over 15 per game, which to me rates him way above the 12-20 centers offensive Lee.

Lee: My question is why doesn't Lee Bulk up a bit, I don't believe the idea that if you gain muscle you lose speed, take a look at Lebron, from high school to now he transformed his body, and still maintains elite speed, but his power now, dudes like a brick. Strength matters in the league and in basketball. Ok, some might now argue the point that Kevin Love has actually lost weight since he entered the league, and he is putting crazy numbers, but In feel that is due to the fact his team lacks players capable, plus Klove is the most instinctive basketball rebounder in the league. The fact he lacks bulk has seen more Klove on the perimeter than the block, same can be said for Lee, and we need our PF on the block.

Klay: Lights out jumper, pretty good assement, Reggie Miller 2.0

Curry: needs to really focus, I don't see that killer instinct in him sometimes, its his team now with no monta around.




I doubt Lee bulking up would help him at pf. It won't improve his lateral speed. Amare bulked up and it hindered his game. When you bulk up, you gain more weight in general, it ain't easy to play bulked up. You can't compare him to Lebron. Lee is a finesse player, bulking up would take him away from that. It could make him more injury prone. Besides, Lee is already about 250 pounds. How much more do you want your 6 foot 9 pf to weigh? That isn't exactly light.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:46 am
Thanks for the feedback, guys! I'm glad a couple of you are interested in these. Let's address some of the points warriorsstepup brought to the plate:

warriorsstepup wrote:Bogut : while he is a top 3 defensive center, they rated him 12-20 on the offensive end, I find to appalling considering the limited amount of skilled Centers. I honestly don't know much about Bogut's offensive game but am guessing he will average over 15 per game, which to me rates him way above the 12-20 centers offensive Lee.

Oh, don't get me wrong: Bogut can be a Top 10 offensive center when he feels the urge to dominate. The problem is similar to Mike Dunleavy Jr's issue from a few years back: the man can be flat-out passive.

As it stands, in a purely offensive sense, I'd take Andrew Bynum, Dwight Howard, Nene, DeMarcus Cousins, Roy Hibbert, Al Horford, Brook Lopez, Chris Kaman, Greg Monroe, Marc Gasol, and Marcin Gortat over Bogut. That's off the top of my head. And already, that knocks him out of the Top 10. I bet if I combed the list of NBA centers, I could name you 5 or 6 more guys with a superior offensive game to Andrew Bogut. Offense isn't the big Aussie's calling card.

Now, that's not to say he isn't a top 5 NBA center when healthy. Honestly, I've watched Bogut, Chandler, and Howard all play the pivot and Andrew Bogut is easily the smartest of all 3 men when it comes to executing on defense. In my estimation, he's second only to Howard - and it's purely because Howard's a genetic freak that can block shots above the backboard. If all physical gifts were equal, Bogut is the top defensive center in the game. He's an excellent piece to this team... but, again, offensively, he's pretty mild and I think Warriors fans expecting - as you said - 15 points per game are going to be disappointed. In 30 or 32 minutes per night, expect Bogut to collect around 12 points on 7 or 8 shots. Half the time, he'll leave the game in single digits.

warriorsstepup wrote:Lee: My question is why doesn't Lee Bulk up a bit, I don't believe the idea that if you gain muscle you lose speed, take a look at Lebron, from high school to now he transformed his body, and still maintains elite speed, but his power now, dudes like a brick. Strength matters in the league and in basketball. Ok, some might now argue the point that Kevin Love has actually lost weight since he entered the league, and he is putting crazy numbers, but In feel that is due to the fact his team lacks players capable, plus Klove is the most instinctive basketball rebounder in the league. The fact he lacks bulk has seen more Klove on the perimeter than the block, same can be said for Lee, and we need our PF on the block.

Hey, you'll never get an argument from me that adding strength or power is a bad thing. But what exactly are we trying to accomplish here? Lee already rebounds at the highest level possible (9.6 RPG on his career) and his offensive game isn't limited by his strength. :dontknow:

Even on defense, Lee is pretty useful when it comes to shoving big men off the low block. It's not muscle David Lee is lacking; its side-to-side speed. His problems stem from not being able to stay in front of his man and not being able to box out frenetically active rebounders. If you ask me, his strength is already in tip-top condition.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:41 pm
The reason I mentioned Lee and adding bulk is hopes it might provide him with some power aka the reason he plays the PF position. I know he is more a finesse player as mentioned, and maybe power might hinder his ability. While he is a great rebounder how does he do against other opponents and keeping them off the glass, as the article mentioned he might get his rebounds but so does the opposition. Rebounding is about position, strength, and conditioning.

And when I say bulked up am not say, stiff, hulk bulk, just want to see some cuts, see the effort on the muscles, look at Lee's arms.

Since you mentioned the other Centers I can see how he can be categorized in the top 10. This season will open my eyes about Boguts game.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:30 pm
I dunno if I agree with you two regarding Lee purely as a "finesse" player. I'd say he's a hybrid. Sure, he has the grace to knock down jumpers and put the ball on the floor, but he's an absolute terror on the glass and sets a flattening screen. He's far from soft, IMHO.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:51 am
Lee is in no way, shape, or form a "terror" on the glass. He's probably a career 8 rebounds a game player and although that is effective, he is FAR from being a menace on the board. Don't get me wrong though; David Lee can be a valuable piece on a winning team, but he has to have the right people around him. Just like how Philli surrounded Allen Iverson with big time defensive players is the same way how David Lee needs top defensive players on his team to overlook his defensive short comings. I like Lee as much as the next guy, but I think you give him way too much credit.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:55 am
Shoulv'e looked it up before I posted, but Lee averages 9.6 rebounds a game in his career. Although that is a highly effective rebounding rate, I think we can agree that it is not worthy of saying that he is any better than a good rebounder.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:57 am
I respectfully disagree, bro. Lee has averaged 10 or more rebounds in 3 of the past 5 seasons. He's had multiple games with 20 or more boards. As I said above, he's a career 9.6 per game rebounder. Sure, you can make a case that he's not THE single best rebounder (like Kevin Love), but I dunno how you honestly can say with a straight face that Lee is simply a "good" rebounder and nothing more. For 2 years running, he's pretty much been a non-stop double-double machine.

The Warriors went from dead last in the league (30th) the season before to 19th in the league in total rebounds the year after adding Lee. Now, I'm not claiming he solved all the issues on the glass, god knows they still need help and hopefully Bogut and Landry address a lot of that, but the fact remains, after the Warriors added David Lee (and lost Turiaf and Randolph), they jumped 11 spots in the rebounding column. That's a huge improvement.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:09 am
32 wrote:I respectfully disagree, bro. Lee has averaged 10 or more rebounds in 3 of the past 5 seasons. He's had multiple games with 20 or more boards. As I said above, he's a career 9.6 per game rebounder. Sure, you can make a case that he's not THE single best rebounder (like Kevin Love), but I dunno how you honestly can say with a straight face that Lee is simply a "good" rebounder and nothing more. For 2 years running, he's pretty much been a non-stop double-double machine.

The Warriors went from dead last in the league (30th) the season before to 19th in the league in total rebounds the year after adding Lee. Now, I'm not claiming he solved all the issues on the glass, god knows they still need help and hopefully Bogut and Landry address a lot of that, but the fact remains, after the Warriors added David Lee (and lost Turiaf and Randolph), they jumped 11 spots in the rebounding column. That's a huge improvement.



If the Warriors can't rebound with Bogut and Lee, what would the reason for that be iyo?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:17 am
Stairway Man wrote:
32 wrote:I respectfully disagree, bro. Lee has averaged 10 or more rebounds in 3 of the past 5 seasons. He's had multiple games with 20 or more boards. As I said above, he's a career 9.6 per game rebounder. Sure, you can make a case that he's not THE single best rebounder (like Kevin Love), but I dunno how you honestly can say with a straight face that Lee is simply a "good" rebounder and nothing more. For 2 years running, he's pretty much been a non-stop double-double machine.

The Warriors went from dead last in the league (30th) the season before to 19th in the league in total rebounds the year after adding Lee. Now, I'm not claiming he solved all the issues on the glass, god knows they still need help and hopefully Bogut and Landry address a lot of that, but the fact remains, after the Warriors added David Lee (and lost Turiaf and Randolph), they jumped 11 spots in the rebounding column. That's a huge improvement.



If the Warriors can't rebound with Bogut and Lee, what would the reason for that be iyo?

Well, I can only imagine it would be similar to the '10-'11 season when Lee made his Warrior debut: he and Andris did a formidable job combating the glass in the starting lineup, but centers typically can't play above the shallow 30's in minutes and, literally, outside of Lee and Biedrins, there wasn't a single Warrior interested in clearing the boards.

Likewise this season, I expect Bogut and Lee to be enforcers on the glass (particularly on the defensive end, where the Warriors surrender more offensive rebounds than any other team in the league last year)... but if the guards can't help occasionally and if the bench doesn't rebound, it'll be curtains again. Udoh, as good a shot-blocker as he was, didn't clear boards, and he was the team's 3rd big man a year ago. With the collapse of Biedrins' game, my hope is that Harrison Barnes can be good for at least 5 rebounds from the 3 spot, along with dudes like Ezeli, Jefferson, and Landry providing off the bench. Fitgerald loves to say it, and it's true: EVERYONE's gotta rebound.

If you're relying on two dudes to provide your entire team with possessions, you're in trouble.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:46 pm
It will be interesting to see Lee's numbers, in particular his rebounding numbers, next to Bogut. He has to rebound as he has or he will not be a good PF. I think the team should be a top ten rebounding team this season.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:37 am
I see no reason why he wouldn't. Lee's a better rebounder than Bogut.

Sharing the glass with someone almost always nets you less rebounds, though. That's what happened to Dream when Sir Charles arrived. Lee might concievably end up with 8 or 9 boards instead of 10 next year. And I dunno if I'd say he's not a good player, if that's the case. David Lee is a potential #1 scoring option; he literally carried the Warriors offense and kept them from being unwatchable all of last year, with the entire team draping him in coverage.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:38 pm
"Preseason Warrior's Player Rankings" - unofficial of course.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1365970-nba-preseason-golden-state-warriors-player-power-rankings
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