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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:53 pm
Lakers are not going to win seventy games. They are a great team and a favorite to come out of the west, but with a new team there is always chemistry problems at the start. You are not going to breeze to 60 wins with your second, third, and fourth best players at the ages of 36, 33, and 39. It just won't happen. They will be the second seed and will probably produce a great match up between the Thunder if they do face and there are no upsets.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:39 pm
I agree. No way the lakers win 70 wins. 60 is possible. This lakers team is sort of build like when the Lakers brought in Malone and Payton in 2004. They made it to the finals (on just talent), but they were flawed all season (no chemistry). They lost to the ultimate team-first Pistons... still my favorite NBA finals in the post Jordan era.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:32 pm
hobbes wrote:
migya wrote:
rockyBeli wrote:
Knightofoceans wrote:Anyone else seeing the potential for the Lakers to be a walking time bomb? Two (three All-Stars) of the biggest personality players in the game playing together and demanding the ball..could be great or could be a lot worse than what we all think.


Hope so haha. Cuz that's the only way they'll lose if they beat themselves imo. I see them breezing to 60+ wins maybe 70? That team is scary.



I'll say that the Lakers, if mostly all healthy, will win 70 games.



I agree on the Lakers winning 70 if they stay healthy. Unless, they rest Nash, Howard, Kobe a lot late in the year. Nash and Kobe are old, and it will be interesting to see how DH's creaky back holds up this year.



Reason why I think fatigue won't be a problem for them is because Nash is one of the most well conditioned players I've ever seen and Kobe is well conditioned himself. Dwight is one of the best conditioned Centers I have ever seen, so those three older players will be stars all the time. The only thing that can stop them is injuries and possible lack of chemistry.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:45 pm
Mr. Crackerz wrote:I agree. No way the lakers win 70 wins. 60 is possible. This lakers team is sort of build like when the Lakers brought in Malone and Payton in 2004. They made it to the finals (on just talent), but they were flawed all season (no chemistry). They lost to the ultimate team-first Pistons... still my favorite NBA finals in the post Jordan era.



I can see the comparison, but I think this Lakers team is vastly different in that Nash hasn't fallen off much at all from his best seasons, where Payton had. KMalone was also very old and unfortunately had his only injury riddled season (F'in Lakers :mrgreen: ). Unless that happens with at least one of the four Lakers great players, the Lakers can and likely will have one real great season and I think 70 games is more than possible.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:46 am
No matter how well conditioned Steve Nash is he is still 39 and will decline a little bit. And you also have to keep in mind the older you get the more chance of an exponential drop off opposed to a steady decline. However, I think it will be just a slight decline and they will either be the second or third seed, probably second.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:05 am
You have a top 5 PG, the best SG still, a very good defending SF, a top 5 PF and the best Center there is. Only way you can say the Lakers won't likely be the #1 team at regular season's end is if there are significant injuries and the unlikely situation where chemistry is that bad that it effects it all that badly, which is unlikely.

This Lakers team is the best in quite a while, talent wise at the positions and, here's the key, experienced and that is what makes them possibly one of the best teams ever. Nash could make Kobe have close to his best season ever, maybe similar for Dwight and even PGasol. Dwight, especially with his rebounding and defense, makes it so much easier on Nash, Kobe and PGasol, actually all the other Lakers players, as they can play alot more loose on defense, taking chances if needed and getting out and running.

This Lakers team has a chance to have the best regular seasone ver and could even be the best performed team ever next season. To note that the coach is not great and that could hold them back a bit.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:47 am
Top 5-PG? I would rather have Rondo, Westbrook, Rose, Williams, Paul and Parker, while i consider players as Ty Lawson and Steph Curry (and probably 2-3 more) at the same level as Nash right now. He can't defend those type of PG's in the league right now and is very fortunate to have DH to clean it up. Kobe is as good as Wade to me (Wade didn't seem healthy to me last year), Kobe a better scorer, while Wade clearly is the better allrounder. World Peace isn't as good at all as we was just years ago, though he still can defend and put in some 3's...

I would be VERY surprised to see Lakers get 70+ victories. I would say 65 at highest.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:38 am
Nash gets more assists than them all and he was on a pretty terrible Phoenix team last season. That's true PG right there and he is the best shooter of all the PGs, with an amazing FG%. He makes other player around him better than perhaps any other PG and as I said, it will be very interesting to see how good the other three stars around him will be next season. I think they'll all improve because of Nash.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:07 am
migya wrote:You have a top 5 PG, the best SG still, a very good defending SF, a top 5 PF and the best Center there is. Only way you can say the Lakers won't likely be the #1 team at regular season's end is if there are significant injuries and the unlikely situation where chemistry is that bad that it effects it all that badly, which is unlikely.

This Lakers team is the best in quite a while, talent wise at the positions and, here's the key, experienced and that is what makes them possibly one of the best teams ever. Nash could make Kobe have close to his best season ever, maybe similar for Dwight and even PGasol. Dwight, especially with his rebounding and defense, makes it so much easier on Nash, Kobe and PGasol, actually all the other Lakers players, as they can play alot more loose on defense, taking chances if needed and getting out and running.

This Lakers team has a chance to have the best regular seasone ver and could even be the best performed team ever next season. To note that the coach is not great and that could hold them back a bit.



According to PER Steve Nash was the 8th best point guard last year in terms of production with his EWA at 9.3. Curry and D. Will was slightly ahead of Nash with Lou Williams slightly behind Nash. There is not a lot of competition at shooting guard, but Dwayne Wade and Manu Ginobli were significantly better while on the floor while Kobe was slightly better than Harden and a step ahead of Joe Johnson. So third best SG. Now for Pau Gasol he is the 12th best PF in the league while on the floor. In fact, Brandan Wright was higher than him. Pau Gasol is an aging "superstar" but he is no where near where he used to be. However, they do in fact have the best center. Metta World Peace was the 45th best SF last year and he is starting. In fact, our Richard Jefferson is slightly ahead of him.

Thunder vs. Lakers
PG: Wrestbrook (PER: 23) vs. Nash (PER: 20.29)
SG: Harden (PER: 21.13) vs. Bryant (PER: 21.95)
SF: Durant (PER: 26.26) vs. Artest (PER: 11.03)
PF: Ibaka (PER: 18.98) vs. Pau Gasol (PER: 20.51)
C: Perkins (PER: 8.69) vs. Howard (PER: 24.29)

Edge: Lakers by .01

However, there will be decline due to the ages of each player except for Howard. There is going to be a drop for Nash, Bryant, Artest, and Pau. It's unreasonable to think they will maintain prime form. This is the second best team in the conference.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:43 am
migya wrote:Nash gets more assists than them all and he was on a pretty terrible Phoenix team last season. That's true PG right there and he is the best shooter of all the PGs, with an amazing FG%. He makes other player around him better than perhaps any other PG and as I said, it will be very interesting to see how good the other three stars around him will be next season. I think they'll all improve because of Nash.


I think Rondo had higher APG last year. And it really doesn't matter whether your team is Boston or Phoenix, if you handle the ball as much as Nash you will get a lot of assists no matter what if you're a pass-first PG like Nash. I like the above mentioned 6 PGs better than Nash and I think it is hard to make a case for Nash being a top-5 PG. Rose, D Will and Paul is clearly better, but do you seriously consider him being better than Rondo or Westbrook? Those two are one level above of Nash right now, I think. Now, if you talk about pass-first PG's or doesn't consider Westbrook and Rose as PG's, it's another conversation.

And I pretty much agree with blackfoot. I think Thunder will get a better record than the Lakers due to their aging stars compared to the youth of the Thunders. It will be a 50/50 in playoffs, though.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:43 am
migya wrote:Nash gets more assists than them all and he was on a pretty terrible Phoenix team last season. That's true PG right there and he is the best shooter of all the PGs, with an amazing FG%. He makes other player around him better than perhaps any other PG and as I said, it will be very interesting to see how good the other three stars around him will be next season. I think they'll all improve because of Nash.


I think Rondo had higher APG last year. And it really doesn't matter whether your team is Boston or Phoenix, if you handle the ball as much as Nash you will get a lot of assists no matter what if you're a pass-first PG like Nash. I like the above mentioned 6 PGs better than Nash and I think it is hard to make a case for Nash being a top-5 PG. Rose, D Will and Paul is clearly better, but do you seriously consider him being better than Rondo or Westbrook? Those two are one level above of Nash right now, I think. Now, if you talk about pass-first PG's or doesn't consider Westbrook and Rose as PG's, it's another conversation.

And I pretty much agree with blackfoot. I think Thunder will get a better record than the Lakers due to their aging stars compared to the youth of the Thunders. It will be a 50/50 in playoffs, though.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:15 pm
People were saying that about San Antonio the last 2 or 3 years. Don't know the exact ages but I would assume that lakers are younger.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:04 pm
Thing about the Lakers is it's not a bunch of top scorers like Lebron, Wade, and Bosh were. Lakers players have elite talent at just about each position -- and a starting 5 of complimentary talent.

- Nash is an elite PG still and top 3 floor general and very unselfish, and can spread the floor with his shooting
- Kobe is arguably the top SG in the game and great 1on1 player
- Artest is a defensive specialist / enforcer every team needs
- Gasol is an allstar, finesse PF with an array of inside and midrange moves and a good passer
- Howard is the best C in the game by a wide margin, a 2 -time DPOY, and a beast who'll probly have a chip on his shoulder

That starting 5 compliments each other extremely well and the players will be hungry to win. Because of their age, their window is short. But for the next couple seasons....damn. I hope they have chemistry issues because it's the Lakers, but that team gonna be tough to beat.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:47 pm
rockyBeli wrote:Thing about the Lakers is it's not a bunch of top scorers like Lebron, Wade, and Bosh were. Lakers players have elite talent at just about each position -- and a starting 5 of complimentary talent.

- Nash is an elite PG still and top 3 floor general and very unselfish, and can spread the floor with his shooting
- Kobe is arguably the top SG in the game and great 1on1 player
- Artest is a defensive specialist / enforcer every team needs
- Gasol is an allstar, finesse PF with an array of inside and midrange moves and a good passer
- Howard is the best C in the game by a wide margin, a 2 -time DPOY, and a beast who'll probly have a chip on his shoulder

That starting 5 compliments each other extremely well and the players will be hungry to win. Because of their age, their window is short. But for the next couple seasons....damn. I hope they have chemistry issues because it's the Lakers, but that team gonna be tough to beat.


Is it opening night yet? Can't wait for this season to start!



You said it pretty well.

The thing with theis Lakers team is that they seem to all fit together. Nash is a near perfect PG for that situation (playing better defense would make him perfect). Fact that he looks to pass first, second and even third, is what's needed there and also the fact he shoots so well, at such a high percentage, just makes him so good. Kobe will probably score more, maybe even over thirty points next season, maybe even the season after. Nash and Dwight allow Kobe to focus more on scoring and score easier. Artest is a very good defender and that's close to all he needs to do. Besides Nash, the other starting four are very good defenders and right there that makes them elite as well. PGasol is still who very good and I think will be better with Dwight, as now he too can focus on scoring more and do so easier. Dwight just has to continue being and rebounding and defending monster, scoring on dunks and putbacks is all he needs offensively.

Don't like the Lakers, but truth is that team looks like one of the best alltime on paper at least.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:50 pm
8th ave wrote:People were saying that about San Antonio the last 2 or 3 years. Don't know the exact ages but I would assume that lakers are younger.



The comparison doesn't work because the Spurs have an elite bench. They get a lot of production from both units.


Looking at last year Lakers team they were probably the sixth best team in the western conference. Point differential is the best indicator of team strength and future success. They added Nash and Dwight. Dwight is better than Bynum, by a full one point on PER last year. And Steve Nash is better by four points on PER over Ramon. So, they are definitely better than sixth best, but I am not sure that pushes them over the Thunder. I am not convinced they are better than the Spurs in terms of standings next year. They definitely match up well and would beat them in the playoffs, but in terms of standings I am thinking

Thunder
Spurs
Lakers

With Lakers and Thunder meeting in the finals. Thunder probably beating us, Nuggets, or Grizzlies in the second round.

Definitely only best all time if you go back to 06 with all these names. Lots of mileage on everyone besides Dwight.
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