Any chance Biedrins could ever be effective again?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:24 am
Not even a discussion. Answer's no.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:16 am
Biedrins got his contract because of Don Nelson, Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson. Nellie's small ball had him playing with 4 other guards so his rebounding numbers (11.8) were inflated. Guys like Davis and Jax were able to drive into the paint and dish it off to Biedrins for easy buckets. AB's numbers took a big dip when they handed the keys to Monta, who was a shoot first, shoot second then pass type of player. When Monta got into the paint, instead of passing to a cutting Biedrins like Davis or Jackson, he would take a shot even if its over 4 players. After a while, Biedrins didn't even bother cutting to the hoop anymore
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:45 pm
BayAreaHoopz wrote:Biedrins got his contract because of Don Nelson, Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson. Nellie's small ball had him playing with 4 other guards so his rebounding numbers (11.8) were inflated. Guys like Davis and Jax were able to drive into the paint and dish it off to Biedrins for easy buckets. AB's numbers took a big dip when they handed the keys to Monta, who was a shoot first, shoot second then pass type of player. When Monta got into the paint, instead of passing to a cutting Biedrins like Davis or Jackson, he would take a shot even if its over 4 players. After a while, Biedrins didn't even bother cutting to the hoop anymore

And what's the excuse for why his defense has crashed into the ground?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:42 am
BayAreaHoopz wrote:Maybe a change of scenery could really help Biedrins and the Rockets don't have a center on their roster. They've expressed interest in him before. They drafted Jeremy Lamb so they could possibly move the expiring contract of Kevin Martin if they got a young player in return. Maybe someone like Jeremy Tyler. Biedrins and Tyler for Martin wouldn't be a bad move. The Warriors get $9M more off the book next Summer. For the Rockets, if Biedrins really still sucks, then they'll only be into him for another season. Having Kevin Martin off the bench would make this a very good team. He could be a James Harden type, instant offense 6th man. If they could sign Carl Landry, then this would be a deep team...



Personally, I don't want anything to do with Martin, but to get rid of AB, without letting go ANY of the young players, I'd do it, as Martin does have only one season left on his contract. Thing is though, Martin is on 12.94 million this coming season and that would put the team into luxury tax I'm pretty sure and prevent signing any backup PF right now as well. Big negative, but still, I'd do it, as we only get one more season of Martin instead of possibly two of AB. That would allow the team to really try to become championship caliber next offseason by signing or making a trade using a resigned Martin if needed, for a very good player that could be a 6th man. Definately worth going for if doing this trade could be done.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:01 pm
People seem to think that Beans was only effective because he was playing with BD. I have to be frank and say that this notion is false because based on what Im reading, Biedrins had his best year in 08-09 when BD had left for LA. So that right there proves that Biedrins did not need BD to be effective. So that means it's something else. I personally think that Biedrins improving is a possibility within realm. Every year all you hear is Biedrins is working hard in the offseason, he's gonna be better. This year you hear bad things about biedrins like tax invasion and nasty oral sex pics. Maybe that will shake things up.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:43 pm
Stairway Man wrote:People seem to think that Beans was only effective because he was playing with BD. I have to be frank and say that this notion is false because based on what Im reading, Biedrins had his best year in 08-09 when BD had left for LA. So that right there proves that Biedrins did not need BD to be effective. So that means it's something else. I personally think that Biedrins improving is a possibility within realm. Every year all you hear is Biedrins is working hard in the offseason, he's gonna be better. This year you hear bad things about biedrins like tax invasion and nasty oral sex pics. Maybe that will shake things up.

2008-'09 was the year after Biedrins inked his enormous deal. Because of that, he played a career-high 30.6 MPG.

In black and white terms, he still played in less games than any season since his rookie year, dropped 5% from the field, 7% from the line, and achieved his career-high in fouls-per-game (which is saying something).

In more abstract claims, we begin to disect why his rebounding improved. Here are the Warriors' top 5 rebounders from the season before:

1. Andris Biedrins, 9.8 RPG
2. Al Harrington, 5.4 RPG
3. Monta Ellis, 5.0 RPG
4. Baron Davis, 4.7 RPG
5. Matt Barnes, 4.4 RPG


I bolded the players that were gone by next season. Al Harrington was dealt for a 6'3" guard, Davis and Barnes were gone before the end of the summer, and Andris Biedrins was literally hauling down all the Warriors boards with Corey Maggette (SG/SF) being waterboarded into playing the starting power forward position.

Stats don't tell the whole story, but a combination of stats and recall paint the most realistic picture. Sure, Biedrins put up a couple extra points and rebounds - getting extended touches in the wake of the old team's first, fourth, and fifth options being gone. But his shooting numbers dropped sharply while his point average barely skirted up. That's a less efficient player. Team rebounders are diluted, the Warriors need to replace 14.5 rebounds that were lost via roster moves, yet Biedrins doesn't even snatch 2 extra rebounds per game? After getting a huge payday and being served more MPG than ever?

I see what you're saying. Yes, technically, an 11 and 11 year after inking his huge deal was his best season... But given what the team had lost, he should have provided a lot more. And with additional touches, not only did he shoot poorer, but his turnovers jumped by 0.7, and he fouled more people than ever before.

To me, Andris Biedrins' poor play has a direct and credible link to Baron Davis and, to a stronger degree, Don Nelson.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:04 pm
32 wrote:
Stairway Man wrote:People seem to think that Beans was only effective because he was playing with BD. I have to be frank and say that this notion is false because based on what Im reading, Biedrins had his best year in 08-09 when BD had left for LA. So that right there proves that Biedrins did not need BD to be effective. So that means it's something else. I personally think that Biedrins improving is a possibility within realm. Every year all you hear is Biedrins is working hard in the offseason, he's gonna be better. This year you hear bad things about biedrins like tax invasion and nasty oral sex pics. Maybe that will shake things up.

2008-'09 was the year after Biedrins inked his enormous deal. Because of that, he played a career-high 30.6 MPG.

In black and white terms, he still played in less games than any season since his rookie year, dropped 5% from the field, 7% from the line, and achieved his career-high in fouls-per-game (which is saying something).

In more abstract claims, we begin to disect why his rebounding improved. Here are the Warriors' top 5 rebounders from the season before:

1. Andris Biedrins, 9.8 RPG
2. Al Harrington, 5.4 RPG
3. Monta Ellis, 5.0 RPG
4. Baron Davis, 4.7 RPG
5. Matt Barnes, 4.4 RPG


I bolded the players that were gone by next season. Al Harrington was dealt for a 6'3" guard, Davis and Barnes were gone before the end of the summer, and Andris Biedrins was literally hauling down all the Warriors boards with Corey Maggette (SG/SF) being waterboarded into playing the starting power forward position.

Stats don't tell the whole story, but a combination of stats and recall paint the most realistic picture. Sure, Biedrins put up a couple extra points and rebounds - getting extended touches in the wake of the old team's first, fourth, and fifth options being gone. But his shooting numbers dropped sharply while his point average barely skirted up. That's a less efficient player. Team rebounders are diluted, the Warriors need to replace 14.5 rebounds that were lost via roster moves, yet Biedrins doesn't even snatch 2 extra rebounds per game? After getting a huge payday and being served more MPG than ever?

I see what you're saying. Yes, technically, an 11 and 11 year after inking his huge deal was his best season... But given what the team had lost, he should have provided a lot more. And with additional touches, not only did he shoot poorer, but his turnovers jumped by 0.7, and he fouled more people than ever before.

To me, Andris Biedrins' poor play has a direct and credible link to Baron Davis and, to a stronger degree, Don Nelson.


Biendrins was more effective and was better with Davis around, but he could still average a double double. To go from that to what he is now has nothing to do with who he is playing with now, but his attitude towards the game. You could see it watching him play. He doesn't have love for the game. he had a 20-20 game, that doesn't happen by accident. I think his problem is he got injured and when he got back on the court he was scared.
He thinks game too much. Also I think he lost his passion for the game.

With that said could he return to double double machine? Only if he wanted to and is willing to put in the work. Oh, and stop worrying about getting hurt or missing shots.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:25 pm
32 wrote:
Stairway Man wrote:
In black and white terms, he still played in less games than any season since his rookie year, dropped 5% from the field, 7% from the line, and achieved his career-high in fouls-per-game (which is saying something).

In more abstract claims, we begin to disect why his rebounding improved. Here are the Warriors' top 5 rebounders from the season before:

1. Andris Biedrins, 9.8 RPG
2. Al Harrington, 5.4 RPG
3. Monta Ellis, 5.0 RPG
4. Baron Davis, 4.7 RPG
5. Matt Barnes, 4.4 RPG


I bolded the players that were gone by next season. Al Harrington was dealt for a 6'3" guard, Davis and Barnes were gone before the end of the summer, and Andris Biedrins was literally hauling down all the Warriors boards with Corey Maggette (SG/SF) being waterboarded into playing the starting power forward position.

Stats don't tell the whole story, but a combination of stats and recall paint the most realistic picture. Sure, Biedrins put up a couple extra points and rebounds - getting extended touches in the wake of the old team's first, fourth, and fifth options being gone. But his shooting numbers dropped sharply while his point average barely skirted up. That's a less efficient player. Team rebounders are diluted, the Warriors need to replace 14.5 rebounds that were lost via roster moves, yet Biedrins doesn't even snatch 2 extra rebounds per game? After getting a huge payday and being served more MPG than ever?

I see what you're saying. Yes, technically, an 11 and 11 year after inking his huge deal was his best season... But given what the team had lost, he should have provided a lot more. And with additional touches, not only did he shoot poorer, but his turnovers jumped by 0.7, and he fouled more people than ever before.

To me, Andris Biedrins' poor play has a direct and credible link to Baron Davis and, to a stronger degree, Don Nelson.



Hmm. Very good analysis. But it seems like you had to explain yourself very thoroughly to explain why Biedrins had all those high stats. However, even if Biedrins could average just half of what he used to, that would still be an improvement. I think something is wrong with his psyche. I mean his free throw percentage went way down, so I don't think that had to do with any system. I think Biedrins slowed down and bulked up too much last year.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:59 am
Oh, I'm not arguing that Davis and/or Nelson are the only reasons Biedrins played better. I also believe Andris had substantially more motivation before his life was luxuriously insured by the Golden State franchise. I don't exactly buy the whole "he didn't compete cause the team was crappy" argument... But if that's true, he should have his contract voided on general principle.

There's no doubt my reasoning takes a lot of explanation, but as this is an abstract, uncertain topic, I unfortunately have little solid evidence to provide weight for my point, so I have to spell it out a bit more analytically. Hopefully, it's not too terribly long a book haha.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:22 am
I could be wrong but since Biedrin's packed on 15 pounds last year, it seems like he doesn't move as smoothly anymore. I think his game is just to be loose and fit. I think he is just enjoying his money too much. But still, I can't remember a player who played with as much lackluster effort as biedrins. Before his contract, he played his heart out and was thought of as the hardest worker, so that contract definitely played a role. If Biedrins would get himself together and be a solid bench player, the Warriors would be very strong in the front court.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:02 pm
Ringo wrote:I'm hoping that by having another 7' white dude, who is bigger and better than Biedrins, come in and push him around at training that it will somehow light a fire in Biedrins. It is easy to be comfortable when you have no competition.


Good point.. And Andris Biedrins must be fuming that they got a 7 foot white dude with the same initials. :shock: (if that's not a sign, I don't know what is)

I wish we could clone Bogut and Biedrins & get the best trait of both players.. For example
Bogut FT % .574
+
Biedrins FT % .506
=
108% career FT shooter

8)

Kind of lost respect for Biedrins when Don Nelson wanted to work with him in an offseason & teach him how to shoot the underarm & Biedrins said no.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:06 am
I've always wondered why he never developed. I remember that he was drafted more as a power forward than a center. I also remember some old scouting videos they were showing before the draft and in a game, AB was hitting free throw jumpers. He was also in the post making fade-a-ways and slick drop steps. Scouts that covered Europe compared him to Chris Bosh and from those footages, it was hard to argue.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:41 pm
They asked Biedrins about how he feels about the upcoming season and his response was about the same as last year, except he wasn't owning up to it as much, seemed more conservative. He said that he worked physically, had a good summer, and mostly like last year tried to clear his head and improve mentally. He has been saying that 3 years in a row, about improving mentally and moving forward.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:51 am
He is washed out. He is just saying things that are expected of him. He doesn't have anything to prove...I think he just wants his contract to expire so he can go and enjoy his pension. No fire in him, nothing...he's like a rug now.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:52 am
He can have a solid year in 2012-2013. But we simply just can't ignore him being so overpaid. If he got paid a bench player's salary, and performs well this year...everyone would agree that he had a bounce back year. But unless he somehow adds on 20 lbs of muscle, a jumpshot, +10 athletic points, and averages 20 and 20...he'll never live up to his salary. So no matter how solid he performs this year, he won't have a bounce back year...the expectations and let downs have been too much.
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