Importance of a superstar

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:17 pm
I understand... But it sounds like you're also advocating the idea that Gay's contract will demolish the team in 2-3 years. My question is: with owners saying money is not an object and they'll pay for talent regardless of luxury implications, how do you figure Gay at slightly more than Lee per season will "destroy" our lineup? Curry's extension will probably be a bargain since he's been injured his first 3 years, Bogut as well isn't going anywhere, and Thompson won't get an extension til after Gay is expired.

Why are you guys so hesitant about his contract? Is it a Cohan hangover? :wink:
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:50 pm
ShadsTheWarrior wrote:I agree with the anti rudy gay i feel like he'll destroy the tier level of all our players. let me explain myself all of our players arent at the elite level but they are all good in their own sense. Curry without monta hogging the ball could put up 20 points klay could put up 12-15 Lee is the usual 18 and 10 and maybe more and Bogut can score when need be. The only thing missing from this lineup is someone who can guard that opposing perimeter player and give him a hard time and Gay can do that but do we really wanna take his contract? and risk destroying this lineup in 2-3 years? I say we target teams in rebuilding mode and tease them with our number 7 pick. A team like portland who is shopping Batum. Hes the perfect player in this system in my opinion. He can guard 1-3 he can create his own shot he can knock down the 3pt shot at an elite rate and why wouldnt portland want 3 lottery picks in a star studded draft?

Order of importance:
1) Move up for MKG
2) or Trade for Batum
3) or Move down for Perry Jones and backup PG
4) Sign back up big ( reggie evans)
5) Make trade for iggy

I am not down with granger cus hes monta ellis but in a SFs body and part of my post is from Curry being my favorite player. I dont want him sharing the ball with Rudy and not unleashing his full potential i want the kid to figure things out and be a leader


I agree with you on Granger, don't like him that much, however Portland is NOT shopping Batum.
They are doing the exact opposite. They are telling everyone they will match any offer he gets, withing reason.
So, cross off Batum from that list.

As far as Gay is concerned. Without him (or an eliete SF) this team's cieling is SA... and that is pushing it. Having team ball will not get us past OKC, as just proven. If we want to win a championship I am convinced you need more then just someone who can gaurd the 3. You need a star who can gaurd the 3, and also score and put the team on the back and create for others. Gay can do that. Iggy, can probably do that... although I thnk Gay has more upside and will prbobably be better 3 years from now. Right now I am looking to see what gives us the best chance to win a championship, and I would think a player like Gay, inserted into our starting 5, would do that. Not right away, but we would be contenders at least. I also think the only way to stop KD right now is to get him in foul trouble, and you need a superstar who can force that... I think Gay has the athletism and quickness to get KD into foul trouble.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying he is our only option, just defending him as a very good option.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:19 pm
We are no where near San Antonio's level.

I'm not even thinking about championship. I'm expecting to enjoy a couple of years of some playoff births and that's if we're lucky. When the time comes and we show we can make the playoffs consistently, then I'll start speculating on what this team needs in order to be championship contenders. Until then my eyes are on the playoffs.

If we can't get someone like iggy, bring that Gay guy in. He'll definitely would not hurt our cause in getting into the playoffs.

If we keep RJ and AB until next year, I expect us to make a blockbuster trade sending something like 20 million dollars in expiring contract for a disgruntled or expiring superstar.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:05 pm
8th ave wrote:If we can't get someone like iggy, bring that Gay guy in.

LMAO ::lol:

Was that a homophobic dig at Rudy Gay, 8th? :wink:
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:23 pm
32 wrote:
8th ave wrote:If we can't get someone like iggy, bring that Gay guy in.

LMAO ::lol:

Was that a homophobic dig at Rudy Gay, 8th? :wink:


it just... came out that way. lol
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:22 pm
8th ave wrote:
32 wrote:
8th ave wrote:If we can't get someone like iggy, bring that Gay guy in.

LMAO ::lol:

Was that a homophobic dig at Rudy Gay, 8th? :wink:


it just... came out that way. lol

I figured haha just made me laugh :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:26 am
GSW Hoops Fan wrote:
migya wrote:Take the whole picture into context guys, the money Gay makes destroys the team within three years. There are many far better options.


Not sure I agree. It doesn't destroy the team within 3 years, it locks up our starting for two more years. At the end of this year, Curry becomes a restricted free agent. Depending on how he does this year will determine what he gets paid. If he doesn't have a solid bounce back year, he isn't going to make bank. Klay is on Rookie contract until 2015.... so he is locked up. Gay is locked up to 2015 too. D Lee is locked up to 2016. Bogut is locked up for 2 more years. He needs to show he can still play and be healthy before getting any contract extention.

So, for this year our salary would remain the same if you moved D. Wright, Jefferson and the #7 pick for Gay. No difference, we would still need to use mid level to sign anyone. We could still sign Rush because he is RFA. Year after that, instead of losing D. Wright off the books, his money is invested in Gay, so... the difference is 4.5 million. That is the year we would need to resing Curry. So, Luxury for sure.

The year after that though, you have Biedrins and Bogut coming off the books. You could resing Bogut for the same or less depending how he does, and the 9 million from Biedrins would help us get out of Luxury tax, depending on the contract Curry gets (if he even gets one).
So, all in all, it hampers our ability to aquire any new talent with anything other the the MLE, but locks up a starting 5 that can compete.
So, it destorys our salary cap, which we didn't have much of anyway, but it gives us a solid starting 5. I wouldn't expect to pay bench much more then MLE anyways, so.... not worried about it.

If you are worried about not having money for Curry, Bogut and Klay, well Beidrins and Bogut both expire after 2 years, can giving room to resign bogut and Curry. Gay's contract expires the same year Klay's rookie contract is over, so you can get a better deal for Gay, giving some room to resign Klay, if that is what you wanted. Lee's contract would be one year after that, which you could reneogiate to something more reasonable, assuming Lee is someone they still want around. Also, since these are expiring contracts at the time you are looking to resign your core guys, it should be hard to get rid of them.


All that, the way you put it, looks and sounds fantastic. The reality is quite different.

Firstly, you're right that trading RJ, DWright and #7 for Gay would mean about the same salary as not making that trade. Ofcourse, we upgrade alot in terms of talent and filling the SF need. Next season it'd be a far better situation with a great looking starting five and really looking like being a top 5 team in the West.

One year from now though is where the problems start. Curry would have to be resigned. Now, if he is again injured often and/or is just nothing more than an average like PG, either he is offered nothing more than about 7 million a year or not offered anything or traded away. With Gay and Lee making an absene amount of money in two years (Gay = 17.9 million, Lee = 13.9 million), the year after the offseason we are talking about here, 2013-14, with Curry up for resigning, if Curry was real good the previous season, 2012-13, the team still has rights to offer him a ton if needed, but it will send the salary of the team high over 65 million, over 70 million even. The owners have stated they will spend the money, it is no issue, but forget signing any type of good free agent, unless it is someone going on the cheap, seeing the team as contenders and I don't think the team will be any Miami Heat team.

The year after that, if AB is still here, which is unlikely anyway, that would be 9 million gone in salary, but over half of that gets eaten up by the increases in salary of both Gay and Lee over the next two years up to that point, so no getting out of luxury tax. Also, Bogut up for resigning, if his not resigned the offseason before. If the team is winning, Bogut will rightfully be seen as perhaps the biggest reason why, so he won't resign for less money that's for sure, probably more, like at least what Lee gets, which is slightly more on a yearly basis than Bogut's current contract has been. Again, the owners have said they'll pay, Bogut is a current player here and so can be resignec for more even if FO accepts. Again, well over salary cap with no great bench, but potentially still a decent one, "potentially". Not going to get any good free agents either, money is not there as over the salary cap still.

With the ownership stating that they'll spend alot of money if needed to make the roster a good one, it is not an issue, but unable to add on the bench through free agency. Have to hope that the current players and any others picked through drafting are good enough to be good backups for the starters.


GSW Hoops Fan wrote:
ShadsTheWarrior wrote:I agree with the anti rudy gay i feel like he'll destroy the tier level of all our players. let me explain myself all of our players arent at the elite level but they are all good in their own sense. Curry without monta hogging the ball could put up 20 points klay could put up 12-15 Lee is the usual 18 and 10 and maybe more and Bogut can score when need be. The only thing missing from this lineup is someone who can guard that opposing perimeter player and give him a hard time and Gay can do that but do we really wanna take his contract? and risk destroying this lineup in 2-3 years? I say we target teams in rebuilding mode and tease them with our number 7 pick. A team like portland who is shopping Batum. Hes the perfect player in this system in my opinion. He can guard 1-3 he can create his own shot he can knock down the 3pt shot at an elite rate and why wouldnt portland want 3 lottery picks in a star studded draft?

Order of importance:
1) Move up for MKG
2) or Trade for Batum
3) or Move down for Perry Jones and backup PG
4) Sign back up big ( reggie evans)
5) Make trade for iggy

I am not down with granger cus hes monta ellis but in a SFs body and part of my post is from Curry being my favorite player. I dont want him sharing the ball with Rudy and not unleashing his full potential i want the kid to figure things out and be a leader


I agree with you on Granger, don't like him that much, however Portland is NOT shopping Batum.
They are doing the exact opposite. They are telling everyone they will match any offer he gets, withing reason.
So, cross off Batum from that list.

As far as Gay is concerned. Without him (or an eliete SF) this team's cieling is SA... and that is pushing it. Having team ball will not get us past OKC, as just proven. If we want to win a championship I am convinced you need more then just someone who can gaurd the 3. You need a star who can gaurd the 3, and also score and put the team on the back and create for others. Gay can do that. Iggy, can probably do that... although I thnk Gay has more upside and will prbobably be better 3 years from now. Right now I am looking to see what gives us the best chance to win a championship, and I would think a player like Gay, inserted into our starting 5, would do that. Not right away, but we would be contenders at least. I also think the only way to stop KD right now is to get him in foul trouble, and you need a superstar who can force that... I think Gay has the athletism and quickness to get KD into foul trouble.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying he is our only option, just defending him as a very good option.



Again, I don't see Gay as a good defender, but I have only seen him play full games a few times each season. I don't see Gay as anywhere near as good as the likes of Durant and the elite. I see Gay as at best a top 20 player in the nba right now and that's probably being generous.

As for the comparison with Iguodala - Iggy looks like he has regressed a bit, especially scoring himself, but he has only two years older than Gay, 28 to 26. Gay wins only in Scoring, FT% and blocks, blocks not being much of a factor as Gay is not as good a defender as Iguodala. Iggy passes far better and more. He is a finisher as well as a distributor, Gay is a finisher, a pretty good one, but not a great one. Both would fit in pretty well at SF though, just Gay is a fair bit more expensive and Iguodala is expensive himself.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:42 am
8th ave wrote:We are no where near San Antonio's level.

I'm not even thinking about championship. I'm expecting to enjoy a couple of years of some playoff births and that's if we're lucky. When the time comes and we show we can make the playoffs consistently, then I'll start speculating on what this team needs in order to be championship contenders. Until then my eyes are on the playoffs.

If we can't get someone like iggy, bring that Gay guy in. He'll definitely would not hurt our cause in getting into the playoffs.

If we keep RJ and AB until next year, I expect us to make a blockbuster trade sending something like 20 million dollars in expiring contract for a disgruntled or expiring superstar.


Yea, even with Iguodala or Gay the team is not quite championship caliber.

I mean, if the team got Gay, compare that roster with the Grizz and it's no better, maybe slightly worse, but about the same and the Grizz were out in the 1st round, so not championship caliber, at best they are.

What can I say, I'm not wanting to get Gay. Never. :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:44 am
32 wrote::D

Plus, miggy, why are you pro-Iguodala if you believe Rudy Gay's money would destroy the team? They'll both make $15 million next year, why would one destroy the team and the other fit perfectly?

And, as Hoops Fan pointed out, his incremental increase won't occur til massive cash is coming off the books. Plus, Lacob has repeatedly said that money will not be a problem with this team. Rudy Gay's contract is very normal for a top player at the SF position. Again, he doesn't get as much glitter as other players in larger markets that are repeatedly covered more often, but if you've seen him play quasi-regularly on League Pass, he doesn't get outplayed at his spot very often. It's a real rarity. Had he spent his career on the Lakers, people would regard him as a top 5 SF.



Iguodala gets 14.7 million, Gay gets 16.5 million next season. Year after that it's Iguodala 15.9, Gay 17.9, that year being Iggy's player option that he'll surely take. Then Iguodala is out of contract while Gay is on his final year at 19.3 million! That's superstar salary, especially that last year for Gay. Personally I'd take one year less and a bit less money a year with Iguodala and he won't be worth that money again, I'd maybe offer him 10-11 million a year average for no more than four years, as he'll be into his thirties then.

Both players really are probably better to stay away from though OR maybe either one could be acquired and properly used in one year in a trade for a superstar. That'd be great use of salary and current players. That's just me though. I think ahead a bit and possibilities. Who knows, maybe Westbrook will not get along with Durant in one year and will want out, maybe gettable along with Ibaka for Lee and Gay or Curry and Gay. Maybe a resigned non-knucklehead Dwight and JRich for Gay and Bogut. Opportunities are there.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:46 am
GSW Hoops Fan wrote:
ShadsTheWarrior wrote:I agree with the anti rudy gay i feel like he'll destroy the tier level of all our players. let me explain myself all of our players arent at the elite level but they are all good in their own sense. Curry without monta hogging the ball could put up 20 points klay could put up 12-15 Lee is the usual 18 and 10 and maybe more and Bogut can score when need be. The only thing missing from this lineup is someone who can guard that opposing perimeter player and give him a hard time and Gay can do that but do we really wanna take his contract? and risk destroying this lineup in 2-3 years? I say we target teams in rebuilding mode and tease them with our number 7 pick. A team like portland who is shopping Batum. Hes the perfect player in this system in my opinion. He can guard 1-3 he can create his own shot he can knock down the 3pt shot at an elite rate and why wouldnt portland want 3 lottery picks in a star studded draft?

Order of importance:
1) Move up for MKG
2) or Trade for Batum
3) or Move down for Perry Jones and backup PG
4) Sign back up big ( reggie evans)
5) Make trade for iggy

I am not down with granger cus hes monta ellis but in a SFs body and part of my post is from Curry being my favorite player. I dont want him sharing the ball with Rudy and not unleashing his full potential i want the kid to figure things out and be a leader


I agree with you on Granger, don't like him that much, however Portland is NOT shopping Batum.
They are doing the exact opposite. They are telling everyone they will match any offer he gets, withing reason.
So, cross off Batum from that list.

As far as Gay is concerned. Without him (or an eliete SF) this team's cieling is SA... and that is pushing it. Having team ball will not get us past OKC, as just proven. If we want to win a championship I am convinced you need more then just someone who can gaurd the 3. You need a star who can gaurd the 3, and also score and put the team on the back and create for others. Gay can do that. Iggy, can probably do that... although I thnk Gay has more upside and will prbobably be better 3 years from now. Right now I am looking to see what gives us the best chance to win a championship, and I would think a player like Gay, inserted into our starting 5, would do that. Not right away, but we would be contenders at least. I also think the only way to stop KD right now is to get him in foul trouble, and you need a superstar who can force that... I think Gay has the athletism and quickness to get KD into foul trouble.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying he is our only option, just defending him as a very good option.



Granger is indeed not that good, nowhere like he was. He is comparable to Monta being pretty much a scorer and not much else. Gay and Iguodala are far better options now.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:25 am
Well, if your argument is that we can't obtain any other marquee free agent should we trade for Gay, I'd agree with you. But why are we worried about making a big free agent splash if we have all 5 starters locked up? And having a plus-rated starting 5 has always brought veterans backups on the cheap in the NBA. A combination of bargain veterans in tight with Bob Myers and rookies being scouted and endorsed by Larry Riley is good enough for me.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:35 am
It'd be a playoff team for a while, just no better than the current Grizz I think. You swap Lee and JSmith, now maybe you improve a little bit more. Alot comes down to how good Klay gets, because he might just be a middle of the pack starting SG, which doesn't amount to much, it actually makes him tradeable and looking for a replacement.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:49 am
True, regarding the importance of Klay Thompson.

Personally, I'd love to see the team throw it in gear and go for it like this. I'm totally ready to see what a core of Lee, Curry, Bogut, and Gay can do in this conference. I personally think Bogut is better than Gasol, Lee is comparable (=) to Randolph, and after that who on Memphis can touch Curry, Rush, and Thompson? Our core is WAY better than the current Grizzlies.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:25 pm
Memphis Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley said Friday that he has no plan to sign off on trading Rudy Gay this offseason, according to Ronald Tillery of the Memphis Commercial Appeal. He added that he isn't afraid to pay to keep his players.

"Our plan was always to protect the core. I've had the core for four years," Heisley said. "If we ever decide to do something it won't be because of salary. We're going to build a team around this core group. We understand Rudy's salary. We understood it when we gave it to him. We're not looking to cut salary. We're looking to try and win a championship."

Despite that statement, Heisley admitted teams have contacted them about Gay and acknowledged that no player on their roster is "untouchable." The Toronto Raptors, Golden State Warriors, Brooklyn Nets, Orlando Magic and Charlotte Bobcats are amongst the teams that have reportedly touched base with the Grizzlies about Gay.

There is also the matter of the hefty Luxury Tax that would be leveled if they are over the salary cap, an issue quite relevant to the Grizzlies, who will owe Gay and Zach Randolph more than $16 million apiece and Marc Gasol nearly $14 million next season. They likely will be right up against the cap without some roster maneuvers.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:50 pm
And Chris Mullin said Jason Richardson was untouchable the day before the draft.

If anything, I'm now MORE convinced that Memphis will trade Gay. Good to know we're in on it!
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