Importance of a superstar

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:20 pm
Today read that Memphis is looking to shed Rudy Gay, and Warriors are in the mix. I think Rudy Gay could be their Super Star. He is definate all-star caliber. He comes with a big price tag, but might be worth it.

If you could turn, our 7th pick, Jeffeson, Dorell Wright into Gay, I would do it. Gives Memphis the cap relief they are looking for, and a 7th pick in a deep draft. Heck, even throw in the 30th.

I just wouldn't put in any of our starters, not that Memphis wants to pick up those contracts anyways. We give up 14.2 million and take on 16.5. Then resing RFA Rush. Use 2nd round picks to add depth.... and we are solid. With Biedrins expiring, we could use that to resign Curry or Thompson later on, provided they prove worthy.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:15 pm
GSW Hoops Fan wrote:Today read that Memphis is looking to shed Rudy Gay, and Warriors are in the mix. I think Rudy Gay could be their Super Star. He is definate all-star caliber. He comes with a big price tag, but might be worth it.

If you could turn, our 7th pick, Jeffeson, Dorell Wright into Gay, I would do it. Gives Memphis the cap relief they are looking for, and a 7th pick in a deep draft. Heck, even throw in the 30th.

I just wouldn't put in any of our starters, not that Memphis wants to pick up those contracts anyways. We give up 14.2 million and take on 16.5. Then resing RFA Rush. Use 2nd round picks to add depth.... and we are solid. With Biedrins expiring, we could use that to resign Curry or Thompson later on, provided they prove worthy.

Holy sh*t yes. Gay has a better reality-to-potential ratio than anyone in Golden State, plays both sides well, can light it up when the moon is full, but can we sell them on just the 7th pick?

Their fans would hate it, but the only possible deal for the $15 million man would need to include a couple throw-ins that are at-least backup worthy while taking back filler that we likely won't use. Only possible deal (taking salaries into account:

GSW 2012 1st Round Pick (7th), C Andris Biedrins, SF Richard Jefferson, SAS 2012 1st Round Pick (30)

for

SF Rudy Gay, SG Quincy Pondexter, PG Jeremy Pargo


We'd be fooling ourselves to think we could acquire Gay without giving up both our 1st rounders; particularly if we're keeping all 4 of our starters. Memphis would immediately sell their fans on either Harrison Barnes or Perry Jones III, cause they'd need to make a splash at the SF slot; hell, if they pray hard enough and Beale is there, that's even better!

And, obviously, I'm already jackin it to the idea of this squad:

PG: Steph Curry / Charles Jenkins / Jeremy Pargo
SG : Klay Thompson / Brandon Rush / Quincy Pondexter
SF : Rudy Gay / Dorell Wright
PF : David Lee / Dominic McGuire
C : Andrew Bogut / Jeremy Tyler


Spend a 2nd rounder on a rebounding 4 in the second round and cut Pondexter and daaaamn, how can we NOT get to at least the 2nd round? Whose gonna stop us? The Nuggets? The Grizzlies? The Jazz?

With that 5?

I don't see the Lakers, the Clippers, OR the Mavericks doing it either. A simultaneous addition Gay, Bogut, and a healthy Curry can do that.
Last edited by 32 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:26 pm
Alex Kennedy @ HoopsWorld wrote:The Golden State Warriors, Toronto Raptors, Brooklyn Nets and Orlando Magic are among the teams who would attempt to trade for Gay, according to sources close to the situation.

Just to verify that with a quote. (Link to article)

And yeah, I 100% agree with you guys. Bringing in Gay would be incredible. I'd make that trade 32 proposed in a heartbeat. Though to make it even better, what if we then leveraged our two second round picks into a late first rounder? We could probably pick up someone like Royce White or Fab Melo around #25. That would be awesome; we'd be two deep at pretty much every position, with a fantastic starting 5 to boot.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:55 pm
Just for argument's sake... Let's say the Grizzlies nab Harrison Barnes at 7, Marquis Teague at 25, Fab Melo at 30. Their squad:

PG : Mike Conley / Marquis Teague
SG : Tony Allen / OJ Mayo
SF : Harrison Barnes / Richard Jefferson
PF : Zach Randolph / Darrell Arther / Mareese Speights
C : Mark Gasol / Andris Biedrins / Fab Melo

All things considered, it's not a bad place to go, post-Rudy. Gasol, Barnes, Mayo, Conley, Melo, Teague, Arther... It's young, but extremely talented. Plus, in 2014, ZBo, AB, and RJ will expire, giving them nearly $35 million in one fell swoop (making them major players in free agency, should they wanna lure a couple marquee stars to play next to Gasol, Barnes, and Mayo. It makes a lotta sense; gives them 2 years to tank (and get another top 10 talent) followed by a big play in free agency.

Their fans would have to be patient, but last I heard, Memphis isn't selling out a whole lot as is.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:15 am
Rudy Gay is a higher paid Monta! Stay away from him!

I do not want anything to do with Gay. He fits in alright o that Grizz team, but the success they've had the last few years has been more to do with MGasol and ZRandolph than Gay. Gay is quite good, but not worth that amout of money and not that great of a defender. I'd much rather get Iguodala who even with his high salary is paid less and is much more allround than Gay.

There are much better options. Gay will salary strap the team for a log time. He is allstar caliber, but nothing more and more of a offensive player than anything else. GWallace, Iguodala, JSmith, Turner or any other promising option, but not Gay.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:51 am
I think you're making a mistake about Gay's defense. He's a real good defender. He might not have many blocks or steals, but he will contest almost every shot and be near his man. He's also ok rebounder, and the biggest difference between him and Iggy (whom I really like as a player) is that Gay is a great shooter as well. He can slash, he can shoot, he can jump, and plays defense. What are we missing here? How can he be the same thing as Monta was?

Iggy is a bit better defender, and probably passer, but other than that, Gay is probably better all-around player, cause he can be deadly from any range...and he is a go to guy, and will take those buzzer beaters.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:34 am
I think if Memphis does trade Gay to us, for Jefferson+Beidrins (and picks), that STILL wouldn't be enough for them... they would also demand for Klay Thompson (as Mayo is a free agent). They are going to need 2 solid players in return (7th pick and Thompson) in order to give up Gay + absorb two terrible contracts for 2 seasons.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:26 am
Yeah, it'd be an extremely tough sell without dangling Klay Thompson in there, too. But remember: to Memphis, Rudy Gay (albeit, a talented asset) is a bad contract. Here, they get 2 separate deals, at $9M, that expire in 2014. Rudy Gay's deal alone will run up to over $19M before the summer of 2015, so they'd love to (if nothing else) shed that contract before it gets obnoxiously bad. They're a smaller market team and might make a move just to decrease the payroll, especially considering how well they did without Gay in the lineup.

And regarding the posts above, I'm with Guybrush.

Rudy Gay is far more talented, athletic, explosive, and younger than Andre Iguodala (even though I'd be stoked to have either of them). The price tag is ugly, but it's quite simply the ONLY reason Memphis is looking to move him. His game speaks for itself. Rudy Gay is an overall better player than anyone in Golden State; he's an über athletic wing with a corner jump shot that rebounds, plays suffocating on-ball defense, and dominates single coverage when his jumper falls cause he's such an enormous threat when he goes to the basket. The fact that he's 6'8" and grabs over 6 rebounds a game immediately debunks the Monta comparison; as does his nearly 1 BPG career average.

At 6'8", we are talking about a prototypical solution to a hole in our lineup. Rudy Gay is a go-to threat on offense who can play anyone 1-4 on the other side, and rebounds no matter which half of the court he's on.

If we could get him for the above proposed trade, we'd be crazy not to. You opened this thread, migya, stressing the importance of a star to Warriors fans. Make no mistake:

Rudy Gay is a star.

(and the world would damn sure know it a lot more of he got out of that vacuum of a market in Tennessee)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:24 am
We all have our opinion, but I thought Gay would turn into an easy above 20pt a game player and have all the allround skills and all he is to me is a player that can score and even that is nowhere near elite. He should have been an absolute star for the Grizz when ZRand was injured and didn't much but play at a pretty good level, no superstar performance. The guy shoots decently with a decent three point shot only and rebounds pretty good for a SF, but he scores under twenty a game, always has, so is no real star by any stretch.. For 12 million a year, he'd be pretty good, at the maniac amount he makes, got to be like a top 10-15 player at the very least.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:16 am
Gay is overpaid, we know that. But that is the only reason he is even in trade discussions.
Key for Memphis is getting back talent that fits their team while clearing up cap space.
According to the post, they want to resign Mayo, Spreights and Arthur, meaning that they want a well rounded team, and are willing to give up Gay to get it.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-grizzl ... e-rudy-gay
Several executives believe that Memphis could to trade Gay in a cost-cutting move since the team wants to re-sign restricted free agents O.J. Mayo, Marreese Speights and Darrell Arthur after already giving long-term deals to Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph and Mike Conley.



So, I would love to see a trade like this:
Gay for

Dorell, Jefferson, pick #1, Pick #30, 2016 1st rounder.

They don't want to take much in salary back. Gay is due 16.5 next season, and Dorell + Jeffeson comes to 14.2 next season, so they shed 2.3 million there. Plus Dorell expires this season, and Jefferson after next season. So the finicial flexibility they want is there. The next part is getting back they value. With Pick #1, and Pick #30, they could sell it to their fans that the value is there. Add a future 1st rounder, and I believe they would be sold. That 2016 is most likely going to be a late 1st rounder if Warriors end up getting Gay, they would be in the playoffs.

The advantage Gay has over Igudala, is that Gay's game is only going to get better. Gay is more athletic, better shooter and is still young. Warriors are missing an athletic wing, and he fills in nicely. Yes he is overpaid, but that is the price you pay to get better. Andris contract will expire eventually, so that will shed some cap space. If you could keep that starting 5 for years to come, they would be contenders.

I would do it... but not sure I would do it if we had to give up more.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:19 am
Gay isn't the player I'd want. He's an average defender which I don't mind, but they'll be adding another scorer/volume shooter to the mix with Curry, Thompson, Lee and Bogut. There just won't be enough ball to go around and unless Gay gives you 19+ points a game, then he's not really worth the money. Then you take in account his rebounding. He's average at best for a guy his size. Dorell Wright averages 2 less rebounds a game while playing nearly 8 minutes less a game. With the way the current roster is built, they need a rebounding/defensive small forward which Gay isn't.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:16 pm
BayAreaHoopz wrote:Gay isn't the player I'd want. He's an average defender which I don't mind, but they'll be adding another scorer/volume shooter to the mix with Curry, Thompson, Lee and Bogut. There just won't be enough ball to go around and unless Gay gives you 19+ points a game, then he's not really worth the money. Then you take in account his rebounding. He's average at best for a guy his size. Dorell Wright averages 2 less rebounds a game while playing nearly 8 minutes less a game. With the way the current roster is built, they need a rebounding/defensive small forward which Gay isn't.



That's it.

Gay is a good player, very good at times, but the guy is ot strog in areas of weakess for the team and is not worth aywhere near the moey he makes. There are far better options, it's just attaining those other options that's the thing right ow, but some of those other options are ripe for the pickings right now.

As for comparing Gay to Iguodala, as was done i a recent post above; They are both about the same age and Gay does nothing better than Iguodala except score ad that's only because Iggy has scored less the last two seasons to favour the team system in Philly. Iguodala is far more unselfish than Gay, who is a volume shooter and needs the ball in his hands alot to be effective. Iggy doesn't need to shoot much to be effective, playmaking well, defending well and doing everything well o the court.

If the FO got Gay, the team would be unable to improve anymore until contracts expire and that wouldn't be for at least another two or three years. The lineup as is with Gay added to the starting five, is no better than what Memphis has right now, a little worse actually because ZRand is better than Lee by a fair bit. not championship caliber, though could be at best. Gay is not the way to go.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:55 pm
The last time I check in on Gay's defense was when we still had Jamal Crawford. I read a column that had Jamal Crawford having the 2nd worst defensive rating in the NBA that year. Gay was dead last. So unless he vastly improved his defense over the last couple of years, I have not a single clue what you guys are talking about.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:46 pm
That's pretty much what I said, Gay is a scorer and pretty good rebounder, not much else.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:37 pm
Well, it depends on how you define defense.

If you're a John Hollinger guy and value statistics like defensive rating, you'd say Rudy Gay was a poor defender.

But since defensive ratings don't take into account the fact that some positions are harder to guard than others, some positions are more talented than others, and certain players (like Rudy Gay, before the arrival of Tony Allen) guard the other team's best player as a default, I take defensive ratings very lightly. If you buy into defensive ratings, you believe Tyrus Thomas was the second best defender in the NBA in 2007. 'Nuff said.

Every scouting report on Gay says that he has all the tools and can turn it on blast when he feels like playing defense, though he, admittedly, has been labeled sporadic in several outlets as far as defensive intensity. But when Rudy Gay puts the club on his car, it's a done deal.

You guys seriously don't remember watching him put Jackson through a 4-for-15 night with 4 turnovers when Jackson had the best season of his career?? Jackie bulldogged all the other 3's in the game, but Rudy straight-jacketed him in the first half and made him look like a bench warmer.

I'm just saying. Rudy Gay?? For a couple draft picks and two bad contracts?? It's a no-brainer for me, but as migs said, everyone's got their own opinion on this guy. I just can't believe there are so many people that think Gay is a bad player... That blows me away...
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