A SF from Philly

Discuss anything related to Golden State Warriors basketball here

Moderators: Mr. Crackerz, JREED, Guybrush, hobbes

User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 13528
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Golden State
Poster Credit: 52
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:35 am
TRON wrote:I still can't believe you are looking only today and disregard tomorrow. The worst mistake in the history of this franchise the last 25 or more years i a am a fun of was the Webber trade. He was the rookie of the year and we traded him next year. i never got over it. We finally had the PF we were dying for and we traded him. Most analyst say that if the previous draft where to happen again right now Klay would be top five eyes closed. They also say that if Klay was starting from day one he would be in the top 3 for rookie of the year. So what do you all propose? That the best thing a team can do when they're rookie goes well on his 1st year is to trade his ass for a proven veteran because at the time he plays better. And those idiots in Oklahoma are sitting there trying to develop Westbrook and Durant instead of trading them in their second year after they showed potential and got trade value in the first year. And they are not the only one making such foolish decisions. Bunch of idiot's, we will show them. We will trade all our rookies because developing talent takes time, and has risks, so the whole draft thing is unnecessary. It has to be stooped. Let's be like Europe where there are only free agents and the teams with no money develop young players and the rich teams wait until they are ready to take them.

To clarify: I'm not advocating that we trade Klay Thompson just for the sake of trading him.

But if another team wants to give us their #1 player for our #4 player, I would look at it. And there's something to be said for sustainability and consistency as opposed to potential and flashy production in limited games. I really, really like Klay Thompson. But I LOVE Andre Iguodala and the idea of having him alongside our big 3.

3 years ago, Stephen Curry, David Lee, Andrew Bogut, and Andre Iguodala were the best players in 4 different cities. I don't wanna trade Klay Thompson for garbage. Thing is, I don't think Iggy is garbage. Not by a long shot.
Image
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS DIE HARD
Image
Image
User avatar
Starting Lineup
Posts: 681
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:29 am
Poster Credit: 14
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:32 pm
I'm not seeing a player who's been inconsistent or is potential more than substance. Klay Thompson is a complete player who is the type of player who can be an allstar, because he has the 'it' factor plus skills. Maybe I'm overvaluing him, which is the "Warrior way" lol....like many have come before.... Anthony Morrow, Belinelli, hoping for B Wright, hoping for Dunleavy. I don't think I am though. He's not a 1-dimensional type spot up shooter like Morrow. He helps the the team even if he's not scoring and since the Monta trade, he was arguably the best rookie in the league.

Unless you're getting a star player back, kinda foolish to trade a ROY-type player. And especially if that player you're getting back has had fluctuating trade value that could go down again (considering the size of his contract). Fans talk about David Lee not being a #1 with that contract...well same can be said about Iggy. Iggy might even be a 4th or 5th option on offense. Another huge contract for a player who isn't a #1 is a bit much if it means trading a promising ...scratch that....already pretty good rookie. Iggy is better than Kyle Irving at this point but Cavs wouldn't do that.

For Iguadala especially... it's a 3fold thing...

a) His value can drop so alternative trade possibilities exist
b) Not trading for him is not that big of a risk because W's can still make playoffs with current lineup
c) He's not a star (very good player)

Not worth the risk imo. If you trade Klay (picked by Jerry West), it just sends the wrong message I think. If a player could be ROY, he doesn't deserve to get traded as a reward.
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 21379
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:50 am
Location: Perth
Poster Credit: 27
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:48 pm
Klay hasn't shown much on a team with other good players around him. He did alright with Lee and the others injured for a bit and then Lee himself got injured. I see Klay as a shooter and not much more right now, but he might show more next season.

I didn't say trade Klay for ayone either, including Iguodala, though I would straight up if it was possible salary wise, which it's not. The thing with Iggy right now and Philly, is that he is not worth as much as he used to and could be had for one of our two bad contracts, along with one or two backups or the #7 pick. I'd take that. I see keeping him in a year or two maybe a bit difficult, because there's bound to be some team or teams willing to offer him the type of money he's making now, whereas I wouldn't if he continues to perform like he did this season. I'd give him about 9-10 million a year and that might not keep him, though if he got back to how he was, I'd pay him what he gets now for another four years after his current contract finishes.

I'd much rather get GWallace, as I think he is a bit better defender, though slightly less allround than Iggy, and he would come a few million a year cheaper, but getting him would not be easy as he is a free agent.
Image



Image


migya make the ring fall on ya
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 13528
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Golden State
Poster Credit: 52
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:47 pm
rockyBeli wrote:I'm not seeing a player who's been inconsistent or is potential more than substance. Klay Thompson is a complete player who is the type of player who can be an allstar, because he has the 'it' factor plus skills. Maybe I'm overvaluing him, which is the "Warrior way" lol....like many have come before.... Anthony Morrow, Belinelli, hoping for B Wright, hoping for Dunleavy. I don't think I am though. He's not a 1-dimensional type spot up shooter like Morrow. He helps the the team even if he's not scoring and since the Monta trade, he was arguably the best rookie in the league.

Unless you're getting a star player back, kinda foolish to trade a ROY-type player. And especially if that player you're getting back has had fluctuating trade value that could go down again (considering the size of his contract). Fans talk about David Lee not being a #1 with that contract...well same can be said about Iggy. Iggy might even be a 4th or 5th option on offense. Another huge contract for a player who isn't a #1 is a bit much if it means trading a promising ...scratch that....already pretty good rookie. Iggy is better than Kyle Irving at this point but Cavs wouldn't do that.

For Iguadala especially... it's a 3fold thing...

a) His value can drop so alternative trade possibilities exist
b) Not trading for him is not that big of a risk because W's can still make playoffs with current lineup
c) He's not a star (very good player)

Not worth the risk imo. If you trade Klay (picked by Jerry West), it just sends the wrong message I think. If a player could be ROY, he doesn't deserve to get traded as a reward.

rockyBeli, your argument is extremely sound and I hope you're absolutely right because, in all likelihood, we're not going to get this trade. I really hope Thompson becomes the player he looked like in limited action this year. It just... sorta looked like teams figured out Klay a little more as he became more exposed and as the season winded down, Klay's percentages dropped. Seems like teams are playing his jumper much tighter and making him put the ball on the floor.

In the second half of April (which is what I consider the home stretch, 1 game after Lee was shut down) Thompson's percentages dipped to 44.7% from the field, 28.9% for three. Not only that, but his turnovers increased to 2.7 per game, although his assist-to-turnover rate did jump (microscopically) from 1.25 on the season to 1.37 in that span; showing his intelligence with the ball in his hands... But the dropped shooting percentages kinda spooked me.

That being said, I suppose I don't believe they will stay down in a 4th option role with a fully healthy team...

Oh well. It's likely that we won't trade Thompson and in the end, despite me being willing to deal him for an athletic, defensive wing with playmaking savy... At the end of the day, I'm happy either way. Thompson was a GREAT surprise this year.
Image
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS DIE HARD
Image
Image
User avatar
Starting Lineup
Posts: 681
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:29 am
Poster Credit: 14
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:09 am
Same here. Klay or Iggy is an asset to have on a team, so I can't be too concerned either way. Warriors would be an immediately better team with Iguadala, but with all things considered, I don't know if that's the best direction to go at the moment if it means trading KT. If they took Biedrins too? Hell ya gotta do that. KT's efficiency went down after the Lee injury, but still had some solid numbers while surrounded by bench players / rookies. Like you said , with having Curry Lee Bogut getting a lot of attention from the D, think his game will be even better.

Rookie
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:12 pm
Poster Credit: 2
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:12 pm
It will be interesting to see if Klay Thompson fall into the sophomore slump next season. Just hope the injuries are not going to be problematic for Curry and Bogut again.
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 13528
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Golden State
Poster Credit: 52
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:28 pm
fullmetalx wrote:It will be interesting to see if Klay Thompson fall into the sophomore slump next season. Just hope the injuries are not going to be problematic for Curry and Bogut again.

Shooters usually do. Curry did.
Image
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS DIE HARD
Image
Image
User avatar
Role Player
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:03 am
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Poster Credit: 3
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:54 pm
Don't you think that in an injuries depleted team when he was the first offensive threat it would be oblivious that our opponents would make it a top priority to stop him? Don't you think that it is only natural for them to succeed since Klay is only a rookie and not ready to face that kind of attention? Not to mention that this is a horrible year to be a rookie because they all been thrown in to the fire, in a highly loaded schedule, with very very very little time to practice and know their teams and the game in the NBA level. And Curry's slump had more to do with fact he played the whole sophomore year with ankle injuries than anything else.
My issue is not about Klay anyway is about future VS present. If i was a team like Maverics or Lakers or Oklahoma, establish and mishing but a player to get the ring ok. Then i wouldn't have time for developing rookies because my stars are not getting younger and i need help now. But we have a very young team. We should be looking for the future more than the present. Do i like Iggy? Off course. Do i want him on this team? I believe he is a perfect fit. Do i trade Klay for him? No i find another way. And i believe i can find another way for a player i could get for Monta. Why? Because i have a mixture of veterans and rookies to address any plans Phily will have in mind. AB + rookies comes in mind. A 26year old 7 footer + rookies for the future + cap release. What else could they want. My sophomores, Curry, Lee and Bogut are not on the table. For me.
Image

Mullin is the Ultimate Warrior
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 13528
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Golden State
Poster Credit: 52
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 5:30 pm
I understand, TRON... I just disagree that Iguodala's age is that big of an issue.
Image
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS DIE HARD
Image
Image
User avatar
Role Player
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:03 am
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Poster Credit: 3
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:38 pm
Granted, i may been wrong on that. Any way all opinions all respected and well presented.
Image

Mullin is the Ultimate Warrior
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 13528
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Golden State
Poster Credit: 52
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:19 pm
Iggy's dragged his team to a 1-1 tie in the Eastern Conference Semi-Finals.

I know it's the Leastern Conference and his scoring numbers still haven't shown up consistently, but I think his efficiency would skyrocket if he wasn't being made into a 1st or 2nd option on offense.
Image
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS DIE HARD
Image
Image
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 21379
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:50 am
Location: Perth
Poster Credit: 27
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 5:50 am
Iguodala still isn't doing much in terms of production, but he is coming up big at the end of games. I'm, still moving away from wanting him though.
Image



Image


migya make the ring fall on ya
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 13528
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Golden State
Poster Credit: 52
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:15 pm
Andre Iguodala continues to impress me during the playoffs.

While stats clearly don't illustrate the true amplification of his impact on the game, they do well to paint a picture of all the things he'd bring to the starting SF position. On the season, Iggy was:

12.4 PPG, 6.1 RPG, 5.5 APG
1.7 SPG, 0.5 BPG
1.8 T/OPG, 1.5 PFPG
45.4% from the field, 39.4% for three, 61.7% free throws
In 35.6 MPG

Even I, his board politician, have to shake my head in disgust at those shooting numbers... But remember, this isn't Baron or SJax chucking 22 points up on 38%; Iggy dropping 13 points shows that he knows he can't score contested and passes off a ton... Fixed briskly by being taken out of a #1 role and thriving as a #4... but I digress: to contrast, our starting 3 (DWright) provided us with the following:

10.3 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 1.5 APG
1.0 SPG, 0.4 BPG
0.8 T/OPG, 1.6 PFPG
42.2% from the field, 36% for three, 81.6% from the line
In 27.0 MPG

That's a total statistical upgrade in virtually every tangible field... And we're talking about a guy whom statistics don't do justice. It's a perfect fit, to get Iguodala in the mix and add another unselfish playmaker to the party. I'd do it for Klay, but even those who don't think you need to include him have me vexed. Could the #7 pick, the Udoh trade exception, Richard Jefferson, and Charles Jenkins be enough? Can we sell Philly on a player in the draft? I'd loveee to see this lineup actually happen. The Prodigy Backcourt comprised of Dell and Mychael's boys, running a squad of Iggy, Bogey, and General Lee??

God, it's almost too talented to be a real, tangible Warrior lineup... Certainly outranks We Believe!

Bogut >> Biedrins
Lee > Harrington
Iggy > JRich
Curry < Baron
Klay < Captain Jack

But considering our 2 current losing parts are STILL GETTING BETTER, I'll take that team 100 times out of 100.
Image
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS DIE HARD
Image
Image
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3621
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:05 am
Location: Oakland California
Poster Credit: 35
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 11:46 am
32 wrote:Andre Iguodala continues to impress me during the playoffs.

While stats clearly don't illustrate the true amplification of his impact on the game, they do well to paint a picture of all the things he'd bring to the starting SF position. On the season, Iggy was:

12.4 PPG, 6.1 RPG, 5.5 APG
1.7 SPG, 0.5 BPG
1.8 T/OPG, 1.5 PFPG
45.4% from the field, 39.4% for three, 61.7% free throws
In 35.6 MPG

Even I, his board politician, have to shake my head in disgust at those shooting numbers... But remember, this isn't Baron or SJax chucking 22 points up on 38%; Iggy dropping 13 points shows that he knows he can't score contested and passes off a ton... Fixed briskly by being taken out of a #1 role and thriving as a #4... but I digress: to contrast, our starting 3 (DWright) provided us with the following:

10.3 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 1.5 APG
1.0 SPG, 0.4 BPG
0.8 T/OPG, 1.6 PFPG
42.2% from the field, 36% for three, 81.6% from the line
In 27.0 MPG

That's a total statistical upgrade in virtually every tangible field... And we're talking about a guy whom statistics don't do justice. It's a perfect fit, to get Iguodala in the mix and add another unselfish playmaker to the party. I'd do it for Klay, but even those who don't think you need to include him have me vexed. Could the #7 pick, the Udoh trade exception, Richard Jefferson, and Charles Jenkins be enough? Can we sell Philly on a player in the draft? I'd loveee to see this lineup actually happen. The Prodigy Backcourt comprised of Dell and Mychael's boys, running a squad of Iggy, Bogey, and General Lee??

God, it's almost too talented to be a real, tangible Warrior lineup... Certainly outranks We Believe!

Bogut >> Biedrins
Lee > Harrington
Iggy > JRich
Curry < Baron
Klay < Captain Jack

But considering our 2 current losing parts are STILL GETTING BETTER, I'll take that team 100 times out of 100.
From "we believe", to "we belong", to "we gon beatcho ass!"

Image
Image
Image

Image
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 21379
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:50 am
Location: Perth
Poster Credit: 27
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:50 pm
I think Iguodala is o too much salary. He would fit in very well at SF, but just too much salary. IF he was o 10-11 millio a year for just another three years, he'd be good value, but I just see getting him as a bit of a risk, because the team would have so much salary invested in it's starting five and that's with Curry and Klay on their rookie contracts, meaing both would have to be paid much more soo, Curry within one year and Klay in three. o bench salary is basically what that means.

Getting Iguodala could work well, but there is somewhat big risk. I could see Curry becoming a shooter primarily, with Iggy being the playmaking and I think that takes away from Curry a fair bit, as he is a very good playmaker.

I do think that Iguodala's addition would be much more effective and less of a risk if the team had a PF that defended well, because Bogut and Iguodala couldn't do it all themselves, ot with the liability Curry, Klay and Lee are defensively. I do think JSmith in place of Lee (just an example but not going to happen) would make the team far better, as you'd have three players then that would play both ends well, with the other two having very good outside shooting ability that would put pressure on the opposition defense, making up for those two defensive lack a fair bit more.
Image



Image


migya make the ring fall on ya
PreviousNext

Return to Warriors Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests

cron