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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:54 pm
I can't believe i have to write it for the 3rd time in a different way. The one has a 14 year carrier ahead of him and Iggy has 3-4. Doesn't that count? Are we only interested in building a win now team for the next 2-3 years or are we building a strong young team to compete for 12 years? And why do i HAVE to trade Klay to get Iggy there is no other way? Trading rookies is dangerous. You have to be really sure it want backfire. If Klay turns out to be a top 5 SG after 2-3 years what will your opinion be for this trade? Are we so sure that Klay will not reach that kind of quality? We already comparing numbers with a 8-9 years veteran. Of course he is better at this point. So what? If Klay can even get close to him at day one why can't i expect him to be a lot better than Iggy?
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:33 pm
Guybrush wrote:See rockyBeli? It's much nicer, AND easier if I we can look at those videos without having to open another tab and go to youtube. :mrgreen:

Just fixed it so it could be seen from here.


lol much better.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:39 pm
TRON wrote:I can't believe i have to write it for the 3rd time in a different way. The one has a 14 year carrier ahead of him and Iggy has 3-4. Doesn't that count? Are we only interested in building a win now team for the next 2-3 years or are we building a strong young team to compete for 12 years? And why do i HAVE to trade Klay to get Iggy there is no other way? Trading rookies is dangerous. You have to be really sure it want backfire. If Klay turns out to be a top 5 SG after 2-3 years what will your opinion be for this trade? Are we so sure that Klay will not reach that kind of quality? We already comparing numbers with a 8-9 years veteran. Of course he is better at this point. So what? If Klay can even get close to him at day one why can't i expect him to be a lot better than Iggy?


Counts a lot. This is a deal I'd do if it'd make the Warriors contenders, but it wouldn't. Subtracting Klay and adding Iggy leaves you a hole at SG, so not a whole lot gained. Just isn't worth the risk considering the many trade possibilities that could land Iggy without giving up those core 4 players. Also it's not a make or break type of thing. Without Iggy, Warriors are still going to make the playoffs imo. And just as a team morale type of thing....kid could've easily been Rookie of the Year -- so we reward that by trading his azz? lol
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:48 pm
I love this. Beautiful, passionate debate!

#1, Iggy's ancient? Really? He's 27 years old, a product of the 2004 draft and you think he only has 3-4 more years left? I dunno if I buy that; Wade, LeBron, and Carmelo were actually drafted the year before and I wouldn't exactly say their careers are almost over. I suppose we disagree on our assessments of what Iggy has left in his tank.

#2, If you can draw me a picture of how we can get Andre Iguodala without surrendering Andrew Bogut, David Lee, Stephen Curry, or even Klay Thompson, than I'll nominate you for the next open GM position because I can honestly see no other combination of players, picks, and cash that the Warriors can parlay to the Sixers to get their franchise player. At that point, Philly is making a bad deal and they know it. Who else do we have that other teams want besides those 4 guys??

Back in 2006, Chris Mullin buckled on a trade involving Ike Diogu for Ron Artest. I'm not saying Thompson is a bust like Diogu, but I will say that he averaged 12 points and when he became a #1 option after Lee was shut down, his percentages across the board dropped sharply. Iggy is a poor man's Scottie Pippen. Honestly, I think Klay is a bigger Rip Hamilton. We'll see how far he can get with that skill set, but speaking purely fron a 4th option standpoint, I'm always in favor of trading potential for a proven commodity. Klay Thompson is a really nice piece; I don't see him becoming as good as Andre Iguodala when his head is on straight. I realize Iggy had a terrible year scoring the ball last season, but his career numbers attest to his level of game.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:11 am
TRON wrote:I can't believe i have to write it for the 3rd time in a different way. The one has a 14 year carrier ahead of him and Iggy has 3-4. Doesn't that count? Are we only interested in building a win now team for the next 2-3 years or are we building a strong young team to compete for 12 years? And why do i HAVE to trade Klay to get Iggy there is no other way? Trading rookies is dangerous. You have to be really sure it want backfire. If Klay turns out to be a top 5 SG after 2-3 years what will your opinion be for this trade? Are we so sure that Klay will not reach that kind of quality? We already comparing numbers with a 8-9 years veteran. Of course he is better at this point. So what? If Klay can even get close to him at day one why can't i expect him to be a lot better than Iggy?


First, as has been recently stated, Iguodala is only 27 years old, still young and with his experience andproven performance, his in his prime. Also, and VERY important, the team will not compete for championships with the current group of players in six years or more because Bogut himself is 27 and Lee is 29 years old, not old but not that young themselves. I see most players regressing when they reach 33 years of age, the real good players (usually superstar types) at about 35, so Lee will not be as good as he is now in four years. What that means is that rookies now will not be at full maturity at four years, as is the usual with most players. That means that Klay is nice right now and IF he does get alot better (I find unlikely that he will be more than a 15-16 points a game player), it likely won't be for at least another four or so years and at that time the team will have to find a replacement for Lee at PF, which is not easy.

I didn't originally say that I wanted to trade Klay for Iggy, but if I could straight up, I'd take it because Iggy gives much more in most areas than Klay. The biggest things right now with Iguodala is his high salary contract (though it ends in two seasons) and the fact that this season he did quite a bit less than he has in most seasons in his career. That seeming regression is pretty big to me and that is why I'm now thinking that Iggy is not a guy to target, but he would fit in real well at SF next to the other four starters currently here, providing the allround play and defense that is so needed, not having to score a whole lot like he has before to be very effective. I think Philly would trade Iguodala this offseason for something like RJ or AB and Rush or Jenkins or Tyler. I think they have a logjam at SG/SF as such, with Turner and Young there, younger than Iguodala. That means we'd get Iguodala to fill the starting SF spot and the lineup would thus be:

PG - Curry
SG - Klay
SF - Iguodala
PF - Lee
C - Bogut

Add in the backups. Not a bad team, maybe not championship caliber to some, but to me is.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:12 am
I'm not as well for trading Klay, but, if we could make this team better by doing so, we should be in idiots to at last not look into it. Indeed, swapping Klay for Iggy would leave us a bit of a gap in starting 5, because we would then have a good starting SF, but we wouldn't have Thompson at the SG. But, the biggest thing here is this question - would you rather have Thompson at SG and Wright/Jefferson at SF, or would you have Rush at SG and Iggy at SF?

We could try to deal Jefferson or Wright (maybe even Biedrins, if there's a way to make salaries work) and open up some cap space for more than just Iggy perhaps.

Of course, I'm not saying that I want to see Klay leave, he might turn out to be a special player, but so far, he was a pure shooter and scored a lot in the end, but he played on a team that started 4 rookies at the time. Why should we miss on the sure thing, just so we could evaluate Klay a bit more?

Anyway, I'd send them Lee rather than Klay, but I'm sure they wouldn't go for it, cause they already have one huge contract locked at PF position with Elton Brand.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:18 am
And, if we could trade Lee, we could go for Gerald Wallace in FA, cause as I see it, he is more comfortable now as a PF than as a SF.

Anyway, might be the best option to try to pack something with all of those picks we have. But, if we could get Barnes, or somehow MKG, we wouldn't be in a need for a trade. I would then look for an option to deal those huge contracts of Jefferson and Biedrins, and clear up that SF position that would be quite jammed with Barnes (if we draft him or other SF), McGuire (though he might be better as a PF cause he can's score from outside), Jefferson and Wright. Someone would definitely have to go. And none of them is a good starting option. Jefferson is regressing and injuries rendered his abilities, Wright had that one year, last year he regressed as well, and McGuire is a twiner in my eyes.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:20 am
To get Iguodala, I'd trade Klay rather than Lee. Good bigs are harder to get than good guards, the warriors franchise has known that and had issues with that for a LONG time. Klay can be replaced quite easily, even in the draft picking late in the 1st round.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:26 am
Guys, don't get me wrong, I really like Lee, but I think he is overrated a bit, at least among us Warriors fans. The guy will get his numbers, but he usually gets those numbers when we are blown out, and he stays in the game for 40+ minutes. And when we play weaker teams. When it's a tough match against strong opponents he can be shot down easily, and then he forces a lot and his shooting percentage goes down, something like 4/15...in the last part when we start trailing by a lot, and they sit their starters, then he fix that a bit, and it looks better than it is in reality.

At least that's how I saw it quite a few times.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:44 am
I think Lee is not as good as most Warriors fans think either, but he is a good big and they are harder to get. That's why I think he should be traded as soon as possible, like this offseason, because his numbers are real good, but he actually isn't as good as those numbers. To be honest, yea the team needa a starting SF, but I'd probably trade Lee and the #7 pick for a player like JSmith of Atlanta or Aldridge of Portland. Those two can be more than their numbers show and they both have been on teams that have been to the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:59 am
Well, yeah, but Josh Smith is playing great and I reckon his value is much higher that Lee's...even though Lee put up some good numbers. And I think other teams' GMs, scouts, etc know that Lee isn't good as his numbers make him look.

Josh Smith is playing great basketball, he is doing it all, defense, scoring, rebounding (like a beast), blocks, steals, even assists. You can't get that for cheap. Actually I can't see how we could get him if we don't offer them Curry...and then it would still be up to debate if they would go for it.

But, if Blazers are really going into rebuilding mode, and Aldridge isn't their center piece, then we could look into that option, I would be all for it.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:05 am
David Lee is not a top 5 power forward, but don't get it twisted: he's top 10 for sure.

His numbers are far from hollow. When we dished Troy Murphy, his rebounding numbers went straight into the ground. Lee is not the same game. He's averaged 10 RPG and 17 PPG on both coasts of the country. Dude is for real. I think his plethora of offensive skills makes him comparable to Josh Smith, though I'll readily admit he's not as good as guys like PGasol, ZBo, or Al Jefferson.

That said, he's the best PF the Warriors have had since Webber.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:16 am
Lee is a keeper unless he just doesn't fit in any more or the FO can find someone better one way or the other.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:30 am
I still can't believe you are looking only today and disregard tomorrow. The worst mistake in the history of this franchise the last 25 or more years i a am a fun of was the Webber trade. He was the rookie of the year and we traded him next year. i never got over it. We finally had the PF we were dying for and we traded him. Most analyst say that if the previous draft where to happen again right now Klay would be top five eyes closed. They also say that if Klay was starting from day one he would be in the top 3 for rookie of the year. So what do you all propose? That the best thing a team can do when they're rookie goes well on his 1st year is to trade his ass for a proven veteran because at the time he plays better. And those idiots in Oklahoma are sitting there trying to develop Westbrook and Durant instead of trading them in their second year after they showed potential and got trade value in the first year. And they are not the only one making such foolish decisions. Bunch of idiot's, we will show them. We will trade all our rookies because developing talent takes time, and has risks, so the whole draft thing is unnecessary. It has to be stooped. Let's be like Europe where there are only free agents and the teams with no money develop young players and the rich teams wait until they are ready to take them.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:16 am
W's should keep the core 4 together.
why?

1. Core 4 = Playoffs
2. Curry and Klay still have room for growth, on rookie contracts, potential, and already are good players
3. Loyalty. They need to reward players who play their azzes off and want to be here.
4. Klay = ROY (more or less ha)
5. These players compliment eachother

I'm all for getting Iggy, but this dude is making a lot of money (http://hoopshype.com/salaries/philadelphia.htm) and he's got Evan Turner and a newly signed T. Young around him. 76ers been trying to get rid of him for a while, and they may be sick of being 1st or 2nd round exits and want to go in a new direction. Iggy's trade value has been up and down, his contract isn't getting any cheaper, and with the younger Sixer SF's, who knows what happens. That's why I think they keep their core 4 together and who knows maybe a #1 pick combined with Iguadala's trade value coming down, something becomes of it. Just think there's better trade possibilities to make the team better than trading one of your core players, especially when it might not even be needed to get a good player.

Idk maybe I gotta wait a week... Curry Iggy Lee Bogut...lotta talent there. Then again so is Curry Klay #1 Lee Bogut. Either way, nice for the team to have some OPTIONS again. undersized prima donna Monta Ellis still on the team with undersized Udoh starting C? yeesh
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