Rush vs Nate: Early Offseason Debate

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Who would you rather retain after the season?

Poll ended at Thu May 31, 2012 2:20 pm

Brandon Rush
6
46%
Nate Robinson
2
15%
Both
5
38%
Neither
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 13

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:42 pm
TRON wrote:For the same reason we gave him that contract. If he gets back to that kind of playing he is a pretty good center. And young. I want even be surprised if he gets traded and start playing well. Plus there are some contenders willing to pay him simply because they don't have a true center in their roster. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in Dallas as a trade centrepiece for Odom.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:37 pm
JREED wrote:
migya wrote:Nateis better than Jenkins, but how much will that little one ask for? We just can't afford any more than 3 million for him, I reckon no more than 2 million actually. He's good, but how much will he play for us next season if the roster is fully healthy.

I was in favor of Nate over Rush before, but I agree that Nate is probably going to cost too much in comparison - Rush may cost more but when Curry is healthy Nate is far less important whereas I believe Rush could eventually start or at least consume a lot of PT. I'd give Jenkins a shot at backup PG.



Yea, with Curry healthy Nate doesn't play as much, unless he can play some SG, like he has in his career in spurts. He is small, but causes fits with his energy and scoring bursts.

Then again, if we get a starting SF, it's the same thing with Rush.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:53 pm
Wow, reading this makes me think that W's are interested in bringing back Rush:

http://www.csnbayarea.com/basketball-golden-state-warriors/warriors-talk/Jerry-West-works-with-Brandon-Rush?blockID=692094&feedID=2799

It’s not every day you get 10 minutes of individual instruction from Jerry West, one of the greatest players to ever play the game.
But Warriors forward Brandon Rush was the lucky player on the receiving end of that expertise after the team’s Wednesday morning shootaround.

“That was definitely a big thing to hear from him,” said Rush, who is averaging 9.2 points and 3.6 rebounds per game this year. “He gave me a few pointers on what I need to work on and offered to work me out during the summertime.”

West is a Warriors minority owner and once in a while will pop into a practice. That’s what West did, imparting specific wisdom to Rush.

“Using your body well, how to draw fouls, how to create space,” responded Rush, when asked what West told him. “Just a quick tutorial on how to do those things.”




Read more: Jerry West works with Brandon Rush
Tune to SportsNet Central at 6, 10:30 and midnight on Comcast SportsNet Bay Area for more on this story
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:55 pm
Rush just better not overprice himself. Then again, I think we can replace Nate easier than Rush, but if we draft a good SF, then McGuire can be the backup and Rush let go. That's probably what will happen and would smartest in that case.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:04 pm
GSW Hoops Fan wrote:Wow, reading this makes me think that W's are interested in bringing back Rush:

http://www.csnbayarea.com/basketball-golden-state-warriors/warriors-talk/Jerry-West-works-with-Brandon-Rush?blockID=692094&feedID=2799

It’s not every day you get 10 minutes of individual instruction from Jerry West, one of the greatest players to ever play the game.
But Warriors forward Brandon Rush was the lucky player on the receiving end of that expertise after the team’s Wednesday morning shootaround.

“That was definitely a big thing to hear from him,” said Rush, who is averaging 9.2 points and 3.6 rebounds per game this year. “He gave me a few pointers on what I need to work on and offered to work me out during the summertime.”

West is a Warriors minority owner and once in a while will pop into a practice. That’s what West did, imparting specific wisdom to Rush.

“Using your body well, how to draw fouls, how to create space,” responded Rush, when asked what West told him. “Just a quick tutorial on how to do those things.”




Read more: Jerry West works with Brandon Rush
Tune to SportsNet Central at 6, 10:30 and midnight on Comcast SportsNet Bay Area for more on this story

It would be a MAJOR statement.

If the Warriors resign Rush and somehow acquire a decent, blue collar backup big, it will change the culture from the penny-pinching, salary sympathetic Cohan Warriors (who, like the A's, practically employ their hardcore fan base into being salary savvy stat-crunchers) and instead command a different message: "If you have talent and you show that you will work hard to be valuable here, you will get paid. No questions asked."

Look at their first big purchase; giving the okay to sign-and-trade David Lee. Lee is a splitting point to the fans due to his salary. No one can honestly claim that Lee is a bad piece to have, but those who needle on his paycheck have begun to chirp like baby birds for Lee is become a plus-defensive player (because he's being paid like a star when the honest truth is, if David Lee wasn't an offensive catalyst, he wouldn't have a job; his major contributions on the floor show up far more often on the offensive end, so he is thus being needled on for his average to slow-footed defense).

But what did Lacob see that Cohan wouldn't have looked for?

He saw a vocal leader that plays his ass off, injured, hobbled, sick, or tired, to the point of dragging his dead body up and down the floor, never walking like a "superstar", never bitching about the high levels of contact that he's taking inside (not like KG or Pau Gasol or any other "star post player" would). A guy that gives you between 8 to 15 rebounds like clockwork, in an era where Golden State's former starting centers (Andris Biedrins and Adonal Foyle) were averaging 6 to 7 a game. He saw a bulldog that hits the ground, wrestles for loose balls, and bodies centers without BITCHING like every other 6'9" guy averaging over 15 points that doesn't wanna play center (lookin at you, A'Mare, Bosh, Lamar, ZBo, etc). And he saw this guy doing it with nightly averages of 19 and 10 on 50% shooting.

And while all the fans were scaring themselves into fits trying to comprehend how their team was gonna pay $13 million per for this guy, Joe Lacob went out and got Andrew Bogut for big money. He committed the team to Stephen Curry knowing that a fat extension is coming down the pipe. He plucked Nate Robinson (a high value, class A free agent) off the employment line midseason (hint: when was the last time the Warriors signed a FA the level of Nate DURING the season??). He took Richard Jefferson on because the team needed veteran help and he would rather pay through an extra year than contaminate this locker room with Stephen Jackson. For God's sake: He gave Kwame Brown $7 million!!!

And he has said, time and time again, that money is not an issue here. They'll spend what they need to build a winner. "We don't care if we have to pay a little luxury tax", so be it if it means a contender.

And he got boo'd on Chris Mullin night.

If they resign Brandon Rush. And take on a high draft pick for $2 or $3 million. And bring back Dominic McGuire on a 3-year deal for less than $10 million,, that is a

HUGE STATEMENT.
And first and foremost, it's a big middle finger at every one of you anti-fans who boo'd him.

And secondly, it's a statement that this team is going straight to the playoffs next year.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:30 pm
32 wrote:... it will change the culture from the penny-pinching, salary sympathetic Cohan Warriors (who, like the A's, practically employ their hardcore fan base into being salary savvy stat-crunchers) and instead command a different message: "If you have talent and you show that you will work hard to be valuable here, you will get paid. No questions asked."

Look at their first big purchase; giving the okay to sign-and-trade David Lee. Lee is a splitting point to the fans due to his salary. No one can honestly claim that Lee is a bad piece to have, but those who needle on his paycheck have begun to chirp like baby birds for Lee is become a plus-defensive player (because he's being paid like a star when the honest truth is, if David Lee wasn't an offensive catalyst, he wouldn't have a job; his major contributions on the floor show up far more often on the offensive end, so he is thus being needled on for his average to slow-footed defense).

But what did Lacob see that Cohan wouldn't have looked for?

He saw a vocal leader that plays his ass off, injured, hobbled, sick, or tired, to the point of dragging his dead body up and down the floor, never walking like a "superstar", never bitching about the high levels of contact that he's taking inside (not like KG or Pau Gasol or any other "star post player" would). A guy that gives you between 8 to 15 rebounds like clockwork, in an era where Golden State's former starting centers (Andris Biedrins and Adonal Foyle) were averaging 6 to 7 a game. He saw a bulldog that hits the ground, wrestles for loose balls, and bodies centers without BITCHING like every other 6'9" guy averaging over 15 points that doesn't wanna play center (lookin at you, A'Mare, Bosh, Lamar, ZBo, etc). And he saw this guy doing it with nightly averages of 19 and 10 on 50% shooting.

And while all the fans were scaring themselves into fits trying to comprehend how their team was gonna pay $13 million per for this guy, Joe Lacob went out and got Andrew Bogut for big money. He committed the team to Stephen Curry knowing that a fat extension is coming down the pipe. He plucked Nate Robinson (a high value, class A free agent) off the employment line midseason (hint: when was the last time the Warriors signed a FA the level of Nate DURING the season??). He took Richard Jefferson on because the team needed veteran help and he would rather pay through an extra year than contaminate this locker room with Stephen Jackson. For God's sake: He gave Kwame Brown $7 million!!!

And he has said, time and time again, that money is not an issue here. They'll spend what they need to build a winner. "We don't care if we have to pay a little luxury tax", so be it if it means a contender.


Man you said it. That "numbers-only" mentality has definitely spilled over to the fans over the years. Too many W fans look at the contract first like it's the one and only barometer for determining how valuable the player is to the team. Contract should obviously have a good amount of influence, but not to the point where it blurs your perception of the actual talent of the player, his value to the team, and what the alternative or alternative scenario to that player would look like. Especially for GSW, when having or trading for cap room has traditionally guaranteed a whole lotta nothin and uncertainty - whether it's hoping that Brandan Wright turns into Chris Bosh, or hoping the extra cap space will actually convince a star to sign as a FA for GS. If everyone made the same amount in the NBA, opinions about certain players and what they really bring to the team would change fast.

I'm not saying go out and spend for Troy Murphy, Dunleavy, Monta Ellis, Biedrins, and Foyle. Those were all STUPID moves. They weren't paying for the player they had, they were paying for potential and for flawed players. I'll take a proven David Lee in his prime giving us 20 and 10 and then some for $13mil (while KG is making $24mil / yr). I'll take Andrew Bogut a top 5 center former all-nba 3rd team in his prime, for his contract. It's a lot more acceptable to accept a 'slightly' overpaid contract for proven players in their prime, then for someone who will only achieve good value by meeting their may / may not potential. I don't know if this coincides with you original point or not, but these are just my observations of some flawed thinking behind building a team when Warrior fans are always looking for that unbelievable "great bargain" player who just doesn't come around often enough. And even when we do find one (D Wright last year), it's not always what it seems or the difference-making isn't all that great.

As far as the Nate or Rush? I'll take Rush. Nate was good in spurts this year, providing energy and veteran presence among the rookies. I'm thinking that was good this year, but will be unnecessary next year. His erratic play may become a negative next year. Spend that money elsewhere, Jenkins is decent enough, plus it can be addressed in the draft or FA. Another debate is between Rush and D Wright. Both provide perimeter shooting but I'll take Rush's defense and athleticism over Wright.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:05 pm
We must keep Rush. He is part of our future starting line up. Don't mess this up Lacob! :letitallout:
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:09 am
I mentioned it in other thread that Rush, at this point, should be obvious choice when it comes to him and Nate. I love Nate, but I feel that he will want a bit too much, and we have Jenkins developing into solid backup PG. Too bad he had to have a great game last night, though. #-o
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:06 am
So that puts our offseason at:

- Resign Dominic McGuire (UFA) ... ~$2.0 million per
- Resign Brandon Rush (RFA) ... ~ $4.0 million per
- Sign 1st Round Draft pick ... ~$1.5 million

Right there, that's $7.5 million already spent. Assuming the caps stays at $58 million, the Warriors will be at $44 after their big 4 of Bogut ($13), Lee ($12), Jefferson ($10), and Biedrins ($9) :roll:. Throw in Dorrell, Klay, and Curry, that's about another $10. In other words, the Warriors will be at $54 million to begin the offseason, however you slice it, leaving only $4 million of cap space (which, in Chris Cohan terms, is enough to sign Rush, McGuire, or the pick). If Labob gives the okay to all 3, the Warriors will be pushed into the luxury tax.

I cannot believe I just typed that.

The Warriors are gonna start paying luxury tax! That's incredibly exciting, as fans!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:20 am
They wouldn't have to, if they just amnestied Biedrins. Hopefully they'll find a way to deal away Dorell, Richardson or even Lee. So we can have some flexibility and opportunity to get good players.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:22 am
We actually start off next year at 62 mil and 8 mil under the luxury tax with Robinson and McGuire coming off the books. That means we have 8 mil to re-sign Rush (assuming we pick him over Robinson), MLE, Bi-Annual, and rookies.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:23 am
Guybrush wrote:They wouldn't have to, if they just amnestied Biedrins. Hopefully they'll find a way to deal away Dorell, Richardson or even Lee. So we can have some flexibility and opportunity to get good players.


Under the most recent CBA, you're only allowed one amnesty provision which we already used on Bell. We're very financially strained for the next 2-3 years. I'm not going to even mention that we haven't even extended Curry yet. It's Luxury tax or bust, man.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:29 am
8th ave wrote:We actually start off next year at 62 mil and 8 mil under the luxury tax with Robinson and McGuire coming off the books. That means we have 8 mil to re-sign Rush (assuming we pick him over Robinson), MLE, Bi-Annual, and rookies.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/golden_state.htm

Really? Did I add something wrong? How did you get $62 million?

You know the cap is at $58,000,000, right? How'd you get your #'s?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:36 am
Hoopshype is good for getting a round figure of current financial situations. They're not very accurate. On the hoops hype, they fail to mention Jenkins, Chris Wright, and Tyler who are all on for 800,000 next year. I just go over to warriors round table to look at Bada's salary spread sheet which is pretty dead on, but he leaves out the contracts for Moore and Gladness, but that doesn't matter since they won't be coming back.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:42 am
Well yeah. Those 3 are UFA's and in all likelihood, we probably won't resign Wright. Jenkins and Tyler (at the aforementioned 800K each) puts it at about $60 million.

But wait, I'm confused... What if we sign Tyler to a D-League contract to start the year? Isn't that a way to avoid putting more money towards the actual cap? And with Bogut, Biedrins, and Lee in tow, I seriously doubt Tyler starts the year up here.
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