32 wrote:

jimbob631 wrote:He had an off shooting night and now he's called selfish? He still dished out 8 assists. And the New York getting more free throws thing is a bull **** conspiracy. They had Lin practicing with the belief that he wouldn't get any free throws so they wouldn't give them to him in practice. Of course he won't be averaging that many free throws or putting up these numbers, but people are going to two extremes. After these 5 games he's third in the league in PER, will that continue, no way, but its something to be excited about for a 23 year old to achieve.

The turnovers are bad, the shooting is streaky and likely won't hold up, and its gonna be a challenge to keep this up with two superstars coming back, doesn't make what Lin has done in uplifting the knicks into the 8th spot any less impressive and it doesn't mean there isn't a good chance he'll be productive for the rest of the season.

I don't think any Lin skeptics here have outright called him selfish. I pointed out his ridiculous amount of field goals per game, but I didn't put a selfish spin on it until someone above tried to overtly claim that Lin was an unselfish point guard. If anything, he's a scoring point who makes the extra pass, but I have yet to see him orchestrate an offense like a true point guard. Before we even embark on that category, we can all agree that true point guards don't call their own number more than half the time.

And as far as what he's done in 5 games, you're right. Those games have been impressive and he has no doubt shined throughout them. The issue isn't what he's done; the skeptics are of a mind that he can't maintain this play (again, prove us wrong). He's always been a good slasher, but with teams overplaying him, to go along with NY's treatment from the officials, he's looked downright unstoppable. To follow up on that: the Knicks shoot the 6th most free throws in the league (and during their past 3 games, they've gotten more whistles than ANY team, including league-leading Denver), so you may wanna reconsider that statement dismissing the whistles as a conspiracy theory. Proof:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/fr ... d-per-game

I suppose it's all just coincidence, right?

I think the ridiculous amount of free throws are the result of a stagnant offense that without Melo and Amare is led by Tyson Chandler and Landry Fields, two players who are inconsistent offensive players at best. The FGA will decrease when Amare and Melo comes back.

The fact that the offense has tremendously improved though with him starting speaks to his abilities as a point guard. Looking beyond the high assist numbers, other players such as Novak, Chandler, and Fields are playing better than they have all season. This is a great deal because the offense has been orchastrated by Lin.

I really don't want to debate the free throw thing, however its interesting to note that teams like Indiana, Sacremento, Utah, Minnesota, and Denver are top ten in free throws attempted. Two years ago New York was 28th, and three years ago they were 22nd.

facue420 wrote:he was asked to shoot more because everyone on knicks was on slumps. thats how Mike D'Antoni's runs his system just like when he was coaching phenix.

you can hate all you want, my point was in three months warriors still sux and the knicks has chance to be a better team.

Whose debating that the Warriors will be better than the Knicks? The topic is JEREMY LIN and my point is that if you think he's honestly a 20 and 8 player, I can't wait to hear what you have to say in 3 months when I bump this. Sure, NY will still be better than the Warriors. Big surprise, seeing as they kinda have this dude named Melo whose a top 10 nba player. But Lin will have crash landed back to earth by then. He might even be Baron Davis' backup. We'll see, won't we.

jimbob631 wrote:I think the ridiculous amount of free throws are the result of a stagnant offense that without Melo and Amare is led by Tyson Chandler and Landry Fields, two players who are inconsistent offensive players at best. The FGA will decrease when Amare and Melo comes back.

The fact that the offense has tremendously improved though with him starting speaks to his abilities as a point guard. Looking beyond the high assist numbers, other players such as Novak, Chandler, and Fields are playing better than they have all season. This is a great deal because the offense has been orchastrated by Lin.

I really don't want to debate the free throw thing, however its interesting to note that teams like Indiana, Sacremento, Utah, Minnesota, and Denver are top ten in free throws attempted. Two years ago New York was 28th, and three years ago they were 22nd.

But that's exactly it: 8 of the leagues top 10 free throw shooting teams are in the playoffs. And I also find it strange how much more NY is getting to the line with the same coach, same system, and only difference being two superstar players known for getting whistles. It's almost as though they were being placed for lottery positions when they were bad, but now are getting superstar whistles since they obviously won't be in the lottery this year. Fact is (and I know you're from NY, Jim, so I wanna preface this by simply reacknowledging that everything here is simply my own, personal opinion, but) regardless of whatever sport it is, NY and LA aaaaaaalways seem to get the special-treatment, big market, superstar whistles. I think the same thing about the Yankees, the Rangers, the Giants, the Jets... And (also) the Lakers, Dodgers, and Kings. I mean, seriously, if it's big money against any small market team, I usually see bias towards the big market; especially in the NBA (which I believe, behind boxing, is the most crooked major sport in America). David Stern loves money more than basketball and anytime a big market team has a chance to shine, he does whatever he can to put them on top.

Here's a question: if Jeremy Lin puts up identical numbers and leads the Memphis Grizzlies to a string of victories, are there any headlines popping up or any air time on national media being made about this kid? Everything gets blown up in NY, and it's a chicken-or-the-egg argument as to whether they shine through NY's hazy pressure or if NY simply makes a bigger deal about mediocre accomplishments. One thing we can all agree on is this: Jeremy Lin has played fantastically in these last 5 games. I'm very interested to see if he can keep this up.

32 wrote:

facue420 wrote:he was asked to shoot more because everyone on knicks was on slumps. thats how Mike D'Antoni's runs his system just like when he was coaching phenix.

you can hate all you want, my point was in three months warriors still sux and the knicks has chance to be a better team.

Whose debating that the Warriors will be better than the Knicks? The topic is JEREMY LIN and my point is that if you think he's honestly a 20 and 8 player, I can't wait to hear what you have to say in 3 months when I bump this. Sure, NY will still be better than the Warriors. Big surprise, seeing as they kinda have this dude named Melo whose a top 10 nba player. But Lin will have crash landed back to earth by then. He might even be Baron Davis' backup. We'll see, won't we.

jimbob631 wrote:I think the ridiculous amount of free throws are the result of a stagnant offense that without Melo and Amare is led by Tyson Chandler and Landry Fields, two players who are inconsistent offensive players at best. The FGA will decrease when Amare and Melo comes back.

The fact that the offense has tremendously improved though with him starting speaks to his abilities as a point guard. Looking beyond the high assist numbers, other players such as Novak, Chandler, and Fields are playing better than they have all season. This is a great deal because the offense has been orchastrated by Lin.

I really don't want to debate the free throw thing, however its interesting to note that teams like Indiana, Sacremento, Utah, Minnesota, and Denver are top ten in free throws attempted. Two years ago New York was 28th, and three years ago they were 22nd.

But that's exactly it: 8 of the leagues top 10 free throw shooting teams are in the playoffs. And I also find it strange how much more NY is getting to the line with the same coach, same system, and only difference being two superstar players known for getting whistles. It's almost as though they were being placed for lottery positions when they were bad, but now are getting superstar whistles since they obviously won't be in the lottery this year. Fact is (and I know you're from NY, Jim, so I wanna preface this by simply reacknowledging that everything here is simply my own, personal opinion, but) regardless of whatever sport it is, NY and LA aaaaaaalways seem to get the special-treatment, big market, superstar whistles. I think the same thing about the Yankees, the Rangers, the Giants, the Jets... And (also) the Lakers, Dodgers, and Kings. I mean, seriously, if it's big money against any small market team, I usually see bias towards the big market; especially in the NBA (which I believe, behind boxing, is the most crooked major sport in America). David Stern loves money more than basketball and anytime a big market team has a chance to shine, he does whatever he can to put them on top.

Here's a question: if Jeremy Lin puts up identical numbers and leads the Memphis Grizzlies to a string of victories, no headlines are popping up and zero tick on national media is being made about this kid. Everything gets blown up in NY, and it's a chicken-or-the-egg argument as to whether they shine through NY's hazy pressure or if NY simply makes a bigger deal about mediocre accomplishments. One thing we can all agree on is this: Jeremy Lin has played fantastically in these last 5 games. I'm very interested to see if he can keep this up.

So why weren't the knicks getting special treatment from refs when Amare first came to the knicks? Why didn't they have it when they were supposed to be a playoff team after trading for Zach Randolph? Why aren't the Lakers in the top 10 in free throws right now? The fact is regardless of how people perceive bias with officiating, none of it is backed up by consistent statistics.

I don't know how true I think it is that Stern helps big market teams more than the small market ones, lets take the labor agreement for a start, big market owners were willing to concede early in the negotiations, it was Stern and the small market owners that held up negotiations. Why didn't Stern let the Hornets trade Paul to the Lakers, wouldn't that be an easy decision for Stern considering how favorable the Media found the trade for the Hornets if he was trying to aid big market teams?

I agree that Lin wouldn't get the attention he was if this was in another market outside LA. Thats a fact of life, the media is based in New York, and we have almost 8 times the population of cities like Memphis.

Oh, Stern continually blamed the small market owners for the entire lockout! He wasn't on their side at all; he all but called them out by name while he through them under the bus! And don't you find it strange that even though Stern wanted more from the Lakers in order to obtain Chris Paul, he STILL found a way to get him to LA? I mean, bro. You bring up the fact that places like NY have a huge population compared to certain small ball communities, but when is enough enough? They push these teams to children and fringe fans so feverishly that it becomes obnoxious. I mean, do the 13 remaining teams in the Western Conference appreciate that 4 of the 5 starters in this years ASG play in the Staples Center? It gets to a point where guys like Dwight, CP3, and Melo are calling shots midseason to be traded to 1 of 4 teams and, frankly, there's more of us fans out there than just the mouth-breathing sheeple following the Lakers, Heat, Knicks, and Mavs. Even OKC doesn't get enough respect or representation and they're the best damn team in the league!

I just feel tired of being force fed the latest, half-hour gossip update of everything LA-and-NY... And Jeremy Lin is a classic example of the hype machine at work. And the next phase of the NY hype machine will be to utterly demolish the guy once he fails to live up to the unreal expectations many people are gathering based on his hot streak in a Knick uniform. Truth is, dude has game. He's got NBA game and, at best, we're talking 14 and 5, like a Derek Fisher or Jose Calderon kinda player. But 25 and 8? Lin-sanity? The new superstar of the Knicks? It's all for the birds. And it's purely, 100% New York hype. Again.

32 - I agree that this has been a very thoughful thread with different perspectives.

I was skeptical too but getting to the line is getting to the line. Whether its bias or not, I'm not going to argue but you have to penetrate to get the calls. Refs dont blow the whistles if all you are doing is shooting jumpers.

In reference to the last game, he actually had a great first half, but an equally awful second half. Despite the amount of shots, his last drive and foul WAS a foul. I dont think anyone is disputing that. Regardless, NBA at the end of the day an entertainment and 95% of the fans are clearly entertain by this kid.

32 wrote:Oh, Stern continually blamed the small market owners for the entire lockout! He wasn't on their side at all; he all but called them out by name while he through them under the bus! And don't you find it strange that even though Stern wanted more from the Lakers in order to obtain Chris Paul, he STILL found a way to get him to LA? I mean, bro. You bring up the fact that places like NY have a huge population compared to certain small ball communities, but when is enough enough? They push these teams to children and fringe fans so feverishly that it becomes obnoxious. I mean, do the 13 remaining teams in the Western Conference appreciate that 4 of the 5 starters in this years ASG play in the Staples Center? It gets to a point where guys like Dwight, CP3, and Melo are calling shots midseason to be traded to 1 of 4 teams and, frankly, there's more of us fans out there than just the mouth-breathing sheeple following the Lakers, Heat, Knicks, and Mavs. Even OKC doesn't get enough respect or representation and they're the best damn team in the league!

I just feel tired of being force fed the latest, half-hour gossip update of everything LA-and-NY... And Jeremy Lin is a classic example of the hype machine at work. And the next phase of the NY hype machine will be to utterly demolish the guy once he fails to live up to the unreal expectations many people are gathering based on his hot streak in a Knick uniform. Truth is, dude has game. He's got NBA game and, at best, we're talking 14 and 5, like a Derek Fisher or Jose Calderon kinda player. But 25 and 8? Lin-sanity? The new superstar of the Knicks? It's all for the birds. And it's purely, 100% New York hype. Again.

Stern got probably the best possible deal he could've from the Clippers, if he was in the business of promoting certain teams he would've sent him to the Lakers as the media was supportive of the trade. Those four players from the staples center deserve to start in that game, with the only exception being possibly Blake Griffin who has been slightly outplayed by Kevin Love. Paul, Kobe, and Bynum are clearly the best players at their position in the conference. OKC gets plenty of respect from the media, James Harden was even considered for an all star berth and he's really not playing at that level.

The Jeremy Lin hype machine is because its a great story, Stern and the NBA aren't peddling it, the media makes money off stories like this. It may not have had the effect it has on a smaller team but it still would be widely reported, especially if he was playing for a team like the warriors. Ricky Rubio has been a huge story and he's been on a small market team, I know its not comparable but the fact that you have the first asian american player averaging 28 and 8 and having the best 5 starts in the history of the NBA is a big deal that should be given hype. Thats why the Linsanity thing makes sense, you may think this won't last, and your probably right, but in 5 games this is the level he's played at, he's lifted the knicks to a solid spot at 8 and it deserves the coverage it has received.

Alright, fair enough. You raise some really good points and I won't argue with you further about Lin.

Regarding the ASG though, not that I mind having Blake YouTube starting to yam a couple thunderous alley-oops down for us fans, but he's easily the 3rd or 4th best PF in the West, behind LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love, and (in this reporter's opinion) one David Lee.

Forgot about Lamarcus Alderidge, him and Love certainly have a case for starting in that game, although I think starting Griffin is less of a problem than Melo starting in the east.

I like the skepticism in your posts for the most part though. Knicks fans tend to overreact to the play of their players and I too want to be cautious before assuming too much about Lin.

He did it again tonight. Unbelievable. smh

Jeez. Imagine if we kept him and traded monta or steph for a serviceable center.

Yeah, he did it, can't deny that. Though, Calderon's defense, or the lack of it throughout the game helped a lot. Lin missed 4 FTs when the game was on the line. And on the last play Calderon was like two steps away from Lin. I don't know what he thought, that Lin would go inside and it was one second before the end of the game. smh

Anyway, Lin took his chance, can't say anything about that. I just think that he has a huge amount of luck as well. Which is also good.

Everyone is talking as if this guy was a 4 year veteran that is finally getting it done or a lottery pick. This guy was undrafted and waived by 2 teams. Not to mention that this is only his second season and from how much he played last year, this is his true rookie season. Yeah, he may not not average 20 and 9 for the rest of the season, but lets give some credit where credit is due. He's playing great right now and I don't think D'Antoni will have him as a backup to Baron Davis anytime soon. The turnovers are going to be there but the kid is 23 years old. He'll get better. His leadership quality is off the charts for a guy that entered league the way he did. You look at guys like Fields and Chandler hanging on every word Lin says in those mini-huddles. They believe in him and thats really all that matters. Haters are going to hate. Believe me, I know since I'm a big hater on Ellis no matter what he does, but thats just my opinion. I even heard someone say that Lin was going to be a bust by the end of the season. Really? Can you really be a bust making $800,000K while going undrafted? Any production out of this guy is going to be a plus and the fact that he's doing what he's doing in NY, of all places, deserves a little recognition.

32 wrote:

facue420 wrote:he was asked to shoot more because everyone on knicks was on slumps. thats how Mike D'Antoni's runs his system just like when he was coaching phenix.

you can hate all you want, my point was in three months warriors still sux and the knicks has chance to be a better team.

Whose debating that the Warriors will be better than the Knicks? The topic is JEREMY LIN and my point is that if you think he's honestly a 20 and 8 player, I can't wait to hear what you have to say in 3 months when I bump this. Sure, NY will still be better than the Warriors. Big surprise, seeing as they kinda have this dude named Melo whose a top 10 nba player. But Lin will have crash landed back to earth by then. He might even be Baron Davis' backup. We'll see, won't we.

jimbob631 wrote:I think the ridiculous amount of free throws are the result of a stagnant offense that without Melo and Amare is led by Tyson Chandler and Landry Fields, two players who are inconsistent offensive players at best. The FGA will decrease when Amare and Melo comes back.

The fact that the offense has tremendously improved though with him starting speaks to his abilities as a point guard. Looking beyond the high assist numbers, other players such as Novak, Chandler, and Fields are playing better than they have all season. This is a great deal because the offense has been orchastrated by Lin.

I really don't want to debate the free throw thing, however its interesting to note that teams like Indiana, Sacremento, Utah, Minnesota, and Denver are top ten in free throws attempted. Two years ago New York was 28th, and three years ago they were 22nd.

But that's exactly it: 8 of the leagues top 10 free throw shooting teams are in the playoffs. And I also find it strange how much more NY is getting to the line with the same coach, same system, and only difference being two superstar players known for getting whistles. It's almost as though they were being placed for lottery positions when they were bad, but now are getting superstar whistles since they obviously won't be in the lottery this year. Fact is (and I know you're from NY, Jim, so I wanna preface this by simply reacknowledging that everything here is simply my own, personal opinion, but) regardless of whatever sport it is, NY and LA aaaaaaalways seem to get the special-treatment, big market, superstar whistles. I think the same thing about the Yankees, the Rangers, the Giants, the Jets... And (also) the Lakers, Dodgers, and Kings. I mean, seriously, if it's big money against any small market team, I usually see bias towards the big market; especially in the NBA (which I believe, behind boxing, is the most crooked major sport in America). David Stern loves money more than basketball and anytime a big market team has a chance to shine, he does whatever he can to put them on top.

Here's a question: if Jeremy Lin puts up identical numbers and leads the Memphis Grizzlies to a string of victories, are there any headlines popping up or any air time on national media being made about this kid? Everything gets blown up in NY, and it's a chicken-or-the-egg argument as to whether they shine through NY's hazy pressure or if NY simply makes a bigger deal about mediocre accomplishments. One thing we can all agree on is this: Jeremy Lin has played fantastically in these last 5 games. I'm very interested to see if he can keep this up.

i dont know how did u come up with the idea of when melo and stud come back, lins wont maintain his high level playmaking. with 2 all stars level players around him, its only going to make him better. i dont know what you have against asian athletes, but jeremy lin is foreal. and yes i will be here after 3 months. i hope u do too, hater

Being a Chinese-American myself and born in SF, its hard for me to not jump on the Linsanity bandwagon. He's in the league which is more than what anyone here can say, including me. If you say this guy can't ball or that he doesn't belong in the league, then you may need to rethink your expertise on the game of basketball.

facue420 wrote:

32 wrote:

facue420 wrote:he was asked to shoot more because everyone on knicks was on slumps. thats how Mike D'Antoni's runs his system just like when he was coaching phenix.

you can hate all you want, my point was in three months warriors still sux and the knicks has chance to be a better team.

Whose debating that the Warriors will be better than the Knicks? The topic is JEREMY LIN and my point is that if you think he's honestly a 20 and 8 player, I can't wait to hear what you have to say in 3 months when I bump this. Sure, NY will still be better than the Warriors. Big surprise, seeing as they kinda have this dude named Melo whose a top 10 nba player. But Lin will have crash landed back to earth by then. He might even be Baron Davis' backup. We'll see, won't we.

jimbob631 wrote:I think the ridiculous amount of free throws are the result of a stagnant offense that without Melo and Amare is led by Tyson Chandler and Landry Fields, two players who are inconsistent offensive players at best. The FGA will decrease when Amare and Melo comes back.

The fact that the offense has tremendously improved though with him starting speaks to his abilities as a point guard. Looking beyond the high assist numbers, other players such as Novak, Chandler, and Fields are playing better than they have all season. This is a great deal because the offense has been orchastrated by Lin.

I really don't want to debate the free throw thing, however its interesting to note that teams like Indiana, Sacremento, Utah, Minnesota, and Denver are top ten in free throws attempted. Two years ago New York was 28th, and three years ago they were 22nd.

But that's exactly it: 8 of the leagues top 10 free throw shooting teams are in the playoffs. And I also find it strange how much more NY is getting to the line with the same coach, same system, and only difference being two superstar players known for getting whistles. It's almost as though they were being placed for lottery positions when they were bad, but now are getting superstar whistles since they obviously won't be in the lottery this year. Fact is (and I know you're from NY, Jim, so I wanna preface this by simply reacknowledging that everything here is simply my own, personal opinion, but) regardless of whatever sport it is, NY and LA aaaaaaalways seem to get the special-treatment, big market, superstar whistles. I think the same thing about the Yankees, the Rangers, the Giants, the Jets... And (also) the Lakers, Dodgers, and Kings. I mean, seriously, if it's big money against any small market team, I usually see bias towards the big market; especially in the NBA (which I believe, behind boxing, is the most crooked major sport in America). David Stern loves money more than basketball and anytime a big market team has a chance to shine, he does whatever he can to put them on top.

Here's a question: if Jeremy Lin puts up identical numbers and leads the Memphis Grizzlies to a string of victories, are there any headlines popping up or any air time on national media being made about this kid? Everything gets blown up in NY, and it's a chicken-or-the-egg argument as to whether they shine through NY's hazy pressure or if NY simply makes a bigger deal about mediocre accomplishments. One thing we can all agree on is this: Jeremy Lin has played fantastically in these last 5 games. I'm very interested to see if he can keep this up.

i dont know how did u come up with the idea of when melo and stud come back, lins wont maintain his high level playmaking. with 2 all stars level players around him, its only going to make him better. i dont know what you have against asian athletes, but jeremy lin is foreal. and yes i will be here after 3 months. i hope u do too, hater

Okay. That's all I need to hear to establish your credibility. Me not drinking Jeremy Lin's kool-aid automatically makes me an Asian-American hater. Hahaha, there is a WORLD of middle-ground your skipping over there, sport. I'll see you in 3 months.