NBA Legends Draft - DONE

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:28 pm
I just want to make a comparison of the starting fives of each team by position, maybe do that for the benches later. I'll rank them as I think as well:



Cs:


Beast Mode - Alonzo Mourning(think he should be the starter and not Dwight for reasons I've given)
fine - David Robinson
Pawno - Nate Thurmond (think he should be the starter ahead of Parish for reasons I've given)
migya - Moses Malone
Mr. Crackerz - Wilt Chamberlain
GSW Hoops Fan - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
JREED - Shaquille O'neal
8th ave - Bill Russell (Hakeem would likely be better suited as PF than Russell)


I think Kareem is so very slightly better overall than Wilt alltime, so I'll say his #1, but is negligible. Russell next best though he isn't a superstar scorer, so maybe Shaq could be ranked ahead of him and that's what I'll say, Shaq is third best here. Russell's incredible rebouding and defense make him next best, but since he lacks a bit offensively, you have to have very good scorers around him. Moses is slightly better than the Admiral alltime. Robinson is better than Thurmond, who was a superstar himself in his era. Mourning was a superstar in his era, but not for more than ten years, really about eight, as he got that kidney condition that made him leave for over a year and he was never a star again. He is quite a level below the other Centers here, but not too major, though very noticeable.

Really not much difference between all the Centers except Mourning, so it really is quite nullified between all the teams.



PFs:


Beast Mode - Dennis Rodman
fine - Elvin Hayes
Pawno - Karl Malone
migya - Kevin Garnett
Mr. Crackerz - Tim Duncan
GSW Hoops Fan - Kevin McHale
JREED - Dirk Nowitzki
8th ave - Hakeem Olajuwon


Difficult here as Hakeem is a Center and not ranked among PFs, but I'll place him second after Duncan, as Duncan has gotten two MVPs to Olajuwon's oe and four championships to Olajuwon's two. Both are elite alltime defenders and rebounders, as well as among the great scorers. Duncan is so slightly ahead of Garnett alltime, though it is really close among most people's opinions, but Duncan is slightly ahead, so KG third here, though him against Hakeem really is even and hard to judge, among all three in fact. KMalone is quite close behind at number four. Dirk is now solidified his place as an alltime great and is fifth best, though he is quite a weak defender and not a great rebounder, so those factors mean he has to be surrounded with players that cover that a fair bit. Hayes was a monster in his era and could really be ranked ahead of Dirk, as he played both ends very well. I'll put McHale ahead of Rodman simply because he played both ends well, where Rodman was an icredible rebounding and very good defender, but his total lack of offense is such a weakness among alltime greats.

After the top four (so including KMalone), there is a bit of a drop off, but really nothing major. I do think McHale and Rodman are at least one significant level below the rest.



SFs:

Beast Mode - Kobe Bryant (I have said I think Worthy is a far better fit next to Jordan, but most here will say it should be Kobe)
fine - Julius Erving
Pawno - Scottie Pippen
migya - Larry Bird
Mr. Crackerz - Dominque Wilkins
GSW Hoops Fan - Lebron James
JREED - Paul Pierce
8th ave - John Havlicek


Bird is definately the #1 SF ever. Havlicek has been ranked second best ever and he played both ends very well, being the best SF defender ever in the eyes of most, though Pippen is comparable for sure defensively. I rate Pippen next, just ahead of Lebron simply because Lebron has only played eight seasons, though elite every one of them and some might place him higher on this list, but I just hold significant length of career (around about at least ten years) highly. Dr. J is next, but I really don't see him as better than Pierce in any way that I can see. Pierce is more allround than Erving and really just ot as heralded, but I'll put Dr. J just ahead. Dominique was a great scorer, the best of this bunch in fact, not counting Kobe, but he was the least allround and the worst defensively. Kobe I just find hard to rate here, but I'd say he could be placed second talent wise after Bird and last in fitting with his team, as him next to Jordan is really a question mark. Kobe is much more like Jordan than he is like Pippen, who can really be said to be the best #2 man on a team ever, as he was with Jordan.

Quite close between many of these players and I look at allroundness really, as all seem to be real good scorers.



SGs:

Beast Mode - Michael Jordan
fine - Clyde Drexler
Pawno - Dwayne Wade
migya - George Gervin
Mr. Crackerz - Allen Iverson
GSW Hoops Fan - Jerry West
JREED - Reggie Miller
8th ave - Sidney Moncrief


Jordan is the best and I don't think it's close. I think Iverson is next as he was so unguardable, but he doesn't fit on this team, as the other starters are more half court players. West, Drexler and Gervin are relatively equal, since West is much smaller and is less defensively, especially against taller alltime great SGs. Wade really is next, but since his career is still quite short, he can be no higher. Moncrief is next, since he could score relatively well, as good as Miller, but was a far better defender.

Moncrief and Miller are definately a few levels below the rest.



PGs:

Beast Mode - Steve Nash
fine - Magic Johnson
Pawno - Oscar Robertson
migya - Jason Kidd
Mr. Crackerz - John Stockton
GSW Hoops Fan - Walt Frazier
REED - Isiah Thomas
8th ave - Gary Payton


Magic is clear cut the best. Oscar is not too far behind. Kidd, to me is next, as though he wasn't such a great scorer, he is among the best defending PGs ever and third most allround, after the first two mentioned here. Stockton is next, just behind Kidd, as he did't score much either compared to alltime greats, but played both ends and got the assists ofcourse. Isiah is next, but he was always seen as a negative attitude, wanting to be the man and on a team with other greats he could be a chemistry issue. Payton is the best defending PG ever, maybe among all guards, and he played both ends. Nash is close behind, but his lack of defense is such a liability among these PGs, but he is one of the best accurate shooters ever, as well as passers, at least in the last six or seven years of his career. Frazier is quite close behind and he is the second best defending PG ever.

Quite close, as all PGs here passed well and that is the most important thing, but the top two are the most complete.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:32 pm
Mr. Crackerz wrote:Well, GSW Hoops Fan, there is a website that does sell software that would allow to simulate a season with our teams. The website is

http://www.strat-o-matic.com/

THis is the website the guys at si.com used to do their legendary draft. Maybe if I save some money, I will buy it for the forum next year.




Do you have a link to that legends draft?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:47 am
migya wrote:I just want to make a comparison of the starting fives of each team by position, maybe do that for the benches later. I'll rank them as I think as well:



Cs:


Beast Mode - Alonzo Mourning(think he should be the starter and not Dwight for reasons I've given)
fine - David Robinson
Pawno - Nate Thurmond (think he should be the starter ahead of Parish for reasons I've given)
migya - Moses Malone
Mr. Crackerz - Wilt Chamberlain
GSW Hoops Fan - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
JREED - Shaquille O'neal
8th ave - Bill Russell (Hakeem would likely be better suited as PF than Russell)


I think Kareem is so very slightly better overall than Wilt alltime, so I'll say his #1, but is negligible. Russell next best though he isn't a superstar scorer, so maybe Shaq could be ranked ahead of him and that's what I'll say, Shaq is third best here. Russell's incredible rebouding and defense make him next best, but since he lacks a bit offensively, you have to have very good scorers around him. Moses is slightly better than the Admiral alltime. Robinson is better than Thurmond, who was a superstar himself in his era. Mourning was a superstar in his era, but not for more than ten years, really about eight, as he got that kidney condition that made him leave for over a year and he was never a star again. He is quite a level below the other Centers here, but not too major, though very noticeable.

Really not much difference between all the Centers except Mourning, so it really is quite nullified between all the teams.



PFs:


Beast Mode - Dennis Rodman
fine - Elvin Hayes
Pawno - Karl Malone
migya - Kevin Garnett
Mr. Crackerz - Tim Duncan
GSW Hoops Fan - Kevin McHale
JREED - Dirk Nowitzki
8th ave - Hakeem Olajuwon


Difficult here as Hakeem is a Center and not ranked among PFs, but I'll place him second after Duncan, as Duncan has gotten two MVPs to Olajuwon's oe and four championships to Olajuwon's two. Both are elite alltime defenders and rebounders, as well as among the great scorers. Duncan is so slightly ahead of Garnett alltime, though it is really close among most people's opinions, but Duncan is slightly ahead, so KG third here, though him against Hakeem really is even and hard to judge, among all three in fact. KMalone is quite close behind at number four. Dirk is now solidified his place as an alltime great and is fifth best, though he is quite a weak defender and not a great rebounder, so those factors mean he has to be surrounded with players that cover that a fair bit. Hayes was a monster in his era and could really be ranked ahead of Dirk, as he played both ends very well. I'll put McHale ahead of Rodman simply because he played both ends well, where Rodman was an icredible rebounding and very good defender, but his total lack of offense is such a weakness among alltime greats.

After the top four (so including KMalone), there is a bit of a drop off, but really nothing major. I do think McHale and Rodman are at least one significant level below the rest.



SFs:

Beast Mode - Kobe Bryant (I have said I think Worthy is a far better fit next to Jordan, but most here will say it should be Kobe)
fine - Julius Erving
Pawno - Scottie Pippen
migya - Larry Bird
Mr. Crackerz - Dominque Wilkins
GSW Hoops Fan - Lebron James
JREED - Paul Pierce
8th ave - John Havlicek


Bird is definately the #1 SF ever. Havlicek has been ranked second best ever and he played both ends very well, being the best SF defender ever in the eyes of most, though Pippen is comparable for sure defensively. I rate Pippen next, just ahead of Lebron simply because Lebron has only played eight seasons, though elite every one of them and some might place him higher on this list, but I just hold significant length of career (around about at least ten years) highly. Dr. J is next, but I really don't see him as better than Pierce in any way that I can see. Pierce is more allround than Erving and really just ot as heralded, but I'll put Dr. J just ahead. Dominique was a great scorer, the best of this bunch in fact, not counting Kobe, but he was the least allround and the worst defensively. Kobe I just find hard to rate here, but I'd say he could be placed second talent wise after Bird and last in fitting with his team, as him next to Jordan is really a question mark. Kobe is much more like Jordan than he is like Pippen, who can really be said to be the best #2 man on a team ever, as he was with Jordan.

Quite close between many of these players and I look at allroundness really, as all seem to be real good scorers.



SGs:

Beast Mode - Michael Jordan
fine - Clyde Drexler
Pawno - Dwayne Wade
migya - George Gervin
Mr. Crackerz - Allen Iverson
GSW Hoops Fan - Jerry West
JREED - Reggie Miller
8th ave - Sidney Moncrief


Jordan is the best and I don't think it's close. I think Iverson is next as he was so unguardable, but he doesn't fit on this team, as the other starters are more half court players. West, Drexler and Gervin are relatively equal, since West is much smaller and is less defensively, especially against taller alltime great SGs. Wade really is next, but since his career is still quite short, he can be no higher. Moncrief is next, since he could score relatively well, as good as Miller, but was a far better defender.

Moncrief and Miller are definately a few levels below the rest.



PGs:

Beast Mode - Steve Nash
fine - Magic Johnson
Pawno - Oscar Robertson
migya - Jason Kidd
Mr. Crackerz - John Stockton
GSW Hoops Fan - Walt Frazier
REED - Isiah Thomas
8th ave - Gary Payton


Magic is clear cut the best. Oscar is not too far behind. Kidd, to me is next, as though he wasn't such a great scorer, he is among the best defending PGs ever and third most allround, after the first two mentioned here. Stockton is next, just behind Kidd, as he did't score much either compared to alltime greats, but played both ends and got the assists ofcourse. Isiah is next, but he was always seen as a negative attitude, wanting to be the man and on a team with other greats he could be a chemistry issue. Payton is the best defending PG ever, maybe among all guards, and he played both ends. Nash is close behind, but his lack of defense is such a liability among these PGs, but he is one of the best accurate shooters ever, as well as passers, at least in the last six or seven years of his career. Frazier is quite close behind and he is the second best defending PG ever.

Quite close, as all PGs here passed well and that is the most important thing, but the top two are the most complete.



are you trying to create some kind of guide line?? i dont think that's gonna work buddy... i bet all you're doing is going off of that one site that you linked earlier in this thread....

and wth?!?!?! according to your sf rankings, i picked the 2nd best sf and you said i reached?!?!

migya wrote:
I think your picks are actually very good, except Havlicek, who would have been available later and is not a good starting SF in an alltime team, though not a bad one.



you need to stop smokin whatever you're smokin... that **** is laced :banghead:
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:12 am
8th ave wrote:and wth?!?!?! according to your sf rankings, i picked the 2nd best sf and you said i reached?!?!

migya wrote:
I think your picks are actually very good, except Havlicek, who would have been available later and is not a good starting SF in an alltime team, though not a bad one.



you need to stop smokin whatever you're smokin... that **** is laced :banghead:



That was when everyone had just made three picks. What I meant, at that time, was that he was the worst of the SFs picked at that time and to be honest, I do take it back, because Lebron just hasn't played enough yet to be ranked ahead of Havlicek and Pippen really could be said to be close to what Havlicek was. Havlicek was a good scorer though not a great one and I think that was what I was thinking about at that time, comparing him to Bird, Lebron and Pippen, who were the other SFs picked at that time.

Also, I thought there were a few other players who could have been picked before Havlicek at that point, but he was a good pick and at that point, your first three was real good, especially defensively. Dropped off a bit after that :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:15 am
The rest of you need to give your team rakings at least if you don't want to give a team by team analysis as well
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:14 am
Alright, so far the votes give are as follows. The team voted 1st by each person given 7 points and so forth until the 7th team (or worst) which gets 1 point. Noone can vote for their own team ofcourse:



migya Ratings:
1 - Crackers
2 - fine
3 - GSW Hoops Fan
4 - JREED
5 - Beast Mode
6 - Pawno
7 - 8th ave


8th ave ratings -
1- gswhoops
2- jreed
3- beast
4- crackerz
5- pawno
6- fine
7- mig


Crackers ratings -
1. Migya
2. GSW Hoops Fan
3. JREED
4. Fine
5. Beast Mode
6. Pawno
7. 8th Ave


GSW Hoops Fan ratings -
1- Mr. Crakerz
2- Fine
3- Beast Mode
4- Jreed
5- Pwano
6- Migya
7- 8th Ave


Only four of us have given our ratings and that was migya, Crackers, 8th ave and GSW Hoops Fan.

Still to give their ratings are JREED, Pawno, Beast and fine




Total points:
JREED - 19
Mr. Crackerz - 18
GSW Hoops Fan - 18
fine - 18
Beast Mode - 16
migya - 10
Pawno - 10
8th Ave - 3
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:59 am
So my ratings are based on how i can imagine these teams really playing together so they may stray from everyone else. Really this was difficult for me to do because I could have just as easily swapped positions in the order with several teams and been fine with it - the top 5 teams were so close and good.

1- Migya - Solid line up and probably the most thought-out bench Cater and T mac are the only questionable picks for me here. Overall, I can see what migs was doing here and I can imagine this froup playing really well together
2-Beast Mode - I just can imagine anything being able to stop this offense.
3-fine - Awesome team, definitely stacked at guard but kind of lost me with Chauncey Billups and Amare Stoudemire
4-Mr. Crackerz - The best all around starting 5
5-GSW-So much talent but i just don't see it fitting together
6-8th Ave - Actually a much better team than everyone is giving him credit for.
7-Pawno there are just too many players here that didn't belong in this draft. However I'm with Pawn-dog when it comes to the mail man - he wasn't a bad pick and that guy was really good for a long time and revolutionized how the forward position was played (diiiiiirty!).

I know I kind of missed the point with a few of my picks but I was imagining if you took these guys' best years and put them together - in that case I would certainly still keep Rose and Durrant, Jackson was because i ran out of ideas. I still think my squad is solid and that i have the best coach - Phil Jackson ran into the best luck with having 3 incredible players and several great role players, so IMO he isn't close - if you give Pat those guys then he wins as many if not 1-2 more.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:47 am
JREED wrote:So my ratings are based on how i can imagine these teams really playing together so they may stray from everyone else. Really this was difficult for me to do because I could have just as easily swapped positions in the order with several teams and been fine with it - the top 5 teams were so close and good.

1- Migya - Solid line up and probably the most thought-out bench Cater and T mac are the only questionable picks for me here. Overall, I can see what migs was doing here and I can imagine this froup playing really well together
2-Beast Mode - I just can imagine anything being able to stop this offense.
3-fine - Awesome team, definitely stacked at guard but kind of lost me with Chauncey Billups and Amare Stoudemire
4-Mr. Crackerz - The best all around starting 5
5-GSW-So much talent but i just don't see it fitting together
6-8th Ave - Actually a much better team than everyone is giving him credit for.
7-Pawno there are just too many players here that didn't belong in this draft. However I'm with Pawn-dog when it comes to the mail man - he wasn't a bad pick and that guy was really good for a long time and revolutionized how the forward position was played (diiiiiirty!).

I know I kind of missed the point with a few of my picks but I was imagining if you took these guys' best years and put them together - in that case I would certainly still keep Rose and Durrant, Jackson was because i ran out of ideas. I still think my squad is solid and that i have the best coach - Phil Jackson ran into the best luck with having 3 incredible players and several great role players, so IMO he isn't close - if you give Pat those guys then he wins as many if not 1-2 more.




Nice review JREED and thanks for the props.


Total points so far:
fine - 23
Mr. Crackerz - 22
Beast Mode - 22
GSW Hoops Fan - 21
JREED - 19
migya - 17
Pawno - 11
8th Ave - 5



8th ave did rank me last just because he got a little angry but anyway.


I'll place the total points so far for the teams at the end of the first post in this thread
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:27 am
i just dont like your team... dont take it personal
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:55 am
First Tier - The favorite
1. Migya - Well rounded. No obvious personality conflicts.

Second Tier - Could easily be a 3-way tie.
2. JREED - Has the most talent, but some awkward lineups and possible chemistry issues.
3. Crackerz - Good group but lack of 3pt shooting.
4. GSW Hoops Fan - Very solid but trumped by above teams.

Third Tier - Some problems
5. Beast Mode - Has talent but not impressed by bigs and too contemporary
6. Pawno - Good collection but needs more defensive bigman

Fourth Tier - Big problem
7. 8th Ave - Too little O.


Overall I don't see a problem with having 1 or 2 guys on a team that maybe don't belong. It's not like they're are going to be enough minutes to go around. So I didn't penalize for any of that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:58 pm
8th ave wrote:i just dont like your team... dont take it personal



Hey that's fair enough, I just don't see how you could not like it so much
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:59 pm
fine wrote:First Tier - The favorite
1. Migya - Well rounded. No obvious personality conflicts.

Second Tier - Could easily be a 3-way tie.
2. JREED - Has the most talent, but some awkward lineups and possible chemistry issues.
3. Crackerz - Good group but lack of 3pt shooting.
4. GSW Hoops Fan - Very solid but trumped by above teams.

Third Tier - Some problems
5. Beast Mode - Has talent but not impressed by bigs and too contemporary
6. Pawno - Good collection but needs more defensive bigman

Fourth Tier - Big problem
7. 8th Ave - Too little O.


Overall I don't see a problem with having 1 or 2 guys on a team that maybe don't belong. It's not like they're are going to be enough minutes to go around. So I didn't penalize for any of that.




Nice review as well and thanks for the props also.

Only Pawno and Beast left to give their ratings
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:45 pm
migya wrote:
8th ave wrote:i just dont like your team... dont take it personal



Hey that's fair enough, I just don't see how you could not like it so much


aw shucks.... sorry
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:10 am
fine wrote:6. Pawno - Good collection but needs more defensive bigman



Yeah bro and that's why i took Andrew Bogut with the 11th pick... I knew Thurmond and Parrish are offensive juggernauts. I had to take a talented shot blocker and currently in the league.. There's Dwight Howard then my Boi Bogut no.2 best blocker on the planet (in my opinion)

Bogut also plays the passing lanes real well.. Still I doubt anyone is going to take my Christian Laettner analogy of burying him on the bench.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:02 am
PAWNO wrote:
fine wrote:6. Pawno - Good collection but needs more defensive bigman



Yeah bro and that's why i took Andrew Bogut with the 11th pick... I knew Thurmond and Parrish are offensive juggernauts. I had to take a talented shot blocker and currently in the league.. There's Dwight Howard then my Boi Bogut no.2 best blocker on the planet (in my opinion)

Bogut also plays the passing lanes real well.. Still I doubt anyone is going to take my Christian Laettner analogy of burying him on the bench.




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