NBA Legends Draft - DONE

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:13 pm
I'm sorry I'm probably not going to bother write up a review after Migya,BEAST etc have been blasting my team.

It's an argument I can never win & that I can never prove due to there being no way to prove it with a fantasy season etc
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:19 pm
You drafted Andrew Bogut in a legends draft.



/case closed
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:25 pm
the legends draft will always have issues because of the evolution of talent over the years. theres no damn way George Mikan would stand a chance against Dwight Howard. Dwight probly wouldn't even have to jump to swat all his shots. A 6'11 260 athletic machine could play in any era.

Starting 5:

PG: Nash
SG: Jordan
SF: Worthy
PF: Rodman
C: Mourning

Nash, the ultimate distributor & NBA's leading shooter all time (% wise). Not the best defender but is surrounded by 4 defensive BEASTS to make up for it. Jordan can handle the scoring & leadership and yadda yadda. Worthy is who he is, the quiet worker that every team needs... but doesn't seem to garner enough attention. Rodman for rebounds/defense, Mourning for low post scoring/shot blocking.

Bench:

PG: Deron Williams/KJ
SG: Kobe Bryant/Eddie Jones
SF: Eddie Jones
PF: Chris Webber
C: Dwight Howard

Chris would fit perfectly next to D12 as Chris was more of a elbow jumper type of 4 opposed to low post. If I wanted to go all defense the line up would be:

PG: D-Will
SG: Jordan
SF: Rodman
PF: Mourning
C: Howard

and I still have Yao Ming to ensure our global prosperity ($$$$)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:47 pm
Alright so since Beast Mode had all modern players it was easiest to review his team. Don't know if I can do every team in the league though since there are guys I don't know a lot about.

Beast Mode

What I like most:

Kobe and Jordan pairing – while some may not like it I can see Kobe taking a backseat to MJ. In fact, I think MJ is one of the few guys in the world he would defer to. And while you have Kobe as a backup I can see him willing to adopt a Pippen like mentality and thrive on court with MJ.

Doc Rivers – a modern team needed a modern coach.

What I don't like:

Too much from modern era. Not enough basketball history in this team and that has to factor in somewhere. I would say (personal rule/opinion) players with <10 years experience can't be relied upon heavily for big minutes. That somewhat devalues some of your picks.

Point Guards – your first two picks have had great careers without ever relying on a really great passing point guard. I would have looked for PG's with more defensive ability like Dumars or Payton. Nash's offense makes up for some but KJ I don't see how he fits. (Edit – you have Dwill as second string which helps a bit)

Small Centers – How much playing time can Yao handle? Outside of him the bigs are at a constant size advantage and when going against all-time talent this problem will be exploited. Btw Chris Webber seems like the kind of guy who would not thrive in a "Legends League".

Overall impression: The team will fail to live up to it's hype. There will be high expectations at the start. They may not meet them right away but eventually will turn things around. However, as they approach the Finals, there weaknesses will be exploited. (2010-2011 Heat)
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:27 pm
Most of this is subjective, and where you could argue some points like Kobe not being a 3, not having an established leader, not having a good bench, etc. etc. I think there is no real way to tell how these teams would work out together.
Not everyone is going to have the ball in their hands, not everyone is going to be able to put up 20+ shots.

Since there is no real rule that has been established on how to rank, or rate the teams, I thought I would make a suggestion.

All the teams are pretty good, and of course everyone is biased to their own teams.
So if everyone ranks each team, minus their own, from 1 - 7, one being their favorite, seven being their least favorite, then you can come up with a way to evaluate each team. Every team that gets a 1 gets 7points, 2 gets 6, 3 gets 5, .... , 7 gets 1. Add up all the points from everyones rankings and then you have a consensus on the best to "least best" team.

What do y'all think?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:42 pm
I think that is a great idea. DO you want to private vote or do it public. I don't care with either.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:49 pm
GSW Hoops Fan wrote:Most of this is subjective, and where you could argue some points like Kobe not being a 3, not having an established leader, not having a good bench, etc. etc. I think there is no real way to tell how these teams would work out together.
Not everyone is going to have the ball in their hands, not everyone is going to be able to put up 20+ shots.

Since there is no real rule that has been established on how to rank, or rate the teams, I thought I would make a suggestion.

All the teams are pretty good, and of course everyone is biased to their own teams.
So if everyone ranks each team, minus their own, from 1 - 7, one being their favorite, seven being their least favorite, then you can come up with a way to evaluate each team. Every team that gets a 1 gets 7points, 2 gets 6, 3 gets 5, .... , 7 gets 1. Add up all the points from everyones rankings and then you have a consensus on the best to "least best" team.

What do y'all think?


why dont you just do 1-7, 7 being least favorite, and whoever gets the least amount of points wins...

but yeah im for it... here are my votes

1- gswhoops
2- jreed (very, very close to getting my number 1 vote)
3- beast
4- crackerz
5- i have pawndawg and fine as a tie, but thats not gonna work in terms of voting. so, i flipped a coin and it landed on tails so that give pawno 5th place
6- fine
7- mig
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:58 pm
Beast Mode wrote:You drafted Andrew Bogut in a legends draft.



/case closed



So it's not a reach when it's my last pick or 2nd last pick in the draft. I said he would be put at the end of the bench kind of like Christian Laettner in the dream team (He is a former 1st round 1st pick).

It's not like Bogut is even in my rotation, I grabbed him because he is the 2nd best shot blocker in the league and this was a weakness on my team that I addressed. CASE CLOSED *IGGA!!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:05 pm
8th ave wrote:migya - i give you last place because you said you were gonna give you unbiased opinion and crowned yourself the winner.


HAHAHAHAHA :mrgreen:

What can I say, I really do think that about my team and gave what I consider, proper explanation on pretty much everything. I wasn't going to say, "oh, Bird is probably just a top 5 SF and was a winner, but not really a great winner". That was blunt, I know, but you know what I mean.

Go ahead and give an honest analysis of my team, in your opinion. We all are entitled to that, regardless of what anyone else thinks.


8th ave wrote:i picked 80% of my players based on all defensive team selections and defensive player of the year awards....in the end i knew i wasnt gonna win, so i wanted to have the team that i wanted...


I said your team was a great defensive one in my analysis. You are entitled to pick whoever you want to pick, noone can stop that, but the thing was to try and pick the best team possible, in other words, try to be ranked number one. From the players you picked, you are not number one and you have to accept that, that's all, nothing personal against you, just your team as you picked them.


PAWNO wrote:I'm sorry I'm probably not going to bother write up a review after Migya,BEAST etc have been blasting my team.

It's an argument I can never win & that I can never prove due to there being no way to prove it with a fantasy season etc


Don't worry who has been blasting your team or not. You picked who you wanted and that's your right. Say what you think about everyone's team, including your own and we'll have a consensus overall standing.



Beast Mode wrote:the legends draft will always have issues because of the evolution of talent over the years. theres no damn way George Mikan would stand a chance against Dwight Howard. Dwight probly wouldn't even have to jump to swat all his shots. A 6'11 260 athletic machine could play in any era.


How I see it (and we basically did this in the first two Legends Drafts, with totally different participants ofcourse), is that you have to be comparable across eras objectively. By that I mean that someone who was a superstar Center in the 1960s, averaging say 25pts and 15rebs (for arguments sake), should be held in pretty much the same level as a superstar Center in the 1990s who averaged 25pts and 15rebs. Obviously, the standard gets higher with every era, as the players now are far more athletic, stronger, faster etc, than ever before. No way a player like Cousy would even make the nba now (with how he played and skill level he had then). let alone play with Derrick Rose. This is a Legends Draft and we have to be objective in comparing players across all eras.



GSW Hoops Fan wrote:Most of this is subjective, and where you could argue some points like Kobe not being a 3, not having an established leader, not having a good bench, etc. etc. I think there is no real way to tell how these teams would work out together.
Not everyone is going to have the ball in their hands, not everyone is going to be able to put up 20+ shots.

Since there is no real rule that has been established on how to rank, or rate the teams, I thought I would make a suggestion.

All the teams are pretty good, and of course everyone is biased to their own teams.
So if everyone ranks each team, minus their own, from 1 - 7, one being their favorite, seven being their least favorite, then you can come up with a way to evaluate each team. Every team that gets a 1 gets 7points, 2 gets 6, 3 gets 5, .... , 7 gets 1. Add up all the points from everyones rankings and then you have a consensus on the best to "least best" team.

What do y'all think?


I totally agree that this could be the best way to rank teams and so come up with an overall ranking.

I would like to read an analysis from everyone, be it short or long. Good to hear other people's opinions and view points.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:24 pm
1. Migya- The strongest team IMO, but not by much. Good overall selection of picks from beginning to end.

2. GSW Hoops Fan- Strong final picks (plus Phil Jackson) allowed you to jump over JREEd for #2

3. JREED- Possible the best front court when Nowitzki's career is all said and done.

4. Fine- No arguments about your team. Barely beat out by the top three

5. Beast Mode- Jordan, Kobe, Howard is a legit big three (plus Doc is a good coach). Jones was overrated for me, and Deron is a bit too young for me as a legend.

6. Pawno- Lacking an elite bigment (Parrish was great, but i think he benefitted for his longevity versus dominance skill... he was just really good for a long time, not really great). However, with that said, your team isn't nearly as bad as people make it to be. I wouldnt have chosen those last 2 picks, plus Nelson, but you got lots of good picks.

7. 8th Ave- Questionable final 5 picks. Though you picked a great coach and have an abundant of great bigmen, you lack elite shooters from midrange/outside.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:50 pm
I like JReed's team best tbh. Dirk next to Shaq is disgusting.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:04 pm
Here is my vote:

1- Mr. Crakerz
2- Fine
3- Beast Mode
4- Jreed
5- Pwano
6- Migya
7- 8th Ave.

I tried to be as unbaised as possible, here is how I broke the teams down for those that care:

Beast Mode:
Offense rating: 7th
PPG + APG = Total
219.8 + 52.9 = 272.7

Defensive Rating: 4
BLK + STL + RB = Total
12.0 + 14.0 + 84.6 = 110.6

Champoinships: 3
20

Breakdown:
PG: Nash - Johnson - Williams
SG: Jordan - Jones
SF: Kobe - Worthy
PF: Rodman - Webber
C: Howard - Mourning - Ming

I think Jordan and Kobe would make an excellent duo, the problem with Kobe not being a small forward only is concenring on the defensive end. With Nash running the team, I don't think you would have a problem with their attitudes, because nash is ball dominant, and he is the point guard. He is not the kind of PG who would let Jordan run the team, and thus take away from Kobe and others. Howard and Rodman make a good defensive fornt court, but I don't think they would be dominant in this format. They have also have trouble scoring, as howard doesn't have a real defined offensive game yet. You have a decent bench, you have shooters and defenders, and you have big men who have size and can defend.



Fine:
Offense rating: 4th
PPG + APG = Total
232.2 + 52.0 = 284.2


Defensive Rating: 3
BLK + STL + RB = Total
15.6 + 15.9 + 80.5 = 112.0

Champoinships: 5
16

Breakdown:
PG: Magic - Billups - Johnson
SG: Drexler - Maravich
SF: Erving - Mullin
PF: Hayes - Stoudemire
C: Robinson - Walton - Gilmore

I would love to see Magic and Erving play together. This team has shooters, athletic wings, shot blockers and the best PG to ever play. They are a defensive team so it is understandable. I think you are a bit short at the PF and would get abused by some of the more complete front court teams out there.

Pawno:
Offense rating: 6
PPG + APG = Total
223.9 + 53.7 = 277.6

Defensive Rating: 7
BLK + STL + RB = Total
10.1 + 15.2 + 75.0 = 100.3



Champoinships: 6
15

Breakdown:
PG: Oscar - Hardaway
SG: Wade - Sprewell
SF: Pippen - Barry
PF: Malone - Kemp - Odom
C: Parish - Thurmond - Bogut

Nice all Around team. Only weakness is probably in the Center spot. And that is not much of a weakness and Parish and Thurmond and can still hold their own against these top centers, but they are probably on the bottom half of the center rankings all time. They would not be much of a scorer against these other teams, but with Oscar, Wade, Pippen, Malone, you don't need to worry about scoring.


Migya:
Offense rating: 5
PPG + APG = Total
232.0 + 50.8 = 282.8

Defensive Rating: 8
BLK + STL + RB = Total
10.5 + 13.6 + 70.2 = 94.3
(Baylor missing BLK and STL)

Champoinships: 8
8

Breakdown:
PG: Kidd - Wilkens
SG: Gervin - Carter - McGrady
SF: Bird - Baylor
PF: Garnett - Lucas
C: Moses - Lanier - Wallace


Good Offensive team with Kidd running the point. I think the front court is a bit short, with Moses at the starting Center, but he is one of the best centers ever, so to big of a hit. Rebounds seems like it may be an issue on this team, as well as shot blocking. Gervin was a smooth scorer, and Carter was an athletic freak. Although, I don't think they were ever considered good defesive players. I may be wrong about that though. All around it is a pretty solid team, some scoring, some defensive, pieces seem to fit.

Mr. Crackerz:
Offense rating: 3
PPG + APG = Total
231.7 + 57.5 = 289.2

Defensive Rating: 2
BLK + STL + RB = Total
5.5 + 12.4 + 95.2 = 113.1
(wilt missing BLK + STL)
(Pettit missing BLK + STL)
(cousy missing BLK + STL)

Champoinships: 1
25

Breakdown:
PG: Stockton - Cousy
SG: Iverson - Richmond - Ginobili
SF: Wilkens - Hill
PF: Duncan - Pettit - Horry
C: Wilt - McAdoo

This is definately one of my favorite teams out there. Stockton is a great TRUE point guards, and he was a good defender too. With Scoring athletic freaks running next to him in Iverson and Wilkens, that would have been fun to watch. Then you have one of the best, if not the best front courts in Wilt and Duncan. I am not too enamored with your bench, except for Cousy and Pettit and McAdoo, those are all questionable picks in my opinion for a Legends draft. But they do fit roles, so that is more nit picking then anything else.

GSW Hoops Fan:
Offense rating: 1
PPG + APG = Total
239.5 + 52.8 = 292.3

Defensive Rating: 6
BLK + STL + RB = Total
12.5 + 14.3 + 78.2 = 105

Champoinships: 4
17

Breakdown:
PG: Frazier - Dumars - Archibald
SG: West - Hardaway
SF: James - English
PF: McHale - Gasol
C: Kareem - Ewing - Sabonis

I went for defense on this team. I have a very tall front court, with shot blocking at the SF, PF and C position. But I aslo have a lot of scoring in West, James and Kareem. I picked a bench that could also play defense, but provided some aspects the starters didn't. West is definately the leader of the team, and I think him and Kareem would make a good 1 - 2 tandeem.

JREED:
Offense rating: 2
PPG + APG = Total
240.8 + 50.6 = 291.4

Defensive Rating: 5
BLK + STL + RB = Total
10.1 + 14.6 + 82.9 = 107.6

Champoinships: 7
11

Breakdown:
PG: Thomas - Rose - Jackson
SG: Miller - Allen
SF: Durant - Pierce
PF: Nowitzki - Barkley
C: O'Neal - Reed - Nance

This is probably the most controversal team here because they have the least experience, as you have a couple players who are still only a couple years into their career. But they are good pieces, and I do think they will be legends one day. I am not going to take that into consideration since it was not put in any rule before the draft to have a minimum number of years played. I think your weakness here is defense, with miller and Nowitzki. O'Neal makes up for it a little, as he is a beast. Reed and Barkley are kind of small for their positions in this format. You definately have some scoring power, so it is up to your coach to decide to play an uptempo game and perhaps use Reed as your starting C, or play half court to get the most out of O'Neal.


8th Ave. :
Offense rating: 8
PPG + APG = Total
205.4 + 48.2 = 253.6

Defensive Rating: 1
BLK + STL + RB = Total
8.9 + 14.1 + 92.0 = 115
(Russell missing BLK + STL)


Champoinships: 2
22

Breakdown:
PG: Payton - Monroe - Van Lier
SG: Moncrief - Dantley - Westbrook
SF: Havlicek - Sloan
PF: Oloajuwon - Aldridge
C: Russell -Mutombo

Great Defensive team.. probably would come only second to Mr. Crakerz team. However offensively you don't really have a go to guy, and you Oloajuwon at PF does'nt make a whole lot of sense when faced against some of the more athletick PF's. I think you needed some more pure shooters to spread the floor for the cutters and for Hakeem and Russell. I think you aslo need some beefier front court pieces, as you only have tall skinny centers. Evern though they are really good, they are going to tire if they are going against some of these other teams with muscle up front.


-----------------
By the way, I thought Mr. Crakerz was the clear best all around team, then after that, all of them were pretty close. Some rankings came down to the coach.

The question is now... how do we create these teams on NBA Live and put it to the test??
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:41 pm
GSW Hoops Fan wrote:Here is my vote:

Great Defensive team.. probably would come only second to Mr. Crakerz team.



no dude... i have THE best defensive team... and im not even kidding

However offensively you don't really have a go to guy, and you Oloajuwon at PF does'nt make a whole lot of sense when faced against some of the more athletick PF's


russell gets moved to the 4
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:42 pm
DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY ALL DEFENSIVE SELECTIONS I HAVE?!?!?!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:56 pm
Well, GSW Hoops Fan, there is a website that does sell software that would allow to simulate a season with our teams. The website is

http://www.strat-o-matic.com/

THis is the website the guys at si.com used to do their legendary draft. Maybe if I save some money, I will buy it for the forum next year.
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