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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:58 pm
facue420 wrote:
Pworld wrote:Mark Jackson just said on PTI he will love the opportunity to coach Monta Ellis. He said rumors will be rumors and he will make this team accountable to defense as his first objective to them.


So I'm hoping Golden State doesn't do this dumb ass trade. Monta Ellis can play defense but he hasn't had a coach who has really made them focus on it yet. Also that man is our closer/clutch guy so I don't wanna see him leave, especially for someone like Andre Iguadola.


if u watch warriors games enough, ull notice monte always go for steal, thats not playin good defense, and the fact that he doesnt run plays to pass the ball to our interior players, thats what made AB playin without passion. when bdavis was on the team he past the ball, and monte just demand the ball too much, 40mins a game?? of course we suck in 4th quater to close out games :banghead:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:03 pm
facue420 wrote:
Pworld wrote:Mark Jackson just said on PTI he will love the opportunity to coach Monta Ellis. He said rumors will be rumors and he will make this team accountable to defense as his first objective to them.


So I'm hoping Golden State doesn't do this dumb ass trade. Monta Ellis can play defense but he hasn't had a coach who has really made them focus on it yet. Also that man is our closer/clutch guy so I don't wanna see him leave, especially for someone like Andre Iguadola.


if u watch warriors games enough, ull notice monte always go for steal, thats not playin good defense, and the fact that he doesnt run plays to pass the ball to our interior players, thats what made AB playin without passion. when bdavis was on the team he past the ball, and monte just demand the ball too much, 40mins a game?? of course we suck in 4th quater to close out games :banghead:


tru dat! at some point, someone is either a good defender or he's not. no amount of coaching can turn a Steve Nash into a good defender, or magically give Ellis natural instincts that he just doesn't and has never possessed. Ellis isn't a rookie anymore, he's been in the league 7 yrs. sad thing is, half the time his defense is worse than a rookie's. mental mistakes, effort lapses, looking lost, etc. that's bad enough if he was of normal SG size. but he's a tweaner, which just compounds the problem. SG skills in a PG's body...so he'll always be undersized for his position because he can't play PG or lead a team. the debate to me is...is his offense so good that it makes up for his liabilities? don't think so, especially with his inflated stats. and does his scoring translate in the Win column? hasn't for his entire career, except when he had B-Diddy to carry the load.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:32 pm
You guys do realize that a lot of the reason he looks so bad on defense is because his high minutes and the fact the he caries such a huge workload offensively right? When focused and rested he is a capable 1 on 1 defender and actually gives many taller SGs fits with his foot and handspeed. Sure he will look silly on some plays where he gets burned, but don't act like the best defenders in the NBA don't get burned AT LEAST a few plays every game. Also the reason he looks lost on defense has largely to do with our scheme. His rotations are not bad at all, which is partially why he gets so many steals. It is his recovery where he gets lost, but that is the responsibility of the entire defense to communicate to him. And also to the guy who said he sucks in the 4th quarter, please read the following link and stop posting, because stats show he is actually one of the most clutch players in the league.

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM

More clutch than Kobe, Lebron, Nowitski, Rose and Durant.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:07 pm
facue420 wrote:
Pworld wrote:Mark Jackson just said on PTI he will love the opportunity to coach Monta Ellis. He said rumors will be rumors and he will make this team accountable to defense as his first objective to them.


So I'm hoping Golden State doesn't do this dumb ass trade. Monta Ellis can play defense but he hasn't had a coach who has really made them focus on it yet. Also that man is our closer/clutch guy so I don't wanna see him leave, especially for someone like Andre Iguadola.


if u watch warriors games enough, ull notice monte always go for steal, thats not playin good defense, and the fact that he doesnt run plays to pass the ball to our interior players, thats what made AB playin without passion. when bdavis was on the team he past the ball, and monte just demand the ball too much, 40mins a game?? of course we suck in 4th quater to close out games :banghead:

That HE doesn't run plays to pass the ball? Umm the coaches run the plays. AB was at his best offensively off a pick and roll not posting up so him feeding AB in the post wouldn't matter, also they could just hack a shaq AB if we did feed it to him in the post. AB playing without a passion? More like AB playing like a bitch and injured. Yeah he plays 40 mins a game, who's decision is that? The coach, not the player. Edited.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:44 pm
Only thing I can say to the negativity is...quit-yer-bitchin' because it happened and it's probably going to be like this for the next 3 years. Unpredictable and either a lot of glory or a lot of grief...we don't know yet.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:55 am
Knightofoceans wrote:Only thing I can say to the negativity is...quit-yer-bitchin' because it happened and it's probably going to be like this for the next 3 years. Unpredictable and either a lot of glory or a lot of grief...we don't know yet.

Amen. Not a fan of the hiring of "He's a star in this league" Mark Jackson, but willing to give a clean slate and hope at least for a while.
For the record, I have not always been a Monta proponent and at times have wanted him traded, but after watching him closely all year and seeing he and Stef growing together as well as with Lee, he is the heart and soul of this team and I don't wanna see him gone AT ALL.
Quit blowing leads and play a LITTLE D, and let's win 45+ and get in the goddamn playoffs then go from there!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:56 pm
maybe we can bring keith smart back to the bench for out of bounds play alone... had the best inbound plays i've seen since i've been watching basketball... seriously
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:09 pm
Can Mark Jackson get some production out of Biedrens? If he can, then the team has a chance to really improve. I recall how when Larry Brown was hired by the Pacers, he, Brown, had to reinvent Rik Smits; which he, Brown, did. Even with an undersized back court, this Warrior team has three legitimate scorers in Ellis, Curry, and D. Lee. Wright is more than serviceable. Can Jackson coach Biedrens to become a double-double again?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:30 pm
WARRIORHOG8 wrote:
Knightofoceans wrote:Only thing I can say to the negativity is...quit-yer-bitchin' because it happened and it's probably going to be like this for the next 3 years. Unpredictable and either a lot of glory or a lot of grief...we don't know yet.

Amen. Not a fan of the hiring of "He's a star in this league" Mark Jackson, but willing to give a clean slate and hope at least for a while.
For the record, I have not always been a Monta proponent and at times have wanted him traded, but after watching him closely all year and seeing he and Stef growing together as well as with Lee, he is the heart and soul of this team and I don't wanna see him gone AT ALL.
Quit blowing leads and play a LITTLE D, and let's win 45+ and get in the goddamn playoffs then go from there!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean it with lots of love :)
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:09 pm
Bottom line. Ellis DID ... repeat DID help us win games. Yes, he is not good enough to carry us to playoffs like Durant did. But Durants team sucked ass for the first 3 seasons. It wasn't until they committed to defense did they make the playoffs. We had way better records then them 3 years in a row.


Same can happen to us if we get a better commitment to defense.


Again, Ellis very much did help us win games. Compare us to the Timberwolves, without Monta we would have been on par with them or worse.
-- Warriors ----- Wolves --- Notes
PG Curry ....= .. Luke ....... Curry has more potential, Luke has more experience. Neither good defender.
SG Ellis ......> .. Johnson .. Ellis way better. Johnson is bigger.
SF Wright ..< .. Beasly ..... Beasly is better all around. Wright probably a better shooter.
PF Lee .......< .. Love ....... Lee was good, but Love was a beast this past season
C. Beans ....= .. Darko ..... Both sucked hard. Darko had his moments, Beans his, but both inconsistent
Bench ........= .. Bench ..... Williams and Udoh was our key guy, They have Webster and Randolph


We had double their win total, and the only position where we were clearly better was at SG....
If you follow this logic, then you can saw Ellis helped us win roughly 18 games.
No player no matter how good they are can carry a team if the team doesn't play defense.
When Thunder didn't make it to playoffs first couple of years, did they say, hey lets trade durant?
Following that logic then should the wolves trade Love if they don't make it to the playoffs in 2 years?


I don't think so.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:07 pm
GSW Hoops Fan wrote:Bottom line. Ellis DID ... repeat DID help us win games. Yes, he is not good enough to carry us to playoffs like Durant did. But Durants team sucked ass for the first 3 seasons. It wasn't until they committed to defense did they make the playoffs. We had way better records then them 3 years in a row.


Same can happen to us if we get a better commitment to defense.


Again, Ellis very much did help us win games. Compare us to the Timberwolves, without Monta we would have been on par with them or worse.
-- Warriors ----- Wolves --- Notes
PG Curry ....= .. Luke ....... Curry has more potential, Luke has more experience. Neither good defender.
SG Ellis ......> .. Johnson .. Ellis way better. Johnson is bigger.
SF Wright ..< .. Beasly ..... Beasly is better all around. Wright probably a better shooter.
PF Lee .......< .. Love ....... Lee was good, but Love was a beast this past season
C. Beans ....= .. Darko ..... Both sucked hard. Darko had his moments, Beans his, but both inconsistent
Bench ........= .. Bench ..... Williams and Udoh was our key guy, They have Webster and Randolph


We had double their win total, and the only position where we were clearly better was at SG....
If you follow this logic, then you can saw Ellis helped us win roughly 18 games.
No player no matter how good they are can carry a team if the team doesn't play defense.
When Thunder didn't make it to playoffs first couple of years, did they say, hey lets trade durant?
Following that logic then should the wolves trade Love if they don't make it to the playoffs in 2 years?


I don't think so.

+1, I'll buy that, except there is no way you can compare Monta to Durant.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:30 pm
JREED wrote:
GSW Hoops Fan wrote:Bottom line. Ellis DID ... repeat DID help us win games. Yes, he is not good enough to carry us to playoffs like Durant did. But Durants team sucked ass for the first 3 seasons. It wasn't until they committed to defense did they make the playoffs. We had way better records then them 3 years in a row.


Same can happen to us if we get a better commitment to defense.


Again, Ellis very much did help us win games. Compare us to the Timberwolves, without Monta we would have been on par with them or worse.
-- Warriors ----- Wolves --- Notes
PG Curry ....= .. Luke ....... Curry has more potential, Luke has more experience. Neither good defender.
SG Ellis ......> .. Johnson .. Ellis way better. Johnson is bigger.
SF Wright ..< .. Beasly ..... Beasly is better all around. Wright probably a better shooter.
PF Lee .......< .. Love ....... Lee was good, but Love was a beast this past season
C. Beans ....= .. Darko ..... Both sucked hard. Darko had his moments, Beans his, but both inconsistent
Bench ........= .. Bench ..... Williams and Udoh was our key guy, They have Webster and Randolph


We had double their win total, and the only position where we were clearly better was at SG....
If you follow this logic, then you can saw Ellis helped us win roughly 18 games.
No player no matter how good they are can carry a team if the team doesn't play defense.
When Thunder didn't make it to playoffs first couple of years, did they say, hey lets trade durant?
Following that logic then should the wolves trade Love if they don't make it to the playoffs in 2 years?


I don't think so.

+1, I'll buy that, except there is no way you can compare Monta to Durant.


i think darko >>>>> biedrins.... even though they both suck, darko protects the paint... i think he's like top 5 or 3 in blocks this season...
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:53 am
8th ave wrote:
JREED wrote:
GSW Hoops Fan wrote:Bottom line. Ellis DID ... repeat DID help us win games. Yes, he is not good enough to carry us to playoffs like Durant did. But Durants team sucked ass for the first 3 seasons. It wasn't until they committed to defense did they make the playoffs. We had way better records then them 3 years in a row.


Same can happen to us if we get a better commitment to defense.


Again, Ellis very much did help us win games. Compare us to the Timberwolves, without Monta we would have been on par with them or worse.
-- Warriors ----- Wolves --- Notes
PG Curry ....= .. Luke ....... Curry has more potential, Luke has more experience. Neither good defender.
SG Ellis ......> .. Johnson .. Ellis way better. Johnson is bigger.
SF Wright ..< .. Beasly ..... Beasly is better all around. Wright probably a better shooter.
PF Lee .......< .. Love ....... Lee was good, but Love was a beast this past season
C. Beans ....= .. Darko ..... Both sucked hard. Darko had his moments, Beans his, but both inconsistent
Bench ........= .. Bench ..... Williams and Udoh was our key guy, They have Webster and Randolph


We had double their win total, and the only position where we were clearly better was at SG....
If you follow this logic, then you can saw Ellis helped us win roughly 18 games.
No player no matter how good they are can carry a team if the team doesn't play defense.
When Thunder didn't make it to playoffs first couple of years, did they say, hey lets trade durant?
Following that logic then should the wolves trade Love if they don't make it to the playoffs in 2 years?


I don't think so.

+1, I'll buy that, except there is no way you can compare Monta to Durant.


i think darko >>>>> biedrins.... even though they both suck, darko protects the paint... i think he's like top 5 or 3 in blocks this season...


Wow, I had completely forgotten about Darko. When he was drafted, Milicic was touted as a big-man who had multi-dimensional skills. He was actually drafted ahead of both Carmelo and Bosh (and Pietrus, too)!

Do you actually believe that he would be an improvement over Biedrens or is he just another stiff from Europe?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:30 am
He would definitely be an improvement over Biedrins. Darko has a bigger body, much better defense, got some nice offensive moves as well, and is one of the best shot blockers in the league. The problem with Darko is that he is too inconsistent. One game he will have over 25 points, and the next one he will have 5. One of the reasons is that he is always rotated with some other guy, and he rarely plays over 35 minutes a game. But with more playing time, and a little bit of talking to him about his motivation for every game you can get a really good starting center. And it's not like we need him to score, he needs to play defense, and he does that. He always had some bad luck as well, in Detroit he never got the chance because of Wallace duo, then in Orlando he played alongside Dwight Howard, but he managed to get some decent numbers there. And now in Minnesota he's playing with Love who gets all of the rebounds, one of the best rebounders in the league.

So, my point is, if you work with him, and use him properly, he would be far better than Biedrins. If nothing else, his ceiling is much higher.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:32 pm
Guybrush wrote:He would definitely be an improvement over Biedrins. Darko has a bigger body, much better defense, got some nice offensive moves as well, and is one of the best shot blockers in the league. The problem with Darko is that he is too inconsistent. One game he will have over 25 points, and the next one he will have 5. One of the reasons is that he is always rotated with some other guy, and he rarely plays over 35 minutes a game. But with more playing time, and a little bit of talking to him about his motivation for every game you can get a really good starting center. And it's not like we need him to score, he needs to play defense, and he does that. He always had some bad luck as well, in Detroit he never got the chance because of Wallace duo, then in Orlando he played alongside Dwight Howard, but he managed to get some decent numbers there. And now in Minnesota he's playing with Love who gets all of the rebounds, one of the best rebounders in the league.

So, my point is, if you work with him, and use him properly, he would be far better than Biedrins. If nothing else, his ceiling is much higher.


I remember when Darko had come into the league how the media was saying how he was very multi-skilled and multi-talented. I just have not seen him play enough to make any kind of accessment.

If Darko is just lacking consistency, then, yes, that would be an improvement over Biedrens; however, when a point guard can run the pick and roll properly, Biedrens is more than serviceable on the offensive end of the floor (Biedrens and Davis ran the pick and roll beautifully).
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