Winning record next season!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:40 pm
Dr. Spaceman wrote:
BayAreaHoopz wrote:
GSW Hoops Fan wrote:Ellis is the best player on our team by far. Remove him from the team we would have been fighting the Wolves for #1 draft spot. .


And that just might be the problem. Since Ellis has become this team's best player, they've won 29, 26 and 36 games. Sure, he missed that 29 win season, at least the majority of it, but he was still getting paid right? As a business, you have to take that into consideration unless you like throwing away $11M. Interesting that they won 29 games without him and then 26 with him. Doesn't that confuse you just a little?

He has missed 19 games in the last two season. The Warriors have 8 wins and 11 losses in those 19 games. Not great, but not exactly Minnesota bad considering he did it with guys like Reggie Williams, Anthony Tolliver, Corey Maggette and Ronnie Turiaf. You take the games that Ellis did play, which is 145 games in the last two seasons...57 wins and 88 losses.


Don't just take those facts as a way to scapegoat Monta. In that season they won 29 games the team had Stephen Jackson and Jamal Crawford, both of which although no always efficiently, have shown that they have the talent to get a team around 29 wins. That team also actually had a bench that could score too, and it's best option for such wasn't Reggie Williams. Also if I'm not mistaken the Lakers had a pretty damn good record with Kobe out of the lineup last year. Does that mean they were a better team without one of the greatest SGs of all time? HELL NO!

Last year with our most injuries in franchise history and his second best player by far being a rookie we only lost 3 more games than the year before. If you do the math correctly, it wasn't the addition of Monta that made the team lose 3 more games. Monta and Curry prevented the team from being worse than the Nets.

This year we won 10 more games, and with him as the leader and showed more toughness than we have in years during certain stretches (Nothing great, but we had a few streaks of holding quality opponents to less than 100 points. And won more than a few games where we scored less than 100 points. Something we never would have done in the past few years. Now I can't credit this all to Monta, since offseason additions and a coaching change helped in that regard, but those are the signs of growth you want from a young team.

Last time I checked he was not getting posted up every game, so his height and weight shouldn't be considered a huge factor. Add this to the fact that our backcourt constantly outperformed other teams backcourts throughout the year. What we need to improve upon is our defensive rotations down low, as we constantly get outshot at the foul line and send our best bigs to the bench for undisciplined (partly due to our reputation) forcing us to play undersized a majority of the time. Combine that with the fact that putting others on the line and slowing it down takes away a huge advantage we try to gain over other teams by forcing the tempo. This is why we need a legitimate defensive coach, who runs a defensive system that has proven to work in the NBA. Oh yeah drafting a legit SF so we can bring in Wright off the bench, along with improving the bench should help a lot too.

Who are the Warriors going to get to be a defense force in the key? Their money mostly in David lee, Monta, and AB and none of them are defensive presence. If they want a defensive center or PF they need to pay at least 11 mill per year to get that one player in FA market. They are not going to draft a big man to play defensive center, because it takes a long time to develop one to play in the NBA. Unless they find a gem in draft who can play defense in Center spot right away, but those are very rare. Lacob wants to win now so he going to the FA to get the big man, but with the new CBA will Lacob have enough money to get the Big center against other team who will be wanting the Centers service? Monta been on this team for awhile now and as his role increase the team hasn't been winning. He is not a great player because his skill set does not offset the team weakness to produce more wins for this team. Look get 10 wins is not a big deal coming from 26-36 not to me, because we have seen it before for awhile now. I will be impress if the team goes to near mid 40s and above in the West in the coming season. You can get a coach to preach defense philosophy, but in the end it the players who actually playing defense and I don't know if any player on this roster who can play that tough and smart defense.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:41 am
Its a mirage when you talk about Monta Ellis. Yes, he was 3rd in steals with 2.1, but that doesn't make him a good or average defender. He goes for way too many steals and most of the time, he doesn't get them. Ellis was 8th in the league in scoring, but lead the league in field goal attempts (20.1) and minutes (40.3). Carmelo Anthony averaged more points while playing more than 5 minutes less and taking less shots a game. Maybe Anthony isn't a great example so lets use someone who doesn't have a big name. Kevin Martin averages a half point less than Ellis playing 8 minutes less while taking 5 less shots a game. Ellis also leads all shooting guards in turnovers with 3.2 a game while Stephen Curry averages less turnovers and more assists than Monta. No one posts up Ellis because they don't need to. They usually can just go right around him.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:04 pm
BayAreaHoopz wrote:Its a mirage when you talk about Monta Ellis. Yes, he was 3rd in steals with 2.1, but that doesn't make him a good or average defender. He goes for way too many steals and most of the time, he doesn't get them. Ellis was 8th in the league in scoring, but lead the league in field goal attempts (20.1) and minutes (40.3). Carmelo Anthony averaged more points while playing more than 5 minutes less and taking less shots a game. Maybe Anthony isn't a great example so lets use someone who doesn't have a big name. Kevin Martin averages a half point less than Ellis playing 8 minutes less while taking 5 less shots a game. Ellis also leads all shooting guards in turnovers with 3.2 a game while Stephen Curry averages less turnovers and more assists than Monta. No one posts up Ellis because they don't need to. They usually can just go right around him.


+1,

BUT I think Monta can be taught to
a) stop clogging/stagnating the offense
b) play better on ball defense (he certainly has the speed)
c) take less shots...or at least better shots - can we PLEASE see that stepback mid range jumper back

all the above can be taught through videotape handled by a good coach
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:09 pm
a, b, & c are all things Monta should know by now. he ain't a young pup anymore. at some point it "is what it is." I don't expect Monta to have transformative gains in skills at his age.

I look at a few things:

- he's been given the opportunity to be the man, w/endless freedom, but he hasn't elevated the Warriors to ANYWHERE, and it hasnt' translated to Wins.
- his defense is a liability on a roster where Curry & D-Lee (Lee got better during the end) are already defensive liabilities.
- his trade value is high right now
- for 1/3 of the games this season, his FG% was Under 40%. that wouldn't be so bad of a problem if he didn't LEAD THE NBA in shot attempts.
- his PER stats are not great
- his minutes played + shot attempts inflate his numbers.

I hope the Warriors pursue trading him for someone like Joe Johnson or Iggy. A Curry/Joe Johnson backcourt would be siick.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:01 pm
dang...never noticed that FG%....wheeeeeeeew thats hard to argue against



EDIT: 0.451% isn't too bad actually. :|
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 6:36 pm
I think Dwight wants out of Orlando...

I say we break the bank with a Monta & future first round picks trade for him (throw in Beans so whoever coaches Orlando can still play that "Don't let our Centre go to the FT line" gameplan.
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:36 am
PAWNO wrote:I think Dwight wants out of Orlando...

I say we break the bank with a Monta & future first round picks trade for him (throw in Beans so whoever coaches Orlando can still play that "Don't let our Centre go to the FT line" gameplan.




Dwight would want to go to a contender, but going with the trade attempt to get him, it'd take a good big from our end, if not two, as well as Monta to even try to get him. Lee would have to be in the package, as well as Monta and to be honest, I wouldn't want to give up any more than those two, which are two of the best three player we have. Throw in AB for Arenas or something similar for salaries to work and I'd do it. AB is a serviceable Center still anyway. Replacing Monta would have to be a must and through free agency maybe it could be done
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:26 pm
Dwight would come if we also got Paul. I would tank the hole team to get those two. With craps beside them we are in the playoffs. In 2-3 years we could be contenders.
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:46 pm
-_-

some of yall forget how much we suck.... paul and dwight aint ever coming here....... period...
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:14 pm
TRON wrote:Dwight would come if we also got Paul. I would tank the hole team to get those two. With craps beside them we are in the playoffs. In 2-3 years we could be contenders.


seriously, what kinda **** have u been smoking???? i need some of that. what makes u think other teams will take AB or monte if a suck team like warriors dont even want em two?? keep it real, only warriors FO will pick suck teams left overs, like that useless scumbag al thorton, radman, ace laws, bell..... :banghead:
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:47 am
Monta probably won't bring them back a star quality player like Howard. Guys like Eddie Jordan don't even have Ellis in his top 25 players in the NBA list, but has Westbrook on there. People outside of the Bay Area, don't think much of Ellis at least not as much as Warriors fans do. The only think you can wish for is to grab a young talent for Ellis to a team that needs scoring. The Sixers need exactly that with Holiday leading the team in scoring during the playoffs with 14.1 ppg.

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:03 am
yikes i mean sorry to say, but the magic arent trading howard, a perennial all-star big for anything less than a promising big. that puts the lakers in play with bynum (duh, yuck), and a select few others if any... quit thinking a small guard and a bag of peanuts will lure us a player like that! not going to happen! warriors have to get lucky in the draft, thats what it comes down to... look at all of the other teams who've gotten legit bigs over the years...
"Losing is inevitably close to winning," Guber said. "They're inches apart. Drama. If you have drama, you've got a ticket to sell." "They're not real fans," Lacob said. "They don't have season tickets."
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:20 am
warchief wrote:yikes i mean sorry to say, but the magic arent trading howard, a perennial all-star big for anything less than a promising big. that puts the lakers in play with bynum (duh, yuck), and a select few others if any... quit thinking a small guard and a bag of peanuts will lure us a player like that! not going to happen! warriors have to get lucky in the draft, thats what it comes down to... look at all of the other teams who've gotten legit bigs over the years...



I do see the Lakers getting Dwight and for Bynum and fillers. It all depends on the CBA lockout
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:21 am
BayAreaHoopz wrote:Monta probably won't bring them back a star quality player like Howard. Guys like Eddie Jordan don't even have Ellis in his top 25 players in the NBA list, but has Westbrook on there. People outside of the Bay Area, don't think much of Ellis at least not as much as Warriors fans do. The only think you can wish for is to grab a young talent for Ellis to a team that needs scoring. The Sixers need exactly that with Holiday leading the team in scoring during the playoffs with 14.1 ppg.



I've been saying Monta's over valued for a while now, but I do think many GMs do value him highly, at least enough to make a trade and get very good players in return
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:24 am
TRON wrote:Dwight would come if we also got Paul. I would tank the hole team to get those two. With craps beside them we are in the playoffs. In 2-3 years we could be contenders.



If the FO could get Paul AND him be willining to actually stay and play here, then other moves would be much easier in improving the team, but that is quite an IF. I'd much rather go for another very good big, not Dwight as he is a superstar and much harder and more expensive to get. Horford would be great, but MGasol has been showing he is much better than what he was during the season in the playoffs and that justifies my wanting of him for over a year and a half now. Getting him might not be so hard, though getting harder with every good playoff performance he has
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