D. Lee earning his keep?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:15 am
Lee IS part of the problem as with the rest of the team. $80M for a guy that can't defend or post up? Well, he can rebound right? I admit that 9.4 a game is pretty good, but the fact that Biedrins isn't a good rebounder and plays 20 mpg, he should be closer to 11 or 12 a game. At the same time, he has value to a team that already has a post presence at center with defense surrounding him. One team that comes to mind is Indiana and Bird's desire for white PFs like Hansborough and McRoberts. Neither has established themselves a starter, but Lee could be the player he's looking for to pair with a up-and-rising Roy Hibbert. Would Bird give up Danny Granger for Lee straight up? Annually, they make nearly the same amount of money and they drafted Paul George with their 10th overall pick last year, who has a similar game to Granger. George, Lee and Hibbert would form a nice front court. Udoh may not be the offensive player of a David Lee, but he's exactly what this team needs at the PF spot. Someone who isn't going to demand the ball, rebound and play tough defense. This move would put Wright on the bench where he would be valuable in adding depth to this team with scoring and defense.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:54 pm
This team needs a hi scoring PF and stop scoring exclusively from the outside. Playing defense to our team is easy because of that. Udoh will be a good bench PF but we need a Kemp like PF with average defense, and a monster defender/rebounder in center.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:40 pm
BayAreaHoopz wrote:Lee IS part of the problem as with the rest of the team. $80M for a guy that can't defend or post up? Well, he can rebound right? I admit that 9.4 a game is pretty good, but the fact that Biedrins isn't a good rebounder and plays 20 mpg, he should be closer to 11 or 12 a game. At the same time, he has value to a team that already has a post presence at center with defense surrounding him. One team that comes to mind is Indiana and Bird's desire for white PFs like Hansborough and McRoberts. Neither has established themselves a starter, but Lee could be the player he's looking for to pair with a up-and-rising Roy Hibbert. Would Bird give up Danny Granger for Lee straight up? Annually, they make nearly the same amount of money and they drafted Paul George with their 10th overall pick last year, who has a similar game to Granger. George, Lee and Hibbert would form a nice front court. Udoh may not be the offensive player of a David Lee, but he's exactly what this team needs at the PF spot. Someone who isn't going to demand the ball, rebound and play tough defense. This move would put Wright on the bench where he would be valuable in adding depth to this team with scoring and defense.


Your analysis is spot on.

I have a few questions:

1. Do the salaries of Granger and Lee match up well (necessary for a trade like this to happen (unless other players have to be included)?

2. Are you proposing a frontcourt of Granger, Udoh, and Biedrens? If so, I am concerned about the lack of scoring from both the power forward as well as the center position.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:05 pm
uptempo wrote:I have a few questions:

1. Do the salaries of Granger and Lee match up well (necessary for a trade like this to happen (unless other players have to be included)?

2. Are you proposing a frontcourt of Granger, Udoh, and Biedrens? If so, I am concerned about the lack of scoring from both the power forward as well as the center position.


After this season is over, David Lee will be making $11.6M for the year. Danny Granger will be at $12M so the trade does work out straight up.

As for your #2 question, I'm not sure they need scorers from the PF or C spot. They already have a hard enough time getting David Lee shots with Curry and Ellis taking more than half the team's attempts. You add a Danny Granger in there, who likes to take 15-17 shots a game, then I think thats all the scoring they'd need. Udoh has shown flashes of a post game, which surprised me, and I think he'd be good for few inside points a game.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:19 pm
BayAreaHoopz wrote:
uptempo wrote:I have a few questions:

1. Do the salaries of Granger and Lee match up well (necessary for a trade like this to happen (unless other players have to be included)?

2. Are you proposing a frontcourt of Granger, Udoh, and Biedrens? If so, I am concerned about the lack of scoring from both the power forward as well as the center position.


After this season is over, David Lee will be making $11.6M for the year. Danny Granger will be at $12M so the trade does work out straight up.

As for your #2 question, I'm not sure they need scorers from the PF or C spot. They already have a hard enough time getting David Lee shots with Curry and Ellis taking more than half the team's attempts. You add a Danny Granger in there, who likes to take 15-17 shots a game, then I think thats all the scoring they'd need. Udoh has shown flashes of a post game, which surprised me, and I think he'd be good for few inside points a game.




Getting Granger would not help the team at all, just like he isn't helping Indiana win much now. Maybe the guy would be good with a star big, but that isn't known yet. Any trading of Lee would and should be for another big, be it a PF or Center, just one that offers more than him, at least in total, meaning defensively more than anything. A guy like Horford would be a great trade for Lee and I'd do something like Monta and Lee for Horford, JSmith and filler, maybe get Hinrich from them as well and add someone like DWright and a future 1st rounder from our end
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:52 pm
You really have to think about what a team is willing to move. Horford is pretty much the #1 priority for the Hawks. They'll let Josh Smith go before they let Horford go. Every other elite PF or C isn't going to be moved for a PF that isn't in an elite class like David Lee, not at his price tag. The best bet is to move him to a team that needs a PF which Indiana is. They're not going to give up Roy Hibbert and Granger is a duplicate player of value.

Another move would be David Lee and Monta Ellis to the Sixers for Elton Brand, Evan Turner and Mareese Speights. The Sixers keep Iguodala and add a #1 scorer in Ellis. David Lee takes over the PF spot. Holiday, Ellis, Iguodala, Lee and Hawes can work in the East. The Sixers are happy to get rid of Brand's contract. The Warriors get a nice young talent in Evan Turner, who has Joe Johnson type potential, and he would be the perfect backcourt mate to Curry.

How hard would it be for the Warriors to get rid of Biedrins? It might be tough, but I think if they can attach the unprotected pick from the upcoming draft, I think a team like Atlanta could bite. They need a center to be able to move Horford to the 4 and get a lottery pick to be a kicker. Who should the Warriors get? Josh Smith. Marvin Williams is a SF as well and with a center like Biedrins in there, they maybe inclined to move Smith. A lottery pick could land them a new PG as well.

Starters: Curry, Turner, Smith, Brand and Udoh

A much better rebounding and defensive line up which is something that can be built around.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:47 pm
I can't say that isn't intriguing at least...but pretty much, all of that will depend of how Evan Turner develops, cause he hasn't been so great so far.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:41 am
BayAreaHoopz wrote:You really have to think about what a team is willing to move. Horford is pretty much the #1 priority for the Hawks. They'll let Josh Smith go before they let Horford go. Every other elite PF or C isn't going to be moved for a PF that isn't in an elite class like David Lee, not at his price tag. The best bet is to move him to a team that needs a PF which Indiana is. They're not going to give up Roy Hibbert and Granger is a duplicate player of value.

Another move would be David Lee and Monta Ellis to the Sixers for Elton Brand, Evan Turner and Mareese Speights. The Sixers keep Iguodala and add a #1 scorer in Ellis. David Lee takes over the PF spot. Holiday, Ellis, Iguodala, Lee and Hawes can work in the East. The Sixers are happy to get rid of Brand's contract. The Warriors get a nice young talent in Evan Turner, who has Joe Johnson type potential, and he would be the perfect backcourt mate to Curry.

How hard would it be for the Warriors to get rid of Biedrins? It might be tough, but I think if they can attach the unprotected pick from the upcoming draft, I think a team like Atlanta could bite. They need a center to be able to move Horford to the 4 and get a lottery pick to be a kicker. Who should the Warriors get? Josh Smith. Marvin Williams is a SF as well and with a center like Biedrins in there, they maybe inclined to move Smith. A lottery pick could land them a new PG as well.

Starters: Curry, Turner, Smith, Brand and Udoh

A much better rebounding and defensive line up which is something that can be built around.


Why would you want an injury prone non-theltic Brand. CBA talent Speights and an unproven tweener in Turner? Get real please here.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:14 am
The Coooach wrote:
BayAreaHoopz wrote:You really have to think about what a team is willing to move. Horford is pretty much the #1 priority for the Hawks. They'll let Josh Smith go before they let Horford go. Every other elite PF or C isn't going to be moved for a PF that isn't in an elite class like David Lee, not at his price tag. The best bet is to move him to a team that needs a PF which Indiana is. They're not going to give up Roy Hibbert and Granger is a duplicate player of value.

Another move would be David Lee and Monta Ellis to the Sixers for Elton Brand, Evan Turner and Mareese Speights. The Sixers keep Iguodala and add a #1 scorer in Ellis. David Lee takes over the PF spot. Holiday, Ellis, Iguodala, Lee and Hawes can work in the East. The Sixers are happy to get rid of Brand's contract. The Warriors get a nice young talent in Evan Turner, who has Joe Johnson type potential, and he would be the perfect backcourt mate to Curry.

How hard would it be for the Warriors to get rid of Biedrins? It might be tough, but I think if they can attach the unprotected pick from the upcoming draft, I think a team like Atlanta could bite. They need a center to be able to move Horford to the 4 and get a lottery pick to be a kicker. Who should the Warriors get? Josh Smith. Marvin Williams is a SF as well and with a center like Biedrins in there, they maybe inclined to move Smith. A lottery pick could land them a new PG as well.

Starters: Curry, Turner, Smith, Brand and Udoh

A much better rebounding and defensive line up which is something that can be built around.


Why would you want an injury prone non-theltic Brand. CBA talent Speights and an unproven tweener in Turner? Get real please here.




Yea, we give up alot and get practically nothing in return.

I do think Atlanta could bite, at least in giving JSmith, a player I really like and who is very unguardable by opposition PFs, a position he has shown he can play on both ends
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:24 pm
Figured I'd give this thread a bump in light of him outplaying some of the best forwards in the west recently. This is what we thought we were getting with that $80 million contract. Lets hope he can carry this success over into next season (if there is a season). With him playing up to his allstar potential and Udoh inside we might be able actually play some competent D - consistently.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:02 am
Not worth the money. He just isn't enough to makeup for his deficiency defensively
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:53 pm
migya wrote:Not worth the money. He just isn't enough to makeup for his deficiency defensively


Actually, he has been playing great 1 on 1 Defense lately. He even has had a couple nice blocks. He is not just out scoring and out rebounding some of the opposing PF's, he is limiting their touches. It is amazing what a difference it makes if he doesn't have to constantly leave his guy to help on someone else. I think a big part of it is that the PF and C are switching nicely. When Lee does rotate, Udoh and Amoundson have been rotating to his guy.... watch the defense next couple of games... it's been really improved as of late (hopefully they keep it up for the last 3 games).
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:04 pm
Elton Brand has been injury prone in his last years in LA and first year in Philly, but he has been pretty durable since. He finished last season with 76 games and will surpass that total this season. Its funny how people always say that Elton Brand is a shell of hiimself and in many ways, its true. So here is the big problem with Lee, since he's supposedly in his prime...

Elton Brand : 14.9 points, 8.4 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.3 blocks and 51% FG
David Lee : 16.5 points, 9.8 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 0.4 blocks and 50% FG

There is a difference, but not a big difference and that 1.3 blocks a game from Brand would help this team.

As for his contract, I think the Warriors were expecting 20 points and 11 rebounds (like his numbers in NY) when they gave him $80M, so I'm not sure you can say he has been exactly what they were expecting.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:25 pm
offensively, you cant ask for more. but defense is the problem....you cant even COMPARE brand to lee in D
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:45 pm
IMO, Lee has been doing work on the Defensive side lately.

Even he himself said that he has a long way to go on improving his defensive game. He has been playing pretty good D lately.
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