#32 wrote: Richardson, Davis, Pietrus, Ellis, and Fisher aren't better than Billips, Hamilton, Arroyo, Evans, and Hunter...??!!!

For entertainment...Warriors. To win...Pistons. Billups and Hamilton put up good stats AND they win, that's good enough for me.

This isn't a TEAM thing, this is purely the back court!!!

Think a 2-on-2 tourney!!!

TMC wrote:We do not have the best backcourt, and if we do, then I don't want to have the best backcourt, but a balanced team. How can it be that the best backcourt in the league can't even lead its team to .500?

There was a thread about this some time ago. I stand by my pick then. And that was...

Detroit. Be it chemistry, the system or whatever... Those reasons also play a part. If you leave them aside, you'll be picking the most talented backcourt, not the best.

I agree, though talentwise it goes to Baron and JRich! Right now, the Pistons guards are a bit better than the Spurs guards

#32 wrote:This isn't a TEAM thing, this is purely the back court!!!

Think a 2-on-2 tourney!!!

I know. Billups and Hamilton would win.

Califongia wrote:

#32 wrote:This isn't a TEAM thing, this is purely the back court!!!

Think a 2-on-2 tourney!!!

I know. Billups and Hamilton would win.

Not sure about that. Too close to tell. The Pistons backcourt has less flaws than ours (better defence, above everything else). But in a 2-on-2 anything can happen...

Califongia wrote:I know. Billups and Hamilton would win.

This is gonna go on for days...

Baron Davis and J Richardson vs Chauncy Billups and R Hamilton in a 2 on 2?

You have to remember Baron Davis is a playground legend in the LA area and J Richardson is a monster...remember two years ago when he threw his girlfriend's head at the wall??

So, lets see... BD matching up with Chauncey...Baron Davis easily. Not even a real contest.

Jrich vs Plastic Face Boy...enough said. it's like Warrior vs PansyBoy.

Detriot is only great because they've played so long together with the same unit and there backcourt comfortably fits the frontcourt., the backcourt takes off pressure on the frontcourt which makes the defense get to the perimeter D more because their backcourt is so efficient.

BT wrote:Baron Davis and J Richardson vs Chauncy Billups and R Hamilton in a 2 on 2?

You have to remember Baron Davis is a playground legend in the LA area and J Richardson is a monster...remember two years ago when he threw his girlfriend's head at the wall??

So, lets see... BD matching up with Chauncey...Baron Davis easily. Not even a real contest.

Jrich vs Plastic Face Boy...enough said. it's like Warrior vs PansyBoy.

Detriot is only great because they've played so long together with the same unit and there backcourt comfortably fits the frontcourt., the backcourt takes off pressure on the frontcourt which makes the defense get to the perimeter D more because their backcourt is so efficient.

FINALLY, somebody who understands! Billips and Hamilton are nothing special; they're on a good team, so they're talent is majorly inflated! Look at how "great" Chauncey Billips was when he was on other teams! He was average, at best! The system is great; the players are average! Thank you, BT, for finally seeing the truth!

I've never denied the system and time playing together play a big part, but it also counts. Of course Baron and J-Rich are more talented, but that doesn't make them better as a backcourt.

My point is that I don't think Baron would do as well in Detroit as Billups, and probably Billups would only look average in our team. But, as of now, I still pick Detroit's backcourt above ours (for the NBA).

Any player who played an unselfish style of ball, with the coach's game in mind instead of their own, would succeed in Detroit. Usually, when a player can't think outside of what the coach tells them, it means they're handicapped. In Detroit, they're labeled "great"... Most of these players wouldn't be anything on other teams. The back court itself is not great; the system is. The team is. The former coach was. The current coach is (or, at least, he's a damn good one). The back court?.... Not so much. The reason the Piston's back court is successful relies (quite heavily) on it's coaching and front court. They wouldn't be able to stand on their own two feet away from the system, which means that they can't be the best.

#32 wrote: The reason the Piston's back court is successful relies (quite heavily) on it's coaching and front court. They wouldn't be able to stand on their own two feet away from the system, which means that they can't be the best.

This is the last thing I have to say about this issue, but you are not giving Billups and Hamilton enough credit. If the Pistons did not have these two guys, they would NOT be doing as well as they are. They are just as important to that team as the Wallaces'

They weren't doing as well with other teams before, but players evolve. Gary Payton wasn't great at first, but he evolved into a great player. These two guys are on the top of their game now. I'm done.

Califongia wrote:This is the last thing I have to say about this issue, but you are not giving Billups and Hamilton enough credit. If the Pistons did not have these two guys, they would NOT be doing as well as they are. They are just as important to that team as the Wallaces'

They weren't doing as well with other teams before, but players evolve. Gary Payton wasn't great at first, but he evolved into a great player. These two guys are on the top of their game now. I'm done.

Yeah, I also think like that. If there's anyone overrated in the Pistons right now, that's Flip Saunders. He came to a team already done, with the right players and without any need of tweaking. He just has to keep them happy and enjoy the show...

Califongia wrote:They weren't doing as well with other teams before, but players evolve. Gary Payton wasn't great at first, but he evolved into a great player. These two guys are on the top of their game now. I'm done.

Gary Payton took 3, maybe 4 years, before he became a star (and it was all on the same team, too!). Detroit is Chauncey Billips' 5th team so far in his career (and he was never anything on any of his other squads). I think it's safe to assume that without the team, Billips would be helpless. He's already proven it in his career.

And, TMC, if anything, Flip Saunders is the only guy on the team whose NOT over-rated. Under Larry Brown, the team became great. After they learned to play together at a legenday level, Flip came in and managed to take all that team communication and fluidness and turn it into individual career season for every player. That's genius, if you ask me. He's also the guy who helped KG develop amazingly fast, gave Tom Gugliotta (a scrub by all other team's definition) a few career seasons, and turned Troy Hudson into a playoff sharp-shooter. Tons of players have career seasons under Flip Saunders. He's one of the more under-rated coaches in the league, if you ask me.

#32 wrote:And, TMC, if anything, Flip Saunders is the only guy on the team whose NOT over-rated. Under Larry Brown, the team became great. After they learned to play together at a legenday level, Flip came in and managed to take all that team communication and fluidness and turn it into individual career season for every player. That's genius, if you ask me. He's also the guy who helped KG develop amazingly fast, gave Tom Gugliotta (a scrub by all other team's definition) a few career seasons, and turned Troy Hudson into a playoff sharp-shooter. Tons of players have career seasons under Flip Saunders. He's one of the more under-rated coaches in the league, if you ask me.

He also chokes in the playoffs year after year. And his rotations are usually pretty bad (except in Detroit, but it was already made). I think he's a good coach getting ready for games, gameplanning and all that. But he sucks in the middle of games. Too slow to adapt to situations different from the original gameplan.

I'm only talking form what I've seen in his Minny days. He's looking better in Detroit, but I think it's more due to having the team in place than his own work.

I agree that his playoff tactics are usually predictable and dry. But his methods, during the season, always produce results.