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Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:03 pm

another Monta possibility I like:

Monta and Randolph for Gay and Gasol. Gay would have to be a sign and trade. I'm guessing he'll want 10+ million a year, which would put him in Monta's salary range. He'll also want at least a 4-5 year deal, which again is in Monta's 5 year current contract range. So cap-wise, the salaries would/could match up pretty well. Gasol makes about 1.5 million more than Randolph, both with 2 years remaining.

Giving up Monta for Gay I'm ok with. Giving up Randolph for Gasol is a tossup, as Gasol is better now but AR has arguably a higher ceiling. But how long can we wait to find out what that ceiling is?

It also gives the Warriors flexibility to move Biedrins, who I like alot but seems to be on his way out. It also means the end of Maggette, or at least the end of him starting. It resolves the Monta issue with a player arguably as good.

Possible Warriors starters:

Curry
Williams
Gay
Wright
Gasol

bench: Maggette, Kelenna, Turiaf, VladRad (next years trade chip), #6

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Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:25 pm

MCJackintheBox wrote:another Monta possibility I like:

Monta and Randolph for Gay and Gasol. Gay would have to be a sign and trade. I'm guessing he'll want 10+ million a year, which would put him in Monta's salary range. He'll also want at least a 4-5 year deal, which again is in Monta's 5 year current contract range. So cap-wise, the salaries would/could match up pretty well. Gasol makes about 1.5 million more than Randolph, both with 2 years remaining.

Giving up Monta for Gay I'm ok with. Giving up Randolph for Gasol is a tossup, as Gasol is better now but AR has arguably a higher ceiling. But how long can we wait to find out what that ceiling is?

It also gives the Warriors flexibility to move Biedrins, who I like alot but seems to be on his way out. It also means the end of Maggette, or at least the end of him starting. It resolves the Monta issue with a player arguably as good.

Possible Warriors starters:

Curry
Williams
Gay
Wright
Gasol

bench: Maggette, Kelenna, Turiaf, VladRad (next years trade chip), #6

I don't know. Gay isn't a very good defender, and I think the Grizz would want a lot more than this for Gasol. B.Wright, as much as I like him looks too frail to play PF.

I'm all for trading for Marc Gasol but I think we'd probably have to give up too much to do it.

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Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:45 pm

MCJackintheBox wrote: Giving up Randolph for Gasol is a tossup, as Gasol is better now but AR has arguably a higher ceiling. But how long can we wait to find out what that ceiling is?

LOVE the trade of Randolph for Gasol MC. Really addresses a big need for us. However I would be a bit concerned about our lack of PF. After this trade I would move Anthony Morrow to the Spurs for Tim Duncan. Yeah, I know what you are saying... "Duncan is getting up there in years. How much more does he have left?"

I think he has another several solid years left, but we do lose some youth... but I will address that later.

Secondly, we all know how important Curry is to our offense, and when he leaves the game, our play declines. We also know how his game has been compared to Nash. So I say we trade Kelena Azubuike to the Suns for Nash for those moments that Curry is not on the floor. This way we dont lose a beat!

But I am sure you guys are saying to yourself, WOW, we sure did get old there with those trades. Yeah, we did, but I think we need the veteran presense that both Duncan and Nash provide. I know, hefty price to give up Azu and Morrow... but you gotta give to get in this league.

But to address the getting old thing, I think getting Duncan makes Anthony Tolliver expendible so as tough as it is to say (cause I really did love his hustle) I would trade him for 3 future first round picks.

I think these moves both make us better today AND set us up for the future.

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MCJackintheBox MCJackintheBox's Profile Rookie Posts: 173 Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:26 pm Location: Santa Cruz, CA Poster Credit: 0	Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 9:27 pm so bada, are you just being sarcastic? i can't tell.
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Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 11:22 pm

bada wrote:
MCJackintheBox wrote: Giving up Randolph for Gasol is a tossup, as Gasol is better now but AR has arguably a higher ceiling. But how long can we wait to find out what that ceiling is?

LOVE the trade of Randolph for Gasol MC. Really addresses a big need for us. However I would be a bit concerned about our lack of PF. After this trade I would move Anthony Morrow to the Spurs for Tim Duncan. Yeah, I know what you are saying... "Duncan is getting up there in years. How much more does he have left?"

I think he has another several solid years left, but we do lose some youth... but I will address that later.

Secondly, we all know how important Curry is to our offense, and when he leaves the game, our play declines. We also know how his game has been compared to Nash. So I say we trade Kelena Azubuike to the Suns for Nash for those moments that Curry is not on the floor. This way we dont lose a beat!

But I am sure you guys are saying to yourself, WOW, we sure did get old there with those trades. Yeah, we did, but I think we need the veteran presense that both Duncan and Nash provide. I know, hefty price to give up Azu and Morrow... but you gotta give to get in this league.

But to address the getting old thing, I think getting Duncan makes Anthony Tolliver expendible so as tough as it is to say (cause I really did love his hustle) I would trade him for 3 future first round picks.

I think these moves both make us better today AND set us up for the future.

-starts clapping-
Yes, MC

~LilBallerx~

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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 2:17 am

bada wrote:
MCJackintheBox wrote: Giving up Randolph for Gasol is a tossup, as Gasol is better now but AR has arguably a higher ceiling. But how long can we wait to find out what that ceiling is?

LOVE the trade of Randolph for Gasol MC. Really addresses a big need for us. However I would be a bit concerned about our lack of PF. After this trade I would move Anthony Morrow to the Spurs for Tim Duncan. Yeah, I know what you are saying... "Duncan is getting up there in years. How much more does he have left?"

I think he has another several solid years left, but we do lose some youth... but I will address that later.

Secondly, we all know how important Curry is to our offense, and when he leaves the game, our play declines. We also know how his game has been compared to Nash. So I say we trade Kelena Azubuike to the Suns for Nash for those moments that Curry is not on the floor. This way we dont lose a beat!

But I am sure you guys are saying to yourself, WOW, we sure did get old there with those trades. Yeah, we did, but I think we need the veteran presense that both Duncan and Nash provide. I know, hefty price to give up Azu and Morrow... but you gotta give to get in this league.

But to address the getting old thing, I think getting Duncan makes Anthony Tolliver expendible so as tough as it is to say (cause I really did love his hustle) I would trade him for 3 future first round picks.

I think these moves both make us better today AND set us up for the future.

lol

he's losing it folkes!

:P

uptempo wrote:Dude, why are you so obsessed with Mullin?

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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:31 am

bada wrote:
War Years wrote:Chum said:
"
There is no center in the NBA or NCAA that can shut down every big every night. It just doesn't happen"

Truer words never said. I can't speak with any authority about Aldrich. It would be nice to see someone in our starting lineup that's noted for his defensive play.

Chum said:
but I don't think you can get a whole lot more one dimensional than Love. He's a rebounder. Done.

Thing about Love is that though he is a very good rebounder and pretty good passer, he really isn't that great at anything else, especially shotblocking

I realize you corrected those statements. I would ask once again you and Migya, what's with the shot blocking stat? We already have 3 shotblockers, 4 if you include AB. What's wrong with actually getting the ball and retaining a possession for your team????
Ok, Love is an average low post defender. I would say he's better than a "very good rebounder" and is bound to get better. And after all isn't rebounding and defense what we're weak at?

But I thought it might be fun to compare the big men we banter about making trades for, using a little more involved stats.. Not with the purpose of saying one is clearly better than the rest. But in the means of comparing their games.
Let's talk about rebounding first , then we'll expand the profile. Among the 4 players we've talked about trading, 3 are currently centers and one (Love) is a PF. I think Love could be used as a Center as he's about the same build with a little more weight than AB.. As far as rebounds, it will sound like I'm making a case for Love, but other stats later will broaden the picture. All cases where a player ranks among the top 10 in the NBA in one category, for their position are noted.

Total Rebound Rate-TRR
Love----------21.4
Horford-------17.0
Jefferson-----15.9
M. Gasol------15.2
Love is rated 2nd among PF's in the NBA in total rebound rate.

Offensive rebound rate-ORR (one of our weakest team stats )
Love-----------14.5
M. Gasol--------9.8
Horford---------9.6
Jefferson-------8.0
Love is ranked first among PF in the NBA in Offensive rebound rate.

Defensive Rebound rate----DRR
Love----------- 28.6
Jefferson-------24.1
Horford---------23.3
M. Gasol--------20.5
Love is ranked third among PF's in the NBA in Defensive Rebound Rate

Assist Rate-------AR
Horford---------- 14.80
M. Gasol----------14.78
Love--------------13.33
Jefferson----------9.11
Horford and M. Gasol rank 9th and 10th in the NBA among Centers in AR.

In talking about the future direction of the Warriors. There are several directions we could go. For example Migya propsed a trade that would net us M. Gasol and Z. Randolph. That trade would greatly affect the direction of our team. I would like to keep certain aspects of Warrior basketball in tact. Mostly because we've already built a team in a certain direction, and I feel with the proper bigs we could continue an exciting brand of basketball. IMO, Having a center who can assist is a good part of this scheme. Horford, M. Gasol and Love all have good assist rates for big men. This stat supports a contention I have that Jefferson is a "black hole" that is, he almost never passes out, never makes any of his teammates better.

Usage Rate-----USG
Jefferson--------24.4
Love-------------22.3
Horford---------17.60
M. Gasol--------16.87
Jefferson ranks 4th in the league in usage rate. Love is not way far behind but Love does assist his teammates. Jefferson wants the ball so he can shoot it, which would be ok but.....

True Shooting %-----TS%
M. Gasol----------- 61.7
Horford-------------59.3
Love----------------54.9
Jefferson-----------52.5
Jefferson makes the fewest points per shot taking in consideration free throws and 3 point shots than any of the others. So he takes the ball more and yields fewer points. He's right down there with Monta as one of the NBA's biggest ball hogs.
M. Gasol ranks 6th among Centers in the NBA in TS%, and Horford ranks 10th. Both very efficient shooters because they don't try to make shots they can't make. ( i.e Usage rate only 16.87 and 17.60 respectively. )
I'd love to get Gasol and /or Horford, I just think a trade for LOve is much more likely.

awesome post and research War! LOVE IT!!!

Dont let migya see this though... it will ruin his image of horford being a "no skill" player!

Hmm, yes, my words should not hurt your love for Horford Bada :mrgreen:

What those stats show, and thanks for the hard work War years, is that AJefferson is not good for the team, more for his lack of passing than anything else. If he was before this season, he'd have much more value, but even then, his lack of passing makes him less of a fit in for us.

MGasol looks the best, as I have always said, he is the one I've wanted all the time, a bit of spanish matador for us :mrgreen:

Getting the trade done is the thing, but there is possibility. Love is most likely to get easier though

migya make the ring fall on ya

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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:40 am

Chum wrote:
MCJackintheBox wrote:another Monta possibility I like:

Monta and Randolph for Gay and Gasol. Gay would have to be a sign and trade. I'm guessing he'll want 10+ million a year, which would put him in Monta's salary range. He'll also want at least a 4-5 year deal, which again is in Monta's 5 year current contract range. So cap-wise, the salaries would/could match up pretty well. Gasol makes about 1.5 million more than Randolph, both with 2 years remaining.

Giving up Monta for Gay I'm ok with. Giving up Randolph for Gasol is a tossup, as Gasol is better now but AR has arguably a higher ceiling. But how long can we wait to find out what that ceiling is?

It also gives the Warriors flexibility to move Biedrins, who I like alot but seems to be on his way out. It also means the end of Maggette, or at least the end of him starting. It resolves the Monta issue with a player arguably as good.

Possible Warriors starters:

Curry
Williams
Gay
Wright
Gasol

bench: Maggette, Kelenna, Turiaf, VladRad (next years trade chip), #6

I don't know. Gay isn't a very good defender, and I think the Grizz would want a lot more than this for Gasol. B.Wright, as much as I like him looks too frail to play PF.

I'm all for trading for Marc Gasol but I think we'd probably have to give up too much to do it.

I don't want to trade AR, as I think is definate that he hasn't had a real chance and could explode and be an allstar elsewhere, making us all be up in arms and say that yet again another star left. It all comes down to what value the Grizz see in AR. MGasol fills more needs than aR, at least by what we've seen so far, though AR's numbers in limited time a re real good, in rebounding and shotblocking especially. Right now, I'd take MGasol to be honest, he is that stable and solid and I think he could play at PF with AB at Center, but that's a bit lacking in finesse skill and shooting with that duo.

I do think Monta, 6th pick and filler, like Morrow or BW for Mayo and MGasol could work, as the Grizz were willing to trade Mayo and filler for Monta before

migya make the ring fall on ya

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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:14 pm

LilBallerx8 wrote:
bada wrote:
MCJackintheBox wrote: Giving up Randolph for Gasol is a tossup, as Gasol is better now but AR has arguably a higher ceiling. But how long can we wait to find out what that ceiling is?

LOVE the trade of Randolph for Gasol MC. Really addresses a big need for us. However I would be a bit concerned about our lack of PF. After this trade I would move Anthony Morrow to the Spurs for Tim Duncan. Yeah, I know what you are saying... "Duncan is getting up there in years. How much more does he have left?"

I think he has another several solid years left, but we do lose some youth... but I will address that later.

Secondly, we all know how important Curry is to our offense, and when he leaves the game, our play declines. We also know how his game has been compared to Nash. So I say we trade Kelena Azubuike to the Suns for Nash for those moments that Curry is not on the floor. This way we dont lose a beat!

But I am sure you guys are saying to yourself, WOW, we sure did get old there with those trades. Yeah, we did, but I think we need the veteran presense that both Duncan and Nash provide. I know, hefty price to give up Azu and Morrow... but you gotta give to get in this league.

But to address the getting old thing, I think getting Duncan makes Anthony Tolliver expendible so as tough as it is to say (cause I really did love his hustle) I would trade him for 3 future first round picks.

I think these moves both make us better today AND set us up for the future.

-starts clapping-
Yes, MC

so i guess my suggestion of Monta and AR for Gay and Gasol gets ridiculed by some random asshat. fine. i can live with that. i'm sooo offended.

whatever. personally, i really did think he was that retarded. that's why i asked nicely instead of just calling a spade a spade.

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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:39 pm

MCJackintheBox wrote:
LilBallerx8 wrote:
bada wrote:
MCJackintheBox wrote: Giving up Randolph for Gasol is a tossup, as Gasol is better now but AR has arguably a higher ceiling. But how long can we wait to find out what that ceiling is?

LOVE the trade of Randolph for Gasol MC. Really addresses a big need for us. However I would be a bit concerned about our lack of PF. After this trade I would move Anthony Morrow to the Spurs for Tim Duncan. Yeah, I know what you are saying... "Duncan is getting up there in years. How much more does he have left?"

I think he has another several solid years left, but we do lose some youth... but I will address that later.

Secondly, we all know how important Curry is to our offense, and when he leaves the game, our play declines. We also know how his game has been compared to Nash. So I say we trade Kelena Azubuike to the Suns for Nash for those moments that Curry is not on the floor. This way we dont lose a beat!

But I am sure you guys are saying to yourself, WOW, we sure did get old there with those trades. Yeah, we did, but I think we need the veteran presense that both Duncan and Nash provide. I know, hefty price to give up Azu and Morrow... but you gotta give to get in this league.

But to address the getting old thing, I think getting Duncan makes Anthony Tolliver expendible so as tough as it is to say (cause I really did love his hustle) I would trade him for 3 future first round picks.

I think these moves both make us better today AND set us up for the future.

-starts clapping-
Yes, MC

so i guess my suggestion of Monta and AR for Gay and Gasol gets ridiculed by some random asshat. fine. i can live with that. i'm sooo offended.

whatever. personally, i really did think he was that retarded. that's why i asked nicely instead of just calling a spade a spade.

I was riduculing your trade suggestion, not you personally. But I see indeed you ARE offended as you are quick to insult me personally. Call me an asshat and a retard... I can live with that. I am a grown man. However we frown heavily on personal attacks so I will ask you to refrain.

Perhaps my response was passive-aggresive but I was trying a different approach than seemingly the last week or so.

So I will go back to responding DIRECTLY to the absurdity of what you are suggesting.

Your first trade scenario - Monta for Gay. Not totally out of line but in my opinion close. There are several teams with plenty of cap space that are rumored to be willing to throw a max contract at him if they are not able to land the Lebron and Bosh's of the world. Gay is thought of around the league much higher than Monta. Perhaps if they felt they would not be able to match an offer for him, they would be willing to trade him. However they already have Mayo so this deal does not make a lot of sense for them. But not terrible.

It is really the Randolph for Gasol deal that I found rediculous. Do you really think there is ANY chance Memphis would do that deal??? Center is the HARDEST position to fill in the league and they have one of the league's best young centers. AR, Monta AND our 6th pick probably would not be enough... let alone just Randolph. Young, proven Centers are NEVER traded unless you SO OVERPAY or they fear they will lose him for nothing which does not apply in this situation.

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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:59 pm

bada wrote:I was riduculing your trade suggestion, not you personally.

Bada, there is no way he could take what you said as anything but a personal attack. Trying to semantically pretend it wasn't a personal attack just makes it worse imo.

For instance you called me out on a comment I made toward Beast today. I shouldn't have made that comment, just like MC shouldn't have called you an asshat, but a person can only take so much "that's retarded, that's stupid, that's idiotic" etc. etc. talk before it feels very personal.

I don't want to get to that level with anyone, but believe me if you draw some fantasy line in the sand and say you can insult someone this way but not that way things can and will get nasty. I certainly don't want that, nor do I want to be called an idiot either directly or indirectly. I don't think MC cared for it either.

If you are going to take it a step further and say some people can get away with insults and others can't... then I'll move on to greener pastures.

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bada bada's Profile bada's Website Franchise Player Posts: 6145 Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:13 am Location: looking down at the Warriors practice facility Poster Credit: -7	Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:25 pm It is not my problem if people feel personally attacked if I think their suggestion is idiotic. This is a discussion board and by nature people are going to disagree. I can think your opinion is stupid, but that does not mean I think YOU are stupid. They are two different things and if people cant separate that or have thin skin, I can't help that.
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Beast Mode Beast Mode's Profile All Star Posts: 2482 Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:40 am Location: Hollywood Poster Credit: 13	Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:47 pm bada wrote:It is not my problem if people feel personally attacked if I think their suggestion is idiotic. This is a discussion board and by nature people are going to disagree. I can think your opinion is stupid, but that does not mean I think YOU are stupid. They are two different things and if people cant separate that or have thin skin, I can't help that.
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:48 pm

bada wrote:It is not my problem if people feel personally attacked if I think their suggestion is idiotic. This is a discussion board and by nature people are going to disagree.

I can think your opinion is stupid, but that does not mean I think YOU are stupid. They are two different things and if people cant separate that or have thin skin, I can't help that.

That's idiotic.

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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:53 pm

Chum wrote:
bada wrote:It is not my problem if people feel personally attacked if I think their suggestion is idiotic. This is a discussion board and by nature people are going to disagree.

I can think your opinion is stupid, but that does not mean I think YOU are stupid. They are two different things and if people cant separate that or have thin skin, I can't help that.

That's idiotic.

Not sure how we continue a discussion board if we are not allowed to STRONGLY disagree with someones opinion. If in my opinion something is absurd, then I will say that. Again, has no bearing on the way I personally feel about someone as most of you I have never met and know nothing about what kind of people you are.

People need to get thicker skins... I mean if you put an opinion for the "public" to see, then you have to expect some people are going to have strong reactions.

migya is a GREAT example. I mean I have really gone after his opinion... probably too harshly and perhaps I have crossed the line with him from time to time... but he never resorts to peronal attacks and instead just tires to clarify and explain his position. I give migya a lot of respect.

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Some Prospective Monta Trades:

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