Kareem says Stay in School

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:47 am
I thought this was a good article/interview of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (one of the very few Lakers I have actually liked.) I agree that kids shouldn't be able to enter the NBA until they are 21. Then again I also think kids shouldn't be allowed to go to war, drink or drive until they are 21 either. Damn teenagers! :wink:

Anyway, do you think kids should be allowed to enter the NBA before they are 21? If not, do you think college players should be able to receive some kind of compensation? I do. I'd like to see college players get drafted by NBA teams but be required to stay in school until they are 21. Perhaps they should not be allowed to collect on a contract until they are 21 either. This way the college game gets better, NBA players will gain some much needed maturity, and a college injury won't prevent them from gaining a big contract they might otherwise have. I'm sure there are some holes in my theory, please point them out.

link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5184291

Kareem: Players' attitudes hurting gameEmail Print Comments476 Share137 Retweet24 Associated Press

OMAHA, Neb. -- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar says the NBA should raise its minimum age for entry into the league to 21.

The NBA's career scoring leader and center on the Los Angeles Lakers' 1980s "Showtime" teams said Wednesday there's a disturbing sense of entitlement among many of today's young pros.

"They get precocious kids from high school who think they're rock stars -- 'Where's my $30 million?' " said Abdul-Jabbar, who was in Omaha to speak at the B'nai B'rith sports banquet. "The attitudes have changed, and the game has suffered because of that, and it has certainly hurt the college game."

The 63-year-old Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson led the Lakers to five NBA titles in the 1980s. Before Abdul-Jabbar retired in 1989, he set the NBA record for career points (38,387), MVP selections (six) and All-Star selections (19).



They get precocious kids from high school who think they're rock stars -- 'Where's my $30 million?' The attitudes have changed, and the game has suffered because of that, and it has certainly hurt the college game.


-- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

He now is a special assistant to the Lakers and a best-selling author.

Abdul-Jabbar met students Wednesday at Boys Town, the nationally acclaimed home for troubled youth. He told them about his time at UCLA, where he played on three national championship teams for John Wooden and graduated in four years with degrees in English and history.

"Coach John Wooden encouraged me to be more than just a jock," Abdul-Jabbar said. "He said if I let my intellectual life suffer because I was so into being an athlete that I would be less than I could be. I would tell all students to pursue your dreams but don't let your education suffer."

The NBA in 2005 changed its entry age to 19. Players who previously might have jumped from high school to the NBA now end up playing one year of college ball before declaring for the draft.

Those players are still too young, Abdul-Jabbar said, and many deprive themselves of the emotional and physical maturity necessary to meet on- and off-the-court challenges.

"When I played, the players had to go to college and earn their way onto the court, meaning that there were upperclassmen ahead of them," he said. "Players who had to go through that and had to go to class, when they got to be professional athletes, they were a lot better qualified."

Abdul-Jabbar said if college weren't the right place for a player, the player should, as an alternative, be required to play in a minor league or developmental league.

Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant and LeBron James became stars right out of high school. The day after James all but disappeared in Cleveland's playoff loss to Boston, Abdul-Jabbar said even "King James" would have benefited from college.

"He would have come into the professional ranks very polished, given his innate gifts," Abdul-Jabbar said. "Having to go through a college system would have made him a total gem as soon as he stepped out of the college ranks."

Abdul-Jabbar commented on other topics:

• He said his role as co-pilot "Roger Murdock" in the 1980 comedy movie "Airplane" changed his life.

"I think everybody in the airline industry is required to watch it," he said. "When I get on planes, every so often the stewardess or the pilot will come out and ask me, 'Do you want to fly the plane?'"

During a flight in Europe, a pilot escorted him from his seat to the cockpit for takeoff.

"I get a good laugh from it," he said. "It's been over 25 years since I made that movie and people still watch it all the time. I guess it's a classic."

• He said he has known about Boys Town and its founder, the Rev. Edward Flanagan, since he attended Catholic school in an Irish neighborhood in New York City. "The Irish were very proud of him and what he had achieved. It's really neat for me to come out here and see it in reality and seeing they're doing such fine work. That is so necessary. People have to care about our youth. They are our most precious resources. If we don't care, what's going to happen."

• He said his greatest athletic achievement was playing on the Lakers team that beat Boston for the NBA title in 1985.

"But seeing my kids graduate from college and knowing they have a firm basis in life, that is a lot more important to me, personally," he said.

• He said 6-11 center Nate Thurmond, who played for Golden State, Chicago and Cleveland, was his toughest matchup.

"A lot of guys beat on me and said they played good defense. Nate actually used skill and knowledge of the game to play against me and make my evenings more difficult when I had to play him," Abdul-Jabbar said. "He was everything a professional center should be."

• He said the "Showtime" Lakers would fare well in the current NBA.

"We had guys on the bench who were Hall of Famers," he said. "That doesn't happen now because there is such a dispersal of talent. We would do very well in this present climate."


Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:51 am
Its an interesting question, I think forcing players to go to school for a year hurts the NCAA more than it helps it. Basketball should adopt the rule that is used in MLB. You should either go to the pros directly from High School or commit to a college for 3 years. This would not only give you more polished athletes coming into the NBA, but it would make the college game much better at the same time.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:34 am
"Always" Next wrote:Its an interesting question, I think forcing players to go to school for a year hurts the NCAA more than it helps it. Basketball should adopt the rule that is used in MLB. You should either go to the pros directly from High School or commit to a college for 3 years. This would not only give you more polished athletes coming into the NBA, but it would make the college game much better at the same time.


That's not a bad idea Always. I too agree that this 1 year of college thing hurts the NCAA.

I've always felt bad for the top college players who decide to stay and then get injuried. Bye bye pro career. What do you think about allowing pro teams to draft college players, but require the players to stay until they are 21? This takes the pressure off the player and puts the risk with the NBA. It is the NBA after all that is making things difficult for the NCAA, whether they mean to or not.

I would imagine that NBA teams would be willing to draft a kid in college knowing they won't get him for a few years.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:39 am
Chum wrote:
"Always" Next wrote:Its an interesting question, I think forcing players to go to school for a year hurts the NCAA more than it helps it. Basketball should adopt the rule that is used in MLB. You should either go to the pros directly from High School or commit to a college for 3 years. This would not only give you more polished athletes coming into the NBA, but it would make the college game much better at the same time.


That's not a bad idea Always. I too agree that this 1 year of college thing hurts the NCAA.

I've always felt bad for the top college players who decide to stay and then get injuried. Bye bye pro career. What do you think about allowing pro teams to draft college players, but require the players to stay until they are 21? This takes the pressure off the player and puts the risk with the NBA. It is the NBA after all that is making things difficult for the NCAA, whether they mean to or not.

I would imagine that NBA teams would be willing to draft a kid in college knowing they won't get him for a few years.


I dont know if that system would work Chum. It would allow better teams to draft top talents because they would be able to hold out until they were eligible to play in the league. It would hurt the struggling teams that are in need of immediate help.

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:38 pm
I agree completely, I like the idea of 3 years of college. But I don't think it's doable. I'd be willing to accept even 2 years as a compromise that's attainable.There's just too much waiting and babysitting going on. They'll develop more evenly if they can play everyday, even if it's not on a pro level.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 5:42 pm
Yeah, i hate this one and done thing. Kids are barely taking any units when they are in college. It is a joke to the term "student-athlete".

I go back and forth on this issue. Its shown that some players can be successful after high school in the pros. But once you commit to a college, i think you should be forced to stick with it for 3 years, having a full course load of classes (in additional to some economic/money management classes so they don't go broke after their NBA careers as most NBA'ers).
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 7:04 pm
In certainly dont love guys right out of HS going to the NBA, but what I hate more is "1 and done" guys. I want no part of making kids go to college when they have no interest in school. Like Crackers said, it makes a mockery of the whole thing. It also puts top tier college program coaches in a really difficult position on whether to recruit these kids they know will be one an done. If a kid does not want to go to school, they he should not be there.

What I would like to see is something like the following:

THe NBA institutes a rule that you must be two years removed from your HS graduation year.

In conjunction, they invest into making the NBDL a TRUE developmental league. They must partner with that league to make it more viable.

Kids that have no interest in going to school could enter the NBDL draft instead. Obviously salaries need to go up in that league and also there needs to be more teams. I think if you had guys like Wall, Cousins, etc going right to this league, the revenue would dramatically in that league as fans would definately check out those games as they would be seeing the NBA stars of the future rather than NBA washouts and never have beens.

This is where the NBA subsidies would come into play... but that alone would not be enough to sustain the new salary structure and infrastructure and expenses of this league.

Not sure if this would be legal, but since these guys are adults and "professionals" they would be free to sign endorsement deals. I would propose that the NBDL contracts specify that 50% of all endorsement deals for players go to the league. This money MUST be re-invested into the league to fund player salaries and the infrastructure in the league. Not into owners pockets.

I think this way you could have a league of 20 or so teams around the country that could be financially viable. They could afford to bumb salaries to say around 75K which probably would be enough to entice people to join the league but not enough to where guys on the fence would jump.

The downside would be the lowering of top tier talent in NCAA. But in my opinion the current system of one and done and completely lowered the level of play. The talent may be up, but level of play is down. I think with stable rosters (even if talent is not as great) you would see much more compelling and well played ball on the collegiate level.

Probably a lot of things I have not thought about that maybe make this not work, but it seems to me like something like it could be the best solution.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 7:21 pm
bada wrote:In conjunction, they invest into making the NBDL a TRUE developmental league. They must partner with that league to make it more viable.


I'm already a fan of the D-League :) I'd love it if they ramped it up and made it a place for none college players to go before the NBA.

OK, so far everyone hates the one and done system... who the hell thought of that in the first place?
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 7:44 pm
Yeah, I'm not a fan of high school players jumping straight to the NBA unless they're a lock for a top three pick. I'm strongly against one and done players, too. Guys like John Wall, Greg Oden... those guys get hyped up during high school, but then the rule forces them to attend at least one year of college before entering the pros. They do just that and it ruins the integrity of NCAA Basketball. One and done, one and done, one and done.

Always made a good point, the MLB has it... you either are drafted in HS or you commit to at least three-years of college.

This also puts them in a position where if something bad happens, such as a career ending injury after their sophomore season or so, they at least have something to fall back on because they went to school and pursued a degree. They're sending the wrong message to all the young children out there who dream of entering the NBA one day... you can make it, all you gotta do is survive one year of college and you'll be in the NBA in no time.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 7:56 pm
bada wrote:In certainly dont love guys right out of HS going to the NBA, but what I hate more is "1 and done" guys. I want no part of making kids go to college when they have no interest in school. Like Crackers said, it makes a mockery of the whole thing. It also puts top tier college program coaches in a really difficult position on whether to recruit these kids they know will be one an done. If a kid does not want to go to school, they he should not be there.

What I would like to see is something like the following:

THe NBA institutes a rule that you must be two years removed from your HS graduation year.

In conjunction, they invest into making the NBDL a TRUE developmental league. They must partner with that league to make it more viable.

Kids that have no interest in going to school could enter the NBDL draft instead. Obviously salaries need to go up in that league and also there needs to be more teams. I think if you had guys like Wall, Cousins, etc going right to this league, the revenue would dramatically in that league as fans would definately check out those games as they would be seeing the NBA stars of the future rather than NBA washouts and never have beens.

This is where the NBA subsidies would come into play... but that alone would not be enough to sustain the new salary structure and infrastructure and expenses of this league.

Not sure if this would be legal, but since these guys are adults and "professionals" they would be free to sign endorsement deals. I would propose that the NBDL contracts specify that 50% of all endorsement deals for players go to the league. This money MUST be re-invested into the league to fund player salaries and the infrastructure in the league. Not into owners pockets.

I think this way you could have a league of 20 or so teams around the country that could be financially viable. They could afford to bumb salaries to say around 75K which probably would be enough to entice people to join the league but not enough to where guys on the fence would jump.

The downside would be the lowering of top tier talent in NCAA. But in my opinion the current system of one and done and completely lowered the level of play. The talent may be up, but level of play is down. I think with stable rosters (even if talent is not as great) you would see much more compelling and well played ball on the collegiate level.

Probably a lot of things I have not thought about that maybe make this not work, but it seems to me like something like it could be the best solution.



Nice and agree with most. I think going to college is a good thing only if you want to be there, but very young players getting to play often in real games is the best thing
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:38 pm
Another way to look at it is how the NCAA profits off these kids, go get your money on your own, one-n-done rule is not good for colleges who lose kids early because of the draft or the kids who will make that jump from high school to the pros. Don't see such rule in golf.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:12 pm
I think at 18 if you can go to war, you can choose what the hell career you want to pursue in life. Whether or not a kid would benefit from more years in College is irrelevant. There should be no restrictions on entering the NBA Draft after high school. You don't know the kids situation. It's up to them to decide whether they want to fail/succeed.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:29 pm
First, I don't have a problem with guys that turn 18 entering the NBA draft. I think the "one and done" is a joke. I'd agree with a 3 year term in college if they choose to go to college, but if not, I don't think a rule that forbids them to enter the draft would be fair, or good for the sport of the kids...


bada wrote:Kids that have no interest in going to school could enter the NBDL draft instead. Obviously salaries need to go up in that league and also there needs to be more teams. I think if you had guys like Wall, Cousins, etc going right to this league, the revenue would dramatically in that league as fans would definately check out those games as they would be seeing the NBA stars of the future rather than NBA washouts and never have beens.


I don't think that can happen, Bada. It's nice on paper, but I'm having a hard time believing NBA franchises would risk having more people on the stans of a NBDL game than their own. And you know it'd happen, particularly in the case of the worst teams of the league.

Unless NBA franchises get a share of that new revenue, I don't see how this could work.



Also, I don't know what it achieves. I mean, if they're ready (or, in some cases, only willing) to play bball, why not do it in the top league?. If they go college, it's to get an education beyond bball (wheter they get it or not is a different story, tho), but if they're not going to get anything different than they'd get in the NBA (actually, it'd be the same, but diluted), why not allowing them to make the leap straight away?
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 2:40 am
Get in!!!..............he said Nate "The Great" was his toughest matchup!

Sorry, little off topic................yeah, f*ck kids (not literally) and MAKE them go to school and learn how to be adults, rather than thinking they are because of their wallets, cars and pregnant sluts.

Kids get everything too easy and too quick these days.............most music and marketing is directed at them, f*cking cell phones at 10, chugging c*ck at 12..............the list is endless of things they get and do too soon for their tiny little, un-developed emotionally, minds to handle the responsibility and consequences of.
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 3:17 am
bigstrads wrote:Get in!!!..............he said Nate "The Great" was his toughest matchup!

Sorry, little off topic................yeah, f*ck kids (not literally) and MAKE them go to school and learn how to be adults, rather than thinking they are because of their wallets, cars and pregnant sluts.

Kids get everything too easy and too quick these days.............most music and marketing is directed at them, f*cking cell phones at 10, chugging c*ck at 12..............the list is endless of things they get and do too soon for their tiny little, un-developed emotionally, minds to handle the responsibility and consequences of.



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