Trading Andre Iguodala for Amare

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:56 am
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Trading-Andre-Iguodala;_ylt=ApjSwlb2cC_jKyVhEDMUo3K8vLYF?urn=nba,218347


Trading Andre Iguodala

It appears to be the only big deal that survived the weekend.

It appears to be the only possible deal in this impending all or nothing trade deadline de 2010. The trade deadline that could see half of the NBA moved an inch to the left, or merely Dorell Wright(notes) shipped away from Miami for a conditional second-rounder. Conditional.

Amar'e Stoudemire(notes) and potentially, we think (we're pretty sure, dude's opting out) his expiring contract to the Philadelphia 76ers for Andre Iguodala(notes) and his rather large contract.

It wouldn't be that simple. It never is. Philadelphia would certainly want the Suns to take on Samuel Dalembert's(notes) contract, and the 76ers would probably have to take on Jason Richardson(notes), and various parts (expiring or otherwise) would have to be tossed in so as to even things out. The point being that the 76ers, in the midst of an embarrassing season spent playing in front of some of the most dispassionate and smaller home crowds in this league, for the fourth or fifth year in a row, are trying to re-tool. Rebuild. Re-everything.

And the Suns? For some reason, they want Andre Iguodala.

This game never stops teaching us. And for whatever purpose, it has yet to teach us about Andre Iguodala. You watch him play, and all you can think about is what AI doesn't do right. He doesn't appear to be particularly adept at creating shots. He shows a peculiar affinity for the high-arching three-point bomb, no matter the situation, regardless of his success rate from behind that arc. He just doesn't appear to be much of a game-changer.

And then the game ends. And you see his line. And it reminds of a B-level LeBron James(notes).

And you look at how well the 76ers do with him on the court, and off the court. And you remind yourself to pay particular attention to Andre the next time you see the Sixers, to see what, exactly, he's doing. And you try, for a while, but those Sixers games come on at the same time as four or five other contests, and you have a column to write, and you flip around.

And you never learn why, exactly, it is that this guy's advanced statistics are so, so appealing. We get that he's efficient, that he defends well, that he focuses (at his best) on three-pointers and high-percentage finishes, the most effective takes a man could make. We know he passes, he boards, he creates turnovers, and he can be the biggest reason behind a 12-to-2 run.

But an all-world player? A lot of people think so. I think I think so. The Suns, according to rumor, think so.

Which is funny, because they had a chance at this guy back in 2004. Traded the pick away to Chicago in preparation for the great Steve Nash(notes) signing that summer.

Nash wasn't the only guy, mind you. The nice guy in you tells you that the Suns traded a lottery pick to Chicago for more room to sign Steve Nash. The prat in you reminds you that they also traded a lottery pick to Chicago for more room to sign Quentin Richardson(notes).

The Suns, apparently, are willing to break the bank for this guy. To trade big for small. To take on four more years at an average of $14 million per season. Yes, we know that for Phoenix's reputation as a heap of cost-cutters, the team still does pay the luxury tax, so a deal like this wouldn't exactly be termed atypical in spite of all those draft picks the team tosses away. And while the idea of AI throwing down on the break on a lob from Nash, finishing what he started with a steal or board on the other end excites, it still makes you wonder.

Nash is winding down. His stats might be trending up, but the run (this fabulous, fabulous run) has to end at some point. And this is the guy you're pairing him with work through these final years? Is there something we don't know?

In this league, there always is. As much as you think you might have things sussed out, there's always something that these people can teach you. Even if they traded for Shaq. Even if they valued money and Marcus Banks(notes) over Rajon Rondo(notes) and/or Nate Robinson(notes).

For the Sixers? Yeah, we kind of think we have them sussed out. This is a team that just signed Allen Iverson(notes). Clearly, they're out of ideas. Once you crib from the Grizzlies, after the Grizzlies admit defeat, you're lost.

Losing Dalembert's contract, though? Even if Nash lobs him toward a series of 20 and 20 games? Watching Iguodala blossom in the dry heat? Still faced with having to dump Elton Brand(notes), somewhere, while barely 8000 people show up to witness Amar'e Stoudemire look strange for a few months in an (admittedly, sweet) 76ers uniform?

Worth it. Rebuilding, when executed properly, always is. Especially if the owner has your back, and Philly GM Ed Stefanski will clearly win points with Sixers owner Ed Snider. This should never be a reason for changing horses, but given the particular stream the Sixers are in, why the hell not? What's going right?

Even if Amar'e is only around for a few months, even if it is a passing paint predilection, you must lust after the chance to start over. Especially if it jettisons all those cap responsibilities. And if you lose Andre Iguodala in the process, oh well.

I think. AI might be the gem I'll never understand. That said, in a team game that demands the presence of four other players on the floor alongside your particular gem, this might not even matter to Philadelphia.

Work with what you don't understand.

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I do think this trade will happen shortly and I don't really understand it from the Suns point of view completely, though I do somewhat. Amare can opt out and that is reason enough to make this trade, but does Iguodala fit in there? Yea he's a great SG/SF player that could be their future, along with players like Raul Lopez, Barbosa and JRich, but right now they have GHill and JRich there at the SG and SF spots, though apparently JRich might have to go if this trade went down. They will have to take on Dalembert as well and if they can't make a player out of him, which they might not be able to do as they have Lopez and Frye there already, then they have one of the most overpaid bust type players there is right now.

The Sixers would have two star bigs, or at least Brand was a star and sometimes plays like it, though every five to ten games it seems. If and it is a big if, they could keep Amare and get Iverson to stay on at the veteran's minimum or close to it, they could actually have a pretty good team, but Amare will leave that mess real quick and the sixers will be one of the worst teams there is. They want to cut salaries, but I wonder what for, as likely no star player wants to go there.

Phoenix might win out from a security stand point, but they won't be able to sign any other players and might not be able to resign any of their young players over the next three years either, something that will drop them down heavily. Nash will leave in a year or two I think, GHill also and then that team will have little left and not be able to get one more star to go with Iguodala.

Both those teams look shaky for the coming few years, Phoenix less so, but this time they might well fall
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:45 pm
Suns already have Jrich and Grant hill, they need more quality players not just one, damn Steve Kerr fukked that team up.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:03 am
warriorsstepup wrote:Suns already have Jrich and Grant hill, they need more quality players not just one, damn Steve Kerr fukked that team up.



Iggy would be an upgrade obviously, but it is the money that they'll be spending on both him and Dalembert that is what will hinder them in the future in signing other very good players. Nash and GHill will be leaving soon and they'll need replacements
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:15 am
migya wrote:Nash and GHill will be leaving soon and they'll need replacements


That's the problem. The Suns are a playoff team right now, but far from a contender, and Nash and Hill are gonna retire soon... Future doesn't look too bright for them.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:19 am
migya wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:Suns already have Jrich and Grant hill, they need more quality players not just one, damn Steve Kerr fukked that team up.



Iggy would be an upgrade obviously, but it is the money that they'll be spending on both him and Dalembert that is what will hinder them in the future in signing other very good players. Nash and GHill will be leaving soon and they'll need replacements


I guess Iggy and Jrich could co-exist, just there front-line would be lacking of course. Suns are in a tough position, but that can be credited to Kerr.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:32 am
TMC wrote:
migya wrote:Nash and GHill will be leaving soon and they'll need replacements


That's the problem. The Suns are a playoff team right now, but far from a contender, and Nash and Hill are gonna retire soon... Future doesn't look too bright for them.



They could turn it around and maybe this trade of aamre to the sixers could be a good start, but it also puts them in a hole somewhat. They have to deal some sort of genius roster moves to stay a very good team and all I can see is making this trade and then signing some key free agent, who I don't know, but they would still need one other player and an offensive one, as getting rid of Amare loses them a tom of offense that they need and have needed in how they are organised for years now
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:33 am
warriorsstepup wrote:
migya wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:Suns already have Jrich and Grant hill, they need more quality players not just one, damn Steve Kerr fukked that team up.



Iggy would be an upgrade obviously, but it is the money that they'll be spending on both him and Dalembert that is what will hinder them in the future in signing other very good players. Nash and GHill will be leaving soon and they'll need replacements


I guess Iggy and Jrich could co-exist, just there front-line would be lacking of course. Suns are in a tough position, but that can be credited to Kerr.



Their frontline would be rebounders and defenders. They'd have to pray that Raul Lopez becomes like his brother overnight
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:49 am
migya wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:
migya wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:Suns already have Jrich and Grant hill, they need more quality players not just one, damn Steve Kerr fukked that team up.



Iggy would be an upgrade obviously, but it is the money that they'll be spending on both him and Dalembert that is what will hinder them in the future in signing other very good players. Nash and GHill will be leaving soon and they'll need replacements


I guess Iggy and Jrich could co-exist, just there front-line would be lacking of course. Suns are in a tough position, but that can be credited to Kerr.



Their frontline would be rebounders and defenders. They'd have to pray that Raul Lopez becomes like his brother overnight


Jrich for Iggy, lol, that would never work, but they could manage with Lopez and Dalembert if he is part of the deal. Shawn Marion was such a great fit for them with Nash running the point, Diaw, Bell. Damn Jrich making almost 14 mill didnt know it was like that.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:20 am
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns

Miami Heat president Pat Riley has emerged as one of the most determined pursuers of Phoenix Suns forward Amar’e Stoudemire(notes), proposing several different packages that make available any of his players short of Dwyane Wade(notes), league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
More From Adrian Wojnarowski

The Heat have discussed several scenarios with the Suns, including packages that include combinations of young players (Michael Beasley(notes), Dorell Wright(notes)) and expiring contracts (Jermaine O’Neal(notes) and Quentin Richardson(notes)). The Heat are also willing to part with their 2010 first-round draft pick.

”Nobody is pushing harder on this than Riley,” one league source said.

The Suns are believed to be in discussions with as many as six teams, although more may yet show themselves before the Feb. 18 trade deadline. The Philadelphia 76ers remain involved, but have rejected the Suns’ attempts to attach guard Jason Richardson(notes) to a larger package that would include Samuel Dalembert(notes) and Andre Iguodala(notes).

League sources say the Sacramento Kings also have discussed a package that would include sending Kevin Martin(notes) to the Suns for Stoudemire.

The Suns don’t want to lose Stoudemire for nothing if he opts out of the $17.6 million on the final year of his contract. It’s doubtful whether the Suns and Stoudemire can reach agreement on a contract extension, and the clock is clearly ticking on Suns owner Robert Sarver and GM Steve Kerr.

League sources say the Suns are dubious the Heat can present the best possible package for Stoudemire, and aren’t enamored with any of the combinations. Still, Miami is near, or at, the top of Stoudemire’s preferred destinations and he would assuredly sign an extension to play with Wade there. Several suitors have been frightened away from seriously bidding on Stoudemire, because they don’t want to give up valued assets for a short-term rental. The Suns are taking a gamble should they keep Stoudemire past the trade deadline.

As the Heat struggle, Riley is motivated to get a complementary frontcourt star to persuade Wade to re-sign with Miami this summer. Riley knows Wade is frustrated with the Heat’s struggles. Miami is clinging to the eight playoff spot in the Eastern Conference, and ended a five-game losing streak on Tuesday with a victory over the Houston Rockets.

Riley doesn’t want to wait until the summer to get into the free-agent chase when he could try to sign Stoudemire to a contract.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:45 pm
Stupid idea by Riley. IF he could get Amare and both he and Wade resigned with the heat, it would end up a brilliant move, but there is just way too much risk and that risk being of one or both of those players leaving, thus elaving that heat team as among the worst, if not the worst, in the nba. Beasley is not a superstar, maybe could be some day, hard to tell, but he is a keeper right now, at least for another year to see what he really might become. That Heat roster has some pretty good pieces, even Jermaine, and just need two more good role players, with keeping what they've currently got.

Kings offer could be an interesting one, with Kevin Martin, but I wouldn't do that if I was Phoenix, I'd rather go with Iguodala
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:08 pm
No risk migya, no reward. as opposed to our FO that take zero chances.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:00 pm
bada wrote:No risk migya, no reward. as opposed to our FO that take zero chances.



There are risks and there are major risks and this is a major risk
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:05 am
And Miami is one of the best landing spots for Amare. There's a big chance he'll sign an extension there, and that's probably better than just staying put and trying to sign him without having any kind of attachment to the team. Renting him for half a season and letting him bond with Wade may be a brilliant move...


And Beasley is good... but he's just a good starter, far from a star. If Wade leaves, the Heat will be one of the worst teams of the league, no matter what. The risk might be higher staying put than going for Amare.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:15 am
I don't see how Phoenix doesn't see Iggy and Dalembert as a far better trade than Ilgauskas and Hickson. Really baffling to me
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:24 am
migya wrote:I don't see how Phoenix doesn't see Iggy and Dalembert as a far better trade than Ilgauskas and Hickson. Really baffling to me


Well the trade hasn't gone through, yet. And many teams have upped their offer for Amare. I understand why you believe that, though and I agree. But from a different perspective, you would think Phoenix does it so they can make a move this off season with whatever money they have. You think they'd keep Hickson and cut Ilgauskas, and all that cap space they cleared goes to a big name free agent.

I think the reason they don't consider Iggy as much is because they have Grant Hill, JRich, and Barbosa. I know, Iggy would start for the Suns, but they already have guys that can do what Iggy does. They do need a center, though, because Lopez and Frye ain't gonna cut it. Also, they're taking on Iguodala's contract. That's locked in for a couple years.
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