Say it aint so Big Mac

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:21 pm
Mark McGwire has finally come clean bout his Steroid use. Im sure he figured since he is going to be coming back into baseball, he needed to clear the air rather than have a constant stream of questions coming about him. Im proud of the guy. I mean, everybody knew he used, but unlike some other guys that everyone knows they used, he manned up and fessed up.

Ultimately, he will never be a hall of famer, even with roids, he didnt play long enough to put up the kind of #s that would have forced the hall to let him in, but he was always a hero of mine. So Mac, for being a man....good on ya!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:31 pm
"Always" Next wrote:Mark McGwire has finally come clean bout his Steroid use. Im sure he figured since he is going to be coming back into baseball, he needed to clear the air rather than have a constant stream of questions coming about him. Im proud of the guy. I mean, everybody knew he used, but unlike some other guys that everyone knows they used, he manned up and fessed up.

Ultimately, he will never be a hall of famer, even with roids, he didnt play long enough to put up the kind of #s that would have forced the hall to let him in, but he was always a hero of mine. So Mac, for being a man....good on ya!


agreed. Better late than never I suppose. He made a BAD decision not coming clean earlier but glad he is doing so now.

Now Bonds needs to do the same.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:38 pm
bada wrote:
"Always" Next wrote:Mark McGwire has finally come clean bout his Steroid use. Im sure he figured since he is going to be coming back into baseball, he needed to clear the air rather than have a constant stream of questions coming about him. Im proud of the guy. I mean, everybody knew he used, but unlike some other guys that everyone knows they used, he manned up and fessed up.

Ultimately, he will never be a hall of famer, even with roids, he didnt play long enough to put up the kind of #s that would have forced the hall to let him in, but he was always a hero of mine. So Mac, for being a man....good on ya!


agreed. Better late than never I suppose. He made a BAD decision not coming clean earlier but glad he is doing so now.

Now Bonds needs to do the same.


I agree with you on Bonds bada, but I really dont think he ever will. To me, Bonds seems to have that ego that makes him feel bigger than the game.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:51 pm
It wasn't much of a confession by Big Mac - he basically just lied more saying he used them for health and not for performance enhancement. This was just a pathetic plea after not getting in the HOF. It wont help him though he might get a few more votes next year but he's at around 23% and he needs to get to 75%. Always is right about him not being good enough to get in anyways - he has the numbers i think he played in 12 all star games - that would guarantee anyone a trip to the hall but without the roids he was a mediocre slugger that batted just over .260.

Bonds should go because he was a HOF before the roids, I doubt he'll go but he'll get a lot more votes then Mark.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:16 pm
JREED23 wrote:It wasn't much of a confession by Big Mac - he basically just lied more saying he used them for health and not for performance enhancement. This was just a pathetic plea after not getting in the HOF. It wont help him though he might get a few more votes next year but he's at around 23% and he needs to get to 75%. Always is right about him not being good enough to get in anyways - he has the numbers i think he played in 12 all star games - that would guarantee anyone a trip to the hall but without the roids he was a mediocre slugger that batted just over .260.

Bonds should go because he was a HOF before the roids, I doubt he'll go but he'll get a lot more votes then Mark.


I believe that Mac took the roids to help stay healthier, but the enhancing side effects are un-deniable. He was a mess, could not stay on the field, but began taking roids to be able to recover better. There is no doubt that he reaped the performance enhancing benefits, but in the end, I believe the reason he took them was not to be a bigger, stronger player, it was to keep himself on the field.

JReed, your point about Bonds, makes me hate him even more! He was good enough to do what he did without cheating.....but he had to cheat because he had to be better than everybody else. It wasnt good enough to be one of the best players of the era, his ego would never allow that. Well Mr. Bonds....you will never be Rickey Henderson, or Willie Mays, you are a cheater!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:47 pm
I think the roids thing definitely tarnishes his image but the Mac should definitely be in the HOF. Back in the mid to late 90's he was THE guy.

But then, I think Pete Rose should be there as well.... I forgive and forget easily...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:08 pm
It has become quite apparent that the rumors of 75+% of the league was using some sort of performance enhancers is probably accurate.

Given that, everyone or no one in that era should get in.

When he hit 70 home runs, how many pitchers that he faced were on steriods? By all accounts from players in that era, steriod usuage was even more rampant amoung pitchers than it was postiion players.

Bottom line is there is just no way to quantify it. Baseball knew it was going on and turned a blind eye to it. There should be NO asterics on records and I think you just vote as you would have without the PED's.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:19 pm
There's no way you can discuss 90's MLB without discussing Mac at some point.

There's no way you can talk 70's MLB without Pete Rose in the conversation.

they and baseball are synonymous. They are already hall of famers... just make it legal...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:44 pm
There has never been astiriks in baseball... well, there was one... When Roger Maris broke Ruth's homerun record, there was one, but that didnt last more than a couple years.

If we are going to put asterisks in baseball, let us not forget that the amount of barbituate use during the 20's-60's should also be included. Oh, and the 1919 world series which was actually thrown should have one too. Oh, and everthing before 1946 when black players couldn't join. AND...

My point is, this era will be clouded forever. Bonds, McGuire, and (gulp) Clemens all deserve to be going to the Hall. Rose too. Because even though they were juicing, so were their competitors. EVERYONE was doing it. I think bada's estimate of 75% is a solid estimate. We need to realize this was an era thing. Keep the records intact. Add them to the hall. Baseball fans who are true to the game will know over time what happened during this time without a stupid asterisk
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:51 pm
Mr. Crackerz wrote:There has never been astiriks in baseball... well, there was one... When Roger Maris broke Ruth's homerun record, there was one, but that didnt last more than a couple years.

If we are going to put asterisks in baseball, let us not forget that the amount of barbituate use during the 20's-60's should also be included. Oh, and the 1919 world series which was actually thrown should have one too. Oh, and everthing before 1946 when black players couldn't join. AND...

My point is, this era will be clouded forever. Bonds, McGuire, and (gulp) Clemens all deserve to be going to the Hall. Rose too. Because even though they were juicing, so were their competitors. EVERYONE was doing it. I think bada's estimate of 75% is a solid estimate. We need to realize this was an era thing. Keep the records intact. Add them to the hall. Baseball fans who are true to the game will know over time what happened during this time without a stupid asterisk


well said. better than I did. Agree 100%
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:17 am
PED's don't teach skill and knowledge of the game.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:33 am
Money Morrow wrote:PED's don't teach skill and knowledge of the game.


completely agree Money, but there is no denying what edge the added strength gives you. You could say that you still need to know how to lift to be a power lifter, but Im thinking taking steroids would help you out there as well.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:48 am
"Always" Next wrote:
Money Morrow wrote:PED's don't teach skill and knowledge of the game.


completely agree Money, but there is no denying what edge the added strength gives you. You could say that you still need to know how to lift to be a power lifter, but Im thinking taking steroids would help you out there as well.


No doubt they gave them the edge in strength, and perhaps speed. But as has been said before, they were going up against pitchers on steroids... at least 75% of them. So in a way it was a level playing field so to speak... I don't agree with or encourage ped use, just think that it was a sign of the times and these guys should still be in the HOF.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:13 am
Money Morrow wrote:
"Always" Next wrote:
Money Morrow wrote:PED's don't teach skill and knowledge of the game.


completely agree Money, but there is no denying what edge the added strength gives you. You could say that you still need to know how to lift to be a power lifter, but Im thinking taking steroids would help you out there as well.


No doubt they gave them the edge in strength, and perhaps speed. But as has been said before, they were going up against pitchers on steroids... at least 75% of them. So in a way it was a level playing field so to speak... I don't agree with or encourage ped use, just think that it was a sign of the times and these guys should still be in the HOF.


I think they should be allowed in, but should be held to higher standards. I loved Big Mac, he was my favorite player growing up, but to me, he didnt put up good enough #s to get in. He was the face of an era that baseball needed to survive, but would love to forget.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:48 pm
well they have certain cutoffs on milestones that are basically automatic ins to the hall. For the steroid era, they should just extrapolate and judge players based on the era. It shouldn't be a formal thing, but basically a guide that says, in this era the average HR's, RBI's, etc. were this compared to previous eras and have a different cutoff. Although, pitchers from the dead ball era are given a break, so maybe i don't know what i'm talking about.

However, I'm not a McGwire fan, but the fact that Baseball was on his and sammy's nuts to recover from the strike, i think it's hypocritical how they treat these guys. MLB knew what was going on and now it's like they have the plague.
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