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Are You Willing To Watch A Slow Down/Defensive Team In Order To Win?

Yes
8
80%
No
2
20%
 
Total votes : 10

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:00 pm
*WARNING - A Bigs Essay Lies Ahead*

Me and Bada have been having a chat about this and I wanted to see what you guys thought and whether it would be something possible.

So, with basically every facet of our franchise being flawed and dis-functional..........players, team structure/balance, coach, front office meddlers and owner..............what is it going to take to change it and get on some kind of path to being a successful team?

1 - Nelson Going/Retiring? - Well, even if/when Nelson goes.........we will still have a flawed team with no real structure or combination of these players that another coach could come in and work with.

So a new coach is going to need/want a blow up of this team and major roster moves (Something Im not adverse to of course)

But then you still have Cohan behind it all.

2 - Trades and the acquisition of players that fill the gaping holes in our team? - If this happens now, ie: before Nelson goes, then what good is it going to do?

Would Nelson really want to come down the floor and through the ball into a post player? dont think so.........so essentially, it doesnt really matter what roster moves we make to improve our team, unless its playing into Nellie-ball, because it isnt going to be utilised correctly.

And even if we did get Nelson a team he could use and be happy with...........for the 1467th time, what the F has small ball ever won? what has Nelson ever won? = nothing.


3 - A New Owner? - This is where weve got too and the reason for this thread.

Now, we all know that Cohan doesnt give 2 sh*ts about winning, all he wants is a product out there that will be "entertaining" and the fans can atleast console themselves with the fact that they are watching "fun" basketball.

Now, so here is the question..............with so many people here and overall throughout our fan base, saying they hate to see slowdown/bring it up basketball slugfests............what are you willing to sacrifice to actually start achieving some things here?


Ive never subscribed to the whole "Defensive, slow basketball isnt fun to watch"..............hey, if I want to be entertained, Ill watch a movie or get a stripper.

Basketball, and after all these years following this team..............I want to win. I can quite easily watch a San Antonio game and be "entertained" by the fact that Im watching a REAL team, with REAL discipline, with a REAL structure that actually works!!! and translates into wins (Please see the fact that San Antonio are the best team, record wise, in the NBA since Popovich took over)

So with fans generally being happy to JUST watch some entertaining ball and not achieve very much.............are you guys willing to watch the "other" type of ball in order to start winning?

This is the big question and key starting point if we want to create any kind of revival of this franchise.............because it we just carry on being satisfied by this way of being/playing, then Cohan will continue to get his money (Hey, why would he want to sell when hes making money for putting out a product that doesnt achieve anything?)

So............what do you guys want to do? cuz if Larry Ellison ever came in here, hes going to want to win (cuz as per Bada, thats how he is, he HAS to be the best at what he does and is ruthless doing it) and Im sorry to say.............but we all know that the only consistent way to win, and the only way that gets you winning, is to play defense and to be a controlled, disciplined and well balanced team.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:26 pm
Didn't read that (no offense Bigs, but all the wine I drank last night wouldn't let me)...but I love defense in any sport and would rather watch it than explosive plays anyway.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:53 pm
Ok. So, what you're trying to say is that you (and Bada) have finally agreed with my point of view of the last few years.

Nice.





What took you so long, Bigs? :wink:
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:08 pm
Q: Are You Willing To Watch A Slow Down/Defensive Team In Order To Win?

A: YES!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:15 pm
Ive said on here 1000 times i'd take consisting winning no matter what form it comes in over exciting losing. Nothing will ever change that
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:11 pm
Nellie Ball gives us the best chance to win.

It's good that you mention the Spurs BIGS, because what you failed to ignore was the fact that Greg Poppavich has arguebly the best Power Forward ever on his roster and Poppavich also earned his stripes under Don Nelson.

You give the Warriors a True Post Presence.. I'm sure Don Nelson would go down to the block with him (he did with Dirk in Dallas)

It's the front office fault in my eyes. Like asking Michelango to paint the Sistine Chappell with a bunch of Crayons. Obviously Don Nelson is one of the GOATS and he does love the wingmen... but to totally ignore the need for Bigmen is just a joke!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:22 pm
PAWNO6124FF171 wrote:Nellie Ball gives us the best chance to win.

It's good that you mention the Spurs BIGS, because what you failed to ignore was the fact that Greg Poppavich has arguebly the best Power Forward ever on his roster and Poppavich also earned his stripes under Don Nelson.

You give the Warriors a True Post Presence.. I'm sure Don Nelson would go down to the block with him (he did with Dirk in Dallas)

It's the front office fault in my eyes. Like asking Michelango to paint the Sistine Chappell with a bunch of Crayons. Obviously Don Nelson is one of the GOATS and he does love the wingmen... but to totally ignore the need for Bigmen is just a joke!


Sorry Pawno, but this post is so full of errors I cant even begin to reply.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:26 pm
A new owner is the heart of the matter. Nelson is only part of the problem and a temporary one at that. Not a fan of Nelson's small ball or head games, but who knows basketball better: Nelson? or Cohan? Even with Nelson still here, a strong win oriented owner can bend him to his will and/or fire him. Hopefully, a new owner will see through his bs and fire him straight away...

Let's say Nelson gets fired by Cohan. Then we get a new coach but same old shallow pockets owner. The new coach won't get the team he needs to be successful. We're in the same place. (Adelman, St. Jean, Montgomery)


Balance and variation is the only way to win and is in no way boring!
In order for iso plays and random 3pt chucks to work, you have to have another element to your game: set plays, post ups.. in the paint game. My point is that if you do the same 1-2 things every time you bring the ball down, it's not going to be as successful because it's so predictable. Vary it up and you'll see more success in all areas.

that being said, I'm seeing a lot of good passing and team play in the last few games. That 2-3 pass play in the Boston game (I believe it was Monta to Turiaf under the net, back to Magette coming in the paint, slam dunk.. had me saying, "now THAT's good basketball!!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3pIsA0Q ... re=related

Steph Curry fakin Chris Anderson out of his jock: awesome!
look on Turiaf's face: priceless
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:51 pm
Money Morrow wrote:A new owner is the heart of the matter. Nelson is only part of the problem and a temporary one at that. Not a fan of Nelson's small ball or head games, but who knows basketball better: Nelson? or Cohan? Even with Nelson still here, a strong win oriented owner can bend him to his will and/or fire him. Hopefully, a new owner will see through his bs and fire him straight away...

Let's say Nelson gets fired by Cohan. Then we get a new coach but same old shallow pockets owner. The new coach won't get the team he needs to be successful. We're in the same place. (Adelman, St. Jean, Montgomery)


Balance and variation is the only way to win and is in no way boring!
In order for iso plays and random 3pt chucks to work, you have to have another element to your game: set plays, post ups.. in the paint game. My point is that if you do the same 1-2 things every time you bring the ball down, it's not going to be as successful because it's so predictable. Vary it up and you'll see more success in all areas.

that being said, I'm seeing a lot of good passing and team play in the last few games. That 2-3 pass play in the Boston game (I believe it was Monta to Turiaf under the net, back to Magette coming in the paint, slam dunk.. had me saying, "now THAT's good basketball!!"



Just a beautiful post Pat. You need to have a balance and be able to do almost everything, if only just very good, if you can't do it great. The best teams can slow it down and speed it up, can post up and run and gun. Phoenix has always been able to do both and won big for a good five years straight, though they never won it all. You need a couple of players at least that can post up real well, without being slow lugs that can't run a bit.

Owner needs to go, coach needs to go and a bit of a change in mentality is needed. A few roster changes also are needed
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:13 pm
PAWNO6124FF171 wrote:Nellie Ball gives us the best chance to win.


LMAO............yeah, Nellie Ball does give this fundamentally flawed team a chance to win.............if Nelson decides to make any kind of sense with the fundamentally flawed team we have.

The reason for that being that is that NO OTHER REAL style of playing basketball would be able to work in any way with this fundamentally flawed team............which by the way was built to suit Nellie Ball............great huh?

Way to make a statement which illustrates the short-sighted, "I gargle and love the cool aid" attitude that infects alot of our fans.

Also, laughable that you use the words "win" and "Nellie Ball" in the same sentance.

PAWNO6124FF171 wrote:It's good that you mention the Spurs BIGS, because what you failed to ignore was the fact that Greg Poppavich has arguebly the best Power Forward ever on his roster and Poppavich also earned his stripes under Don Nelson.


Well I did mention the Spurs because they ACQUIRED one of the best PF's of all time by tanking and making the perfect moves, in order for them to be in a position to draft Duncan.............being a lottery team for just ONE season..............then back to playoffs and then titles.

Thats the way to do it, empty the team like they did in 95-96, shelf Robinson and Sean Elliott and tank all the way to drafting Duncan.

Whereas we have this pathetic, cool aid drinking notion that winning 35 games and having a 8-12 lottery pick is actually going to advance our team in any way.

LOL.............on Pop............yeah, I am aware that he "earned his stripes" under Nelson thank you.

But are you aware that Popovich resembles Nelson in NO WAY WHAT-SO-EVER...............he is the absolute Anti-Nelson.

So not sure how much of an influence Nelson was on Popovich, apart from showing him exactly what not to do.

PAWNO6124FF171 wrote:You give the Warriors a True Post Presence.. I'm sure Don Nelson would go down to the block with him (he did with Dirk in Dallas)


Can i change my vote for post of the year?..............cuz this is just hillarious!!!

I mean to even think/imagine that Nelson would use an actual post player to the best of his ability is laughable..............and to then call Dirk A POST PLAYER!!!!............holy sh*t dude.

Last time I checked, Dirk was a 7 foot, 3 point shooting, jumpshooting weak ass p*ssy..............nice job Don, way to nurture that talented 19 year old you drafted and turn him into a REAL big man.
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Seriously, this is exactly what we were talking about in terms of the necessity for a change in attitude, outlook and just general knowledge of what it takes to be a successful basketball team.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:32 pm
PAWNO6124FF171 wrote:Nellie Ball gives us the best chance to win.

It's good that you mention the Spurs BIGS, because what you failed to ignore was the fact that Greg Poppavich has arguebly the best Power Forward ever on his roster and Poppavich also earned his stripes under Don Nelson.

You give the Warriors a True Post Presence.. I'm sure Don Nelson would go down to the block with him (he did with Dirk in Dallas)


lol like he did with Ewing?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:55 pm
Well I wouldn't sacrifice by watching van gundyesque basketball. It takes away from the beauty of the game. But I think the spurs are the best example. At their peak, they played very good defense but their offense was very efficient as well. They didn't just slug it out in hopes of winning 85 to 80. That is what I want. A normal team that plays d and runs an efficient offense. I don't want an ugly thuggish defensive team that wins.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:36 pm
I stopped reading after Essay
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:13 pm
Great post and reply I agree with the majority on this issue. It has come to the point now that if a warrior fan supports Nellie it is equivalent to supporting an evil drug lord leader in a 3rd world country. Sometimes there is wrong/right support and in this case their should be no support for that old turd, not after what he has put warrior fans through the last couple seasons.

With that said basketball for entertainment purposes is called "Harlem Globe Trooters" or "The And One Mixtape Tour", competitive is all about winning. Like poster already mentioned a winning team is not one dimensional, instead they hit on cylinders from defense to offense.

A post game in which the player can command a double team will open up the perimeter for 3 point shots or outside shooting.

These front office is yet to fire Nellie, they are not capable of making any proper decisions then, one blunder after another, not sure where hope stays but it seems far far away for this team.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:04 pm
All i know is Don Nelson is one ALLSTAR PF or C away from being TITLE CONTENDERSHIP!

Brandon Wright looked so promising in the training camp and we been rolling with NBDL scrubs for the first 30 games of the season while ANDRIS BIEDRINS and RONNY TURIAF Healed up!

I just feel there's a lot of NEGATIVITY Chin Scratching going on here n y'all never see the true horizon of a Crystal Ball!!!

Look how exciting the products been with KEY POSITIONS FILLED
Our Centre and Backup Centre are givins us a boost!!! We beat the hottest team in the WEST in PHX and took the CELTS to the wire in a thrilling home win the other night... Almost took over a Road victory in the Champs home but the BEST PLAYER ON THE PLANET took over


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