bada wrote: TMC wrote: bada wrote:
migya wrote:I see him as a top 20 player ever, at the very least. Up until two years ago, his career was better than Kobe's and this is statistical and literal, for anyone who saw them play. Iverson is another superstar that never won a championship and was on relatively bad teams, like Barkley in Philadelphia and Ewing in New York, for the first seven seasons anyway.
Reckon he'll come back, maybe for a team like San Antonio, who might look for that high power to get them over the rest of the contender teams
WHAT? Seriously? AI is not even in the same world as a player to Kobe. And Top 20? Man, scoring points sure gets overated. AI was nowhere close to being a complete player... while I admired his tenacity, I think he is WAY overrated by the masses... this post being further evidence.
Eh... I don't totally agree with any of you. Of course saying AI's career was better than Kobe is nonsensical, but I also don't think he was so detrimental as you imply, Bada. He was a GREAT scorer, once of the best we've seen, and that's one of the keys of bball.
Complete?. Of course not. But he was a wonderful offensive weapon, and never really had much help in his prime and still managed to make it to the finals with a pretty awful team.
OK, but I was responding to a post that put him in the top 20 players that have EVER played the game. And has had a better career than Kobe. Just such rediculous statements.
Not saying he was not a good player. Of course he was. He was a very good scorer. One of the best we have seen? Dont agree with that. I mean the guy shot below 43% from the field for 10 of his 13 years. He was a great VOLUME scorer. He was tenacious going to the basket and was extremely explosive. He also had a quick release and an ability to fade away on his J.
But anyone that shot that poorely of a % and averaged nearly 4 to's game for a 13 year career, can not be considered a Top 20 players of all time... nor in my mind can he be called "one of the greatest scorers we have seen"
Bada, I'll put it down to point of view and how it differs for most people.
Allen Iverson was great from day one and I'll explain and show how:
1.Not only did he arrive in the nba to an awful team that didn't win and was loaded with offensive hogs, he was exected to be the man to carry that team to success.
2.Iverson took an awful 76ers team, that wasn't loaded at all, to the finals, perhaps the most improbable and untalented team to go to the finals in twenty years or more.
3.Iverson is 6 foot in shoes and yet outscored ALL players most seasons in his career.
4.Iverson, though some people see him as just a scorer, was among the best in assists many years in his career. Iverson did get alot of TOs, about three and a half a game, but the ball had to be in his hands almost all the time.
5.Iverson was a very good defender, though he faded in the last four years of his career. His steals average is proof of his defense and he defended many opposing guards well, just was never seen as a great defender, since he was a great scorer.
6.Iverson was durable and resilient, being smacked around since day one, suffering numerous injuries and yet playing through them.
In comparison, Kobe:
1.Arrived to a great team that was championship caliber and from late in his second season, was given all the opportunities to be the megastar he was heralded to be. Playing with Shaq allowed him to be much freer of defensive attention than Iverson, not even close.
2.Won three championships with Shaq, without him he was seen as incapable of taking a team to the finals or a championship again, until he got Gasol, another star, next to him. Kobe did less with what he had than Iverson did.
3.Kobe is 6'6, a very good height for his position and basically never smaller than his direct opponent. He has been the best scorer or among the top few scorers most of his carrer, but really just the last six to eight years, not in the first few years. Iverson was nba ready straight away.
4.Kobe has been decent in assists in his career, but for a player with the ball in his hands as much as he did and with Shaq as his teammate, he really should have had more and really should have had more than Iverson. Kobe got over three TOs a game for his career and he shared the ball with Shaq, Iverson got the defensive attention all the time.
5.Kobe is a very good defender, used to be a great one, but Iverson got more steals and always had quicker hands. Shaq was a very good defender as well for most of his career and that makes it easier for Kobe when he's defending.
6.Kobe is also durable, but hasn't been smacked around nearly a quarter as much as what Iverson has.
As for me saying that Iverson is a top 20 player ever - Look at his career and name me 20 players better than him in nba history. Isiah Thomas, though getting two championships, I don't consider better than Iverson, as close as those two are in comparison. It comes down to Iverson having far less talent around him and that is a huge factor. Name me 20 players better than Iverson