On the earlier racism topic on this website

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:14 pm
I remember a year or two ago or so there was lots of talk about how posters living outside the US didn't quite get why a number of us in the United States were so offended at various racially charged comments.

Apparently, this same topic came up on Australian TV when Harry Connick Jr. left the set of a show after he was offended by a skit The Jackson Jive.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts946

I don't post this to dredge up old drama, but I do find it interesting that this stuff happens even in the global stage of the media and in much smaller communities like our own here at goldenstwarriors.com.[/quote]
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:10 pm
We'll put it down to cultural differences. In comedy, not extreme harsh comedy, but something like what Connick Jr. seemed to have done a few years ago dressing up as a african/american preacher or something, it is acceptable I think. Doing something like making a comedy about blacks that were enslaved, like doing a show about that and trying to make it funny, that's not acceptable and wrong.

Again, cultural and personal differences
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:08 am
WARNING: Bigs essay ahead. :wink:

So what are we actually talking about here? the clip of the show has been removed from that link.

It sounds like it was a bunch of silly white Australians, blacking themselves up to perform a take on the Jackson Five.

Was there anything else/extra? like racist comments/insinuations?

For me, if it is just the fact that they were blacked up so they could achieve the "look" of the Jackson Five, whilst not making any other racial references..............then is it not abit hypersensitive?

I mean sh*t, Im the first to react to someone who I think is leaning on the side of racism and Ill be the first to talk up and verbally rip their balls off (as you know. :wink:)

Funnily enough, the something that came to my mind was the awful movie White Chicks.

The old Wayans brothers get all "whited" up and totally play to the typical white young girl stereotype..............with various other racially motivated slants/slurs to it.

Would that not be the same kind of thing?

Or are we saying that you cant publically "black" up and have abit of fun (if thats all these guys were doing, if there was more, then f*ck em) because of the history of disgraceful mis-treatment of black people?

If so...............then.................for me, its being abit hypersensitve and those who view something like this and instantly react with a racial issue, are being too sensitive.

Will there ever be a time where race ISNT the first thing that comes to mind in these types of situations?............. = "A white guy couldnt possibly play the character of a black guy!"..............to me, that in itself is a little racist, because you are distinguishing a difference that isnt there and one that that person would think they are trying to stick up for but in fact they are pointing out themselves and in effect being a little hypocritical.

Overall, cultural differences..............for me, I think Americans make nearly everything about race, and thats the problem.

Take someone who compares themselves to another, maybe a sports or movie..............you can always spot the mild racist by someone who would never compare themselves to a black person. They may not be outwardly racist, and Im sure they are 100% in their belief that they are not...............but if they go through that thought process and automatically ignore black people because they are black and this person isnt.................there in lies the deeper issue.

The cultural difference for me, is the constant focus and drawing attention to the race of a person..............small example:

Obama's healthcare plan isnt going down well with congress = "Well, people arent listening to him because hes black". End result = race issues.

Over here, we had a black polititian get found to have hired an illegal immigrant to clean her house (she didnt know the woman was an illegal immigrant because she forged papers and documents)...........she was found out, there were some arguments over whether she knew, some disputes in all the papers...................but her skin colour was not mentioned ONCE, never came into play, was and isnt part of the issue.

In America, that story, of a black politician hiring a black illiegal immigrant.................would have been very different, no?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:17 am
To stream line my points =

What would happen if 4 black people "whited" up and performed a skit on ABBA or some all white group?

Would there be any reaction other than laughter? would anyone be offended? would it matter?

So why would it then if some white guys "black" up just to have some fun (again, if thats all it was.......knowing Australians, there was probably more to it)

Hyper sentivity and making an issue of something, that by doing so is pointing out how the person who makes an issue of it couldnt possibly imagine a person of one colour play the character of a person who is another.

This comment to me is mildly racist =

In response Connick said: "We've spent so much time trying to not make black people look like buffoons, that when we see something like that, we take it really to heart ... If I knew that would be part of the show, I probably, I definitely wouldn't have done it."


What?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:25 am
bigstrads wrote:To stream line my points =

What would happen if 4 black people "whited" up and performed a skit on ABBA or some all white group?

Would there be any reaction other than laughter? would anyone be offended? would it matter?

So why would it then if some white guys "black" up just to have some fun (again, if thats all it was.......knowing Australians, there was probably more to it)



What?

Sounds like you're the one with some sort of racial/nationality (Australians) problem. If you think, because of experience or something else, that Australians are somewhat racist, then you are blind, at least partly.

I've met heaps of English guys who are rough as guts and ignorant on many issues, but that doesn't make all English guys idiots.

You're a good guys Bigs, but you also have some sensitivity issues
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:02 am
migya wrote:
bigstrads wrote:To stream line my points =

What would happen if 4 black people "whited" up and performed a skit on ABBA or some all white group?

Would there be any reaction other than laughter? would anyone be offended? would it matter?

So why would it then if some white guys "black" up just to have some fun (again, if thats all it was.......knowing Australians, there was probably more to it)



What?

Sounds like you're the one with some sort of racial/nationality (Australians) problem. If you think, because of experience or something else, that Australians are somewhat racist, then you are blind, at least partly.

I've met heaps of English guys who are rough as guts and ignorant on many issues, but that doesn't make all English guys idiots.

You're a good guys Bigs, but you also have some sensitivity issues


Ohh Miggy Miggy............lets not digress from the issue here.

I was only messing man..........and in a way, threw that in there as test to be honest, to see if someone would over-react to it. :wink:

Did you also realise that I was defending your countrymen? if I was in-fact "sensitive" to whatever your trying to say, wouldnt I just have said "Ohh yeah, those Aussies, blacking up, what a racist bunch of bastards"

So back on topic, I have a couple of other thoughts:

The issue here is the hyper-sensitivity of Americans when it comes to issues of race, and the constant differance to race as an issue when it actually isnt.

The most honest and true thing Harry Connick could have said would have been =

"Hey look, Im a white American, my country is hyper-sensitive about appearing racist because of its awful history of racism..........so I dont want to be at risk of being labelled a racist by them for participating in this excercise"

That is the long and short it as far as Im concerned.

One more example I thought which illustrates my point:

In that movie White Chicks (not that Ive seen, its been on TV lately and theres been promos for it) theres a seen where one of the "White Chicks" gets in a car with the Dad from Everybody Hates Chris.

Now this is a big, strong, football player esque man..........black man...........and he turns on the radio or whatever and some teenage priss song comes on and it turns out its his favourite song.

Now why is this funny? why did people laugh? why did they think this would be a comedic moment?

Because here you have a man of men, a mans man........a black mans man...........and his favourite song is some white schoolgirl anthem!

How hillarious and improbable huh! how possible could a black man, especially one so manly, like a song that little white school girls would listen too!?

There in lies the problem.............its the distinction that there is a difference and that black cant/wouldnt do things that are typically white and the other way around.

The day when simple innoculous things are not looked as possibly being racist..........and the day when someone can be/imitate in a fun setting, a person of another colour and all the white people not worry about whether it could be construed as racist or not............THATS the day when racism will end.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:26 am
bigstrads wrote:
migya wrote:
bigstrads wrote:To stream line my points =

What would happen if 4 black people "whited" up and performed a skit on ABBA or some all white group?

Would there be any reaction other than laughter? would anyone be offended? would it matter?

So why would it then if some white guys "black" up just to have some fun (again, if thats all it was.......knowing Australians, there was probably more to it)



What?

Sounds like you're the one with some sort of racial/nationality (Australians) problem. If you think, because of experience or something else, that Australians are somewhat racist, then you are blind, at least partly.

I've met heaps of English guys who are rough as guts and ignorant on many issues, but that doesn't make all English guys idiots.

You're a good guys Bigs, but you also have some sensitivity issues


Ohh Miggy Miggy............lets not digress from the issue here.

I was only messing man..........and in a way, threw that in there as test to be honest, to see if someone would over-react to it. :wink:

Did you also realise that I was defending your countrymen? if I was in-fact "sensitive" to whatever your trying to say, wouldnt I just have said "Ohh yeah, those Aussies, blacking up, what a racist bunch of bastards"

So back on topic, I have a couple of other thoughts:

The issue here is the hyper-sensitivity of Americans when it comes to issues of race, and the constant differance to race as an issue when it actually isnt.

The most honest and true thing Harry Connick could have said would have been =

"Hey look, Im a white American, my country is hyper-sensitive about appearing racist because of its awful history of racism..........so I dont want to be at risk of being labelled a racist by them for participating in this excercise"

That is the long and short it as far as Im concerned.

One more example I thought which illustrates my point:

In that movie White Chicks (not that Ive seen, its been on TV lately and theres been promos for it) theres a seen where one of the "White Chicks" gets in a car with the Dad from Everybody Hates Chris.

Now this is a big, strong, football player esque man..........black man...........and he turns on the radio or whatever and some teenage priss song comes on and it turns out its his favourite song.

Now why is this funny? why did people laugh? why did they think this would be a comedic moment?

Because here you have a man of men, a mans man........a black mans man...........and his favourite song is some white schoolgirl anthem!

How hillarious and improbable huh! how possible could a black man, especially one so manly, like a song that little white school girls would listen too!?

There in lies the problem.............its the distinction that there is a difference and that black cant/wouldnt do things that are typically white and the other way around.

The day when simple innoculous things are not looked as possibly being racist..........and the day when someone can be/imitate in a fun setting, a person of another colour and all the white people not worry about whether it could be construed as racist or not............THATS the day when racism will end.



I pointed that out because it didn't sound like you were joking and you do go off when these topics go off somewhat, not that you say anything that's attempting to cause hurt to anyone and I generally agree with what you say.


Racism ends when it is not given power and people want to move on, evlove from that.

To be honest, I played basketball with some friends a few weeks ago, the first time I played basketball in a while, and there was four white guys (including me) and two black guys, both from Africa. One of the white guys, a bit of a mouth on him, not much but some, was getting outplayed all the time by one of the black guys and then turned around and said nigga, not so much ****** as nigga. The black guy didn't like much, but didn't get heated up about it, in fact none of us did. He apologised for any hurt it may have cause but the black guy wasn't the slightest upset and none of us were shaken by it. That is a sign that racism, at least to the six of us, really doesn't hold much power and that an attempted use of racism to ridicule really isn't that strong anymore, as it shouldn't be.

I'm Portuguese by decent and birth, though have been here almost all my life in Perth and a few times in my life I've been called pork and cheese, incidently by English guys a couple of times looking for a fight, I think, and it really didn't upset me the slightest, as it is a pretty weak attempt. Calling me dikhed would get more of a reaction out of me.

This will lose power as people become more used to being around people from different backgrounds and living together, as you live in the same area, shop in the same places and even spend some time together
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:24 am
This didn't offend me...

If Harry Cronick JR hadnt been on the Australian TV Show then this would never had been a controversy!!! It's unfortunate that it's been blown out of context (or at least proportion)...

We Can Only blame Rupert Murdoch for This? For providing the sateliette and cable feeds across the Pacific.

Seriously Michael Jackson changed his skin color thru plastic surgery... if the world cant come to grips with the king of pops transformation from Black to White then i think they need to go back and re-read the history books.

It's funny how we can all joke about peoples problems when we are alive, but choose to let sleeping dogs rest when they pass.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:57 am
PAWNO wrote:This didn't offend me...

If Harry Cronick JR hadnt been on the Australian TV Show then this would never had been a controversy!!! It's unfortunate that it's been blown out of context (or at least proportion)...

We Can Only blame Rupert Murdoch for This? For providing the sateliette and cable feeds across the Pacific.

Seriously Michael Jackson changed his skin color thru plastic surgery... if the world cant come to grips with the king of pops transformation from Black to White then i think they need to go back and re-read the history books.

It's funny how we can all joke about peoples problems when we are alive, but choose to let sleeping dogs rest when they pass.


On the Michael Jackson topic, did anybody catch the new South Park this week?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:35 am
migya wrote:We'll put it down to cultural differences.


That's what I was mostly getting at with this post.

And it's not just between nations but communities. I knew these guys (one from Canada and two from Florida) who couldn't help not making jokes aimed at black folks every 5 minutes. In the end I had to cut myself off from these guys because they wouldn't stop when asked. They felt they didn't need to change.

In the end, there are people (including myself) who just don't want to hear it. The general attitude is offensive to some and hilarious to others. It's an individual judgment call that we all have to make for ourselves.

The only reason I even posted was because I found it interesting that an issue we had here on our board was playing itself out in a much larger stage.

And, Mig, I don't think Australians are racist. I've met some tremendously awesome Aussies especially up here in the wine country. Our harvest is the opposite of yours so we have winegrowers that do the US right now and AUS in 6 months. Australia has also been one of the United States most loyal allies for the past century. I believe they've sent troops to just about every war and conflict we've fought in.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:37 am
PAWNO wrote:This didn't offend me...

If Harry Cronick JR hadnt been on the Australian TV Show then this would never had been a controversy!!! It's unfortunate that it's been blown out of context (or at least proportion)...

We Can Only blame Rupert Murdoch for This? For providing the sateliette and cable feeds across the Pacific.

Seriously Michael Jackson changed his skin color thru plastic surgery... if the world cant come to grips with the king of pops transformation from Black to White then i think they need to go back and re-read the history books.

It's funny how we can all joke about peoples problems when we are alive, but choose to let sleeping dogs rest when they pass.


Pawno dude, I'm not sure if you're joking or not about the skin color but didn't Michael Jackson have a skin disease that changed the color of his skin? I don't think he meant, or wanted, to do that.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:07 am
Racial humor is very tricky, especially in this country (US). If it is handled cleverly and respectfully, it can be very funny. Chris Rock/ Richard Pryor (was) is hilarious with this kind of humor. Very few white comedians can pull it off because of the history of race in our country. Although one white comedian I heard said regarding the word "honky" said by his black friend.... "hey man! You can't say that word. Only We can call each other that." I thought that was funny. "honkey please!"

so it really depends on how it is handled. I didn't watch the video (connick thing)... If the humor was meant to degrade or support stereotyping instead of cleverly poking fun at the illogic of stereotyping in general, then I would be offended too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3pIsA0Q ... re=related

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