E-Man wrote:migya wrote:E-Man wrote:migya wrote:E-Man wrote:I don't agree...but that's my opinion. I just don't think you can compare Shaq and Jordan, or Jordan and Hakeem...much less the way you can compare either of those pairs to Kobe and Lebron. If anything, what Penny was ON TRACK for after his first two seasons could be comparable.
Aside from that...we're talking about people who are considered the best to ever play the game. MJ, Kobe, and LBJ can all be considered for that title as of right now...as much as The Dream and Shaq have accomplished, they just wouldnt fall in this category for most people.
We're talking about "the best player at the time". Doesn't matter what positions the other stars were, just the level and the amount of competition and Jordan had a fair bit more than Kobe does and has had.
Shaq, to me, has done far more than Kobe has ever done, plain and simple. Shaq was the main player in the Lakers three peat, Kobe was second main player on that team, a big difference. Shaq may have only gotten one MVP, but every knows he is worth three or four, as he had vast competition himself and was always in the top vote getters for MVP, right from his second season up until some seven years ago. His numbers for his career is better than Kobe's. I believe in rank of alltime best players, Shaq is ahead of Kobe, Olajuwon arguably is also.
Lebron has the ability and already the production to be the best player ever, but he has to do what he's been doing for another six years at least AND get at least three championships, even just with three championships, he'll just been known as the best player on individual talent, not winning, so he has to win six championships like Jordan then
If we are going "Best player (at the time)" then why are we even arguing Kobe vs. MJ??
And like I said before...Yes, MJ played against a lot better talent on a consistent basis because there were more superstars on various teams. But he didn't have that ONE guy that made it difficult to choose whether he was the best or not (like Kobe has LBJ). MJ played better overall NBA talent. Kobe is playing Lebron.
I think you guys are straying from the main arguement here. I am simply arguing that this whole "Who is better" argument won't be settled until at least Kobe and LBJ retire. The only reason why I am defending Kobe's side right now is cuz you guys are handing the title over to MJ way too easily. What I am saying is that, if MJ, Kobe, and LBJ in their primes played against each other, it would be between the 3 of them for best player....I don't think any of them would get the title hands down like you suggest.
In order to evaluate who is better out of Jordan and Kobe, you have to look at their accomplishments and what level of competition they had. Jordan wins hands down, no comparison.
Lebron is awesome, but he has really done no more than Shaq did in his first five/six seasons. That's not an incorrect statement, look at their numbers and what both accomplished. Shaq went to the finals his third season and was top 3 best player his second and third seasons already. Jordan was clearly the best because he was simply above everyone else, in individual talent and desire to win and accomplishing the winning.
You're right that you can't really make a proper evaluation of who is the best ever without both Kobe and Lebron finishing their careers. but with Kobe, he has to accomplish alot more to be considered as goo if not better than Jordan
Desire has nothing to do with who is better. I could be 5' flat, couldn't make a layup to save my life, with all the heart and desire in the world to win, but I still wouldn't be better than Todd Fuller.
I guess really the only problem I have is in those bloded statements. I, personally, don't think you can say that Jordan was CLEARLY the best or HANDS DOWN the best with NO COMPETITION. I just don't.
I meant the best hands down in his era. Jordan definately was, noone denied that, year after year from about 1987, esecially as Magic and Bird regressed