4 Oakland Police Officers and Suspect Shot

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:28 pm
bigstrads wrote:so something else is going on here and it would have been nice to find out what that is and give him the benefit of the doubt we all preaching about.


As far as I'm concerned, there's no benefit of the doubt I can give to somebody that, not just once, but twice, celebrates the death of 4 human beings, Bigs. There's no way to justify that.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:18 pm
Wow, all this happened in a span of nearly less than a day. Officers shot, an unpopular post, and a ban.

First off, my hearts and prayers go out to those four officers' families.

Second, I could not believe what transpired here. That was probably the most insensitive thing I've ever heard come out of someone's mouth here. How could you rejoice in the death of four officers? How could you rejoice in the death of anyone? I would understand if it was Osama Bin Laden or someone else of that stature, but saying justice has been served to those four men is absurd.

I truly believe speak has had extreme experiences with himself or friends against cops which makes him feel that way. I don't believe a person could just hate on cops like that. But at the same time, just because you were treated like sh*t from one cop doesn't mean all cops are the same. There's good cops, there's bad cops. Who knows if any of those four did terrible things to innocent people? All I know is that they died doing a job that they tried their best at keeping innocent people safe.

To sum it all up, if he wanted to say such things, he should of kept it to himself. There are things meant to be said. There are things that are best left unsaid. This was that time to not say something so negative. Plain and simple.



BTW, three are dead. The fourth officer is on life support. I don't want to give false hope, but there is still little light. It's very little, but it is still there nevertheless.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:32 pm
xbay wrote:BTW, three are dead. The fourth officer is on life support. I don't want to give false hope, but there is still little light. It's very little, but it is still there nevertheless.


Sorry to say this but unfortunately there isnt any hope for him, as he is brain dead, and the only reason he isnt actually dead is because they are waiting on organ donation decisions.

Once they make that decision, they will turn him off life support and it will be officially 4 murders.

Just going back to this Speak thing quickly and for the last time.............it is shocking, it is disgusting what he said, and I told him so..............Im just a little sad that a guy who was so key to this board and so loved by many people, was just sent packing in a matter of minutes.

Admittedly over an awful comment, one that should never see the light of day...........but one that is very sensitive and close to home (literally for alot of you) and hence will be prone to emotional reactions from both sides.

Whatever caused Speak, who again from his time here and from my public and private interactions with him is an obviously bright, intelligent, caring, accepting, peace loving young man, to say such a thing must be pretty bad...........and that was the first thing I thought when I read his comment, because Id got to know him a little and didnt think he had that kind of blind hate in him unless it was over something very serious.

Hence my defense, not of what he said as that is inexcusable and should not be tolerated/allowed but my defense of why someone like him would be compelled to say such a thing and then allowance of us to understand that, instead of just being banned within 2 minutes of the first comment and no chance to explain why hes taking such a harsh stance.
Last edited by bigstrads on Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:40 pm
bigstrads wrote:
xbay wrote:BTW, three are dead. The fourth officer is on life support. I don't want to give false hope, but there is still little light. It's very little, but it is still there nevertheless.


Sorry to say this but unfortunately there isnt any hope for him, as he is brain dead, and the only reason he isnt actually dead is because they are waiting on organ donation decisions.


Yeah, I thought so. Very unfortunate. As he gave his life fighting to protect citizens, I hope his organs help other citizens another chance at life.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:45 pm
xbay wrote:
bigstrads wrote:
xbay wrote:BTW, three are dead. The fourth officer is on life support. I don't want to give false hope, but there is still little light. It's very little, but it is still there nevertheless.


Sorry to say this but unfortunately there isnt any hope for him, as he is brain dead, and the only reason he isnt actually dead is because they are waiting on organ donation decisions.


Yeah, I thought so. Very unfortunate. As he gave his life fighting to protect citizens, I hope his organs help other citizens another chance at life.


yeah that would be great. A hero who fought long enough to survive, could possible help more people live on.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:00 pm
What a way to get back into the board bigs! wow, first of all, it is terrible for the families of these 4 men. you know that it is a dangerous job but you just never know what can happen on a traffic stop. Speak may have issues or experiences with police that are far different from ours but to me, (and i normally respect the hell outta speak), he was being pretty immature about the subject. If you feel that way about the cops, as in it being a positive, why share it on the board to that extent? You don't know anything about those men, and probably don't know anything about the man who killed them. Too many unknowns to really have any emotions other than sorrow. Sorrow that a man felt hopeless enough to take lives to save his for a precious few more moments. Sorrow for the men who may have been good men doing their jobs. This is completely different from the BART situation where that was caught on tape and you could see how unjustified the act was. we know nothing about this other than the end result.

As for speak, i hope he comes back at some point. I like the way his mind works and at times the board needs it. But posts like those show some of the immaturity.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:33 pm
He can't come back. He was banned. So unless he e-mails us apologizing and realizing what he said was insensitive, he's not coming back. Because like hobbes said, we're all for freedom of speech, but there comes a time where it doesn't need to be said.

There's freedom of speech, and there's going too far.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:19 am
and Bigs, he DID have time to explain himself (either to me via PM or in a post) AFTER I deleted his original post 10 hours earlier or after my warning. But instead he posted an EVEN more inlamatory post, taunted me a little bit, AND changed his signature picture to a picture of a cop mourning the loss of a friend and co-worker.

There was no apology or explanation given but he DID have that chance. He just chose not to take it.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:34 am
bada wrote:and Bigs, he DID have time to explain himself (either to me via PM or in a post) AFTER I deleted his original post 10 hours earlier or after my warning. But instead he posted an EVEN more inlamatory post, taunted me a little bit, AND changed his signature picture to a picture of a cop mourning the loss of a friend and co-worker.

There was no apology or explanation given but he DID have that chance. He just chose not to take it.


Cool man.

You know Im not arguing why he was banned, in terms of what was said..........its just that it was Speak, and from how Ive got to know him over his time here, it seemed very out of character to be THAT evil.

So I was a little shocked and concerned really but again, I understand why he had to go for that.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:26 am
Didn't catch this thread earlier.

I've said things in the past that have been taken sensitively and that was not my point in saying things that I did. Speak always seemed like a good guy and writing what he wrote in this thread shows that he has had situations with police and I feel bad that he has and only hope that he doesn't in the future, maybe being able to move to another area where things are different, better for him. What was said by him was wrong in the fact that it is not accepted, too outside the boundary. Be nice if he could be allowed back, if he can somehow communicate to hobbes or one of the mods stating that he won't say things like that again, recognising that it is not accepted.

I believe that Speak is not a bad person, certainly didn't start trouble on here, so he was not a problem and so there was no need to throw him out for that. This was just a statement made out of emotions, obviously through unfortunate life experiences and I think I'm not alone in understanding a person who had such experiences and feeling sorry for them and wish much better experiences for their future.

I respect the action taken by hobbes and the mods and I think (hope that I'm right) that we all want the best for each other and want to assist in betterment, rather than just judge harshly.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:22 pm
bigstrads wrote:
bada wrote:and Bigs, he DID have time to explain himself (either to me via PM or in a post) AFTER I deleted his original post 10 hours earlier or after my warning. But instead he posted an EVEN more inlamatory post, taunted me a little bit, AND changed his signature picture to a picture of a cop mourning the loss of a friend and co-worker.

There was no apology or explanation given but he DID have that chance. He just chose not to take it.


Cool man.

You know Im not arguing why he was banned, in terms of what was said..........its just that it was Speak, and from how Ive got to know him over his time here, it seemed very out of character to be THAT evil.

So I was a little shocked and concerned really but again, I understand why he had to go for that.


not that out of character. if you read what he said in the bart shooting thread you'd have known how he feels about the oakland pd
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:54 pm
I just watched the segment on the KTVU 10 o'clock news. Things are going to be really bad. Many communities have little to no sympathy for those four dead officers. They feel more sorry for Lovelle, the suspect. Also, they haven't forgot about the BART incident. If anything is to be worried about, it's the citizens.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:05 pm
While there is a lot to address about poverty, education and overall opportunities in regards to someone like Lovelle, the responsibility ultimately rests on the individual who decides to play that card. So he got a effed up deal in life, that doesn't mean you can kill four people.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:28 pm
Jackattack wrote:While there is a lot to address about poverty, education and overall opportunities in regards to someone like Lovelle, the responsibility ultimately rests on the individual who decides to play that card. So he got a effed up deal in life, that doesn't mean you can kill four people.



True but you know what, that's how nature is and humans are part of nature. You get treated wrongly by a group of people, like police, more than once and/or in an extreme sense where you are violated and abused and you have dislike towards that person or persons who did you wrong and also the group who they are a part of. Police have relatively the same powers and in a particular demographic area, they may abuse those powers. People who are violated in those areas (and those that care about them, like family and friends) have a strong dislike obviously and some get fed up and take action, sometimes extreme action, like killing.

When you are desperate and have had enough of being abused and violated, you either get so scared that you run away to anywhere that you think might be safe (if you have that option that is) or kill yourself or you get very angry and take action. I don't like that people get killed but above all else, justice must reign and by that I mean, things set in balance, like if you abuse someone, you get a consequence. Police have guns and other weapons, they also have the "perception" that all of them are good, in the eyes of most in society, so the police have the weapons and society on their side, basically they have all the power and that can corrupt. Those that get abused get mentally tortured and start having thoughts that they wouldn't have if they were not abused and such things like killing police happen.

I'm not for killing, but things are almost NEVER black and white. If the person or people responsible (I don't know the story other than four police were killed) has had a history of being abused and violated by police (finding that out in itself can be very difficult), they are not that bad in that they had reason to be angry and the actions were incited. If the person or people was just bored and decided to kill police, totally different and they should get big consequence.

Things are not so black and white. Police can have a tough job, very tough, in some areas, but the laws of nature work for them as well, for all of us. If you abuse, things come back around and get you, sooner or later. That's a law of nature for a reason, as it keeps things in justice, be it sometimes seemingly extreme. Things will only be perfect and things like this incident not happen when people are perfect and never do anything wrong. I think that day is still a long way off.

The only way right now for humans is to have great, open and honest communication and next to no hate and bad judgement, as things always come out bad with those thoughts and feelings
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:24 am
Well, I'm not sure if he's been abused in the past by policemen. And if he was, I wouldn't be surprised. Part of the story was he was afraid of going back to jail and he felt he'd never land a job ever again in this economy.
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