GoldenSTWarriors

[bada]

banned for having an unpopular opinion..... well it was fun while it lasted *hats off*

No, I banned you for celebrating the cold blooded murder of 4 police officers of our local community that you know nothing about. The post that I deleted was pictures of champagne bottles being opened in celebration.

We had many PM's asking for a member to be banned for seemingly promoting hitting a woman. Even despite the member trying to explain that is not exactly what he meant.

You are promoting and celebrating murder and making no excuses for doing so. Maybe my colleagues here wont stand by this decision but I could not in good concience let it continue and will gladly step down and away from the board if people think this was unfair.

banned for having an unpopular opinion..... well it was fun while it lasted *hats off*

You are a good poster speak... BUT you just gotta understand that not everyone is bad based on stereotypes. For example, If a certain race commits a crime, we wouldn't want to stereotyple everyone belonging to that race for that crime. Thats wrong and naive. Yes, there are bad cops. But many cops are honorable people and good. And for what we know, we loss 4 members in the Oakland community who had served honorably. You gotta give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe you'll get unbanned someday man. Hope so. keep your head up and understand what we're getting at, and maybe you will join us again soon. Late!

[TMC]

banned for having an unpopular opinion..... well it was fun while it lasted *hats off*

No, I banned you for celebrating the cold blooded murder of 4 police officers of our local community that you know nothing about. The post that I deleted was pictures of champagne bottles being opened in celebration.

We had many PM's asking for a member to be banned for seemingly promoting hitting a woman. Even despite the member trying to explain that is not exactly what he meant.

You are promoting and celebrating murder and making no excuses for doing so. Maybe my colleagues here wont stand by this decision but I could not in good concience let it continue and will gladly step down and away from the board if people think this was unfair.

Beat me to it, Bada. I was going to ban him right away. Thanks for taking care.

I guess not everybody will like the reaction Bada and me just had, but celebrating the random killing of four cops? Come on, like if we had any other chance than banishment.

[metalface]

Excuse me to butt into this convo but I just had to say this... While I understand where speak is coming from, I really do not think that it is fair for people to see a badge and immediately think that they are bad/evil or whatever it is that people see when they see policemen. Police are individual persons before they are cops and they should be judged as individuals just like anyone else wearing an uniform.

[bigstrads]

banned for having an unpopular opinion..... well it was fun while it lasted *hats off*

No, I banned you for celebrating the cold blooded murder of 4 police officers of our local community that you know nothing about. The post that I deleted was pictures of champagne bottles being opened in celebration.

We had many PM's asking for a member to be banned for seemingly promoting hitting a woman. Even despite the member trying to explain that is not exactly what he meant.

You are promoting and celebrating murder and making no excuses for doing so. Maybe my colleagues here wont stand by this decision but I could not in good concience let it continue and will gladly step down and away from the board if people think this was unfair.

Beat me to it, Bada. I was going to ban him right away. Thanks for taking care.

I guess not everybody will like the reaction Bada and me just had, but celebrating the random killing of four cops? Come on, like if we had any other chance than banishment.

Jesus guys.

Could we not just have had a discussion about this? to get the REAL reason Speak FEELS like this?

I was actually typing quite a long post in response to him, both condeming his comments BUT trying to understand why such a bright young guy feels this way..............but dont even have a chance to find out now do we.

If I know anything about Speak its that he is an incredibly intelligent and accepting young man.............I mean f*ck, he was the one that Sf was directing his racist abuse at, and not only was Sf giving over a week before he was banned for his "unpopular opinion" but Speak was actually someone who said he shouldNT be banned!!!

How do we know that Speak hasnt had friends or even family hurt by police? how do we know Speak doesnt know someone thats been un-lawfully killed by police?..............maybe he doesnt want to talk about or admit it because its a rather difficult thing to talk about no?

Best case scenario, as a young black man in Oakland, Im sure Speak has been and will be subject to amounts of harrassment and un-fair abuse from police, and god forbid worse.

I understand the stance on deleting the posts because of the possibility of relatives seeing these comments from Speak.

But for f*cks sake............the reason this place is dying a slow death is because people like Speak dont post here anymore, and Im sorry but banning him is too much..............delete the posts, give him a warning, have a discussion and know what your dealing with before banning him.

[hobbes]

I believe in freedom of speech, but hate like that will not be tolerated here. He deserves to be banned, I don't care who it is or how many posts they have. That may be the worst thing ever posted here, and that's saying a lot.

[TMC]

I believe in freedom of speech, but hate like that will not be tolerated here. He deserves to be banned, I don't care who it is or how many posts they have. That may be the worst thing ever posted here, and that's saying a lot.

Yep. Totally agree.


And I'm gonna add something personal here. My father is a cop, so I'm pretty sensitive when something like this happens.

I can understand frustration and anger when something like the BART murder happens. I even sympathise with it. That's why I didn't get into any kind of serious discussion regarding Speak's posts in that thread. He had the right to be pissed. I didn't agree with him, but I certainly want's going to make a big deal out of an outburst.

But that was a different situation. We're dealing here with a member that celebrates having 4 cops killed. Tell me how you can defend that, Bigs. And keep in mind we gave him a warning and he came back to post something like this:

you guys shouldnt feel that bad... jus think of how lavish their funerals will be... all tha government officials will be there... the mayor and county clerks, the police will be there in full force firing shots into the air, the streets will be blocked off and the flags will be held at half staff... they will be remembered.... wish i could say the same about half the upstanding citizens they murder without repercussion....

Tell that to their families...

[bada]

bigs, I respect how you feel but I DID give him a chance. I first deleted his original post and then posted a warning telling him EXACLY what I woudl do if he did it again. If he had any questions, he could PM me.

But he posted again, this time saying he was "happy" those "pigs" were killed.

So I DID delete the post...

I DID give him a warning...

and he DEFIED that warning. That equates to "SEE YA!!!"

[bigstrads]

I believe in freedom of speech, but hate like that will not be tolerated here. He deserves to be banned, I don't care who it is or how many posts they have. That may be the worst thing ever posted here, and that's saying a lot.

Yep. Totally agree.


And I'm gonna add something personal here. My father is a cop, so I'm pretty sensitive when something like this happens.

I can understand frustration and anger when something like the BART murder happens. I even sympathise with it. That's why I didn't get into any kind of serious discussion regarding Speak's posts in that thread. He had the right to be pissed. I didn't agree with him, but I certainly want's going to make a big deal out of an outburst.

But that was a different situation. We're dealing here with a member that celebrates having 4 cops killed.Tell me how you can defend that, Bigs. And keep in mind we gave him a warning and he came back to post something like this:

F*cks sake!!! read what I wrote again please.

Where was I defending that??? I was the first person to tell him how awful his comments were..............Im just saying is an instant ban warranted when there could be so much more involved here, that none of us know anything about.

Sf was given a week of no action or repremand and then numerous chances to justify his disgraceful comments...........why could we not just have an adult discussion with Speak about why he feels the need to spew such hate.

We are asking Speak to give the good police officers the benefit of the doubt and not jump to a conclusion about them.............and then ban him instantly after makes comments, when we know nothing about him and why he might make such a comment.

[hobbes]

As the admin here, I stand behind him being banned. I am sure there are life experiences he has had to make him feel the way he does, and I am sorry he has had that happen if that's the case, but to celebrate the cold-blooded murder of 4 people, who he has no connection with, no matter the circumstances, is intolerable. Period. He got a warning, he continued making remarks that were completely out of line, so he's gone. If anyone has an issue with it they can contact me directly.

[bigstrads]

bigs, I respect how you feel but I DID give him a chance. I first deleted his original post and then posted a warning telling him EXACLY what I woudl do if he did it again. If he had any questions, he could PM me.

But he posted again, this time saying he was "happy" those "pigs" were killed.

So I DID delete the post...

I DID give him a warning...

and he DEFIED that warning. That equates to "SEE YA!!!"

Im just saying, the guy is obviously quite emotional about this situation (why would that be do you think? maybe theres an underlying cause to an obviously intelligent young man saying such awful things)............and warning him in a thread, then banning for a comment made 2 minutes later is not really giving him a chance to put his position across.

And before you say it, I know there is no position he could have taken to defend the celebration of 4 murdered humans.

However, my post that would have been there had I not noticed youd banned him was asking why he would feel the need to make such horrible comments and how he could justify being against racial profilling when he is doing that exact thing towards these police men.

Im thinking that this MIGHT have gotten some sense out of him, instead of these reactionary/outlandish/wrong comments and would have lead to some kind of understanding of why he said these things.

[E-Man]

my friends dad is an oakland police officer and just as soon as he found out what happened he jet over to the station...if he had been one of the police officers killed it would definitely be a sad scene knowing that such a stand up guy who takes his job seriously had to go due to one persons lack of good judgement.

as far as the situation at hand, i get what youre saying bigs, but at the same time whether it goes deeper with speak or not (and i really respected the dude until i read his comments), he is still celebrating the murder of these 4 cops. maybe he and his family and community have had some bad experiences with cops that got him angry, but that is no reason to be happy that someone got murdered. what if the tables had been turned and a cop had killed a suspect? should the cops be celebrating that the guy died? no. it goes both ways and celebrating a murder isn't something id like to take part in nor is it something i want to see in a community such as this board where we at least try to get along through our love for the warriors. i wasnt celebrating for the death of sadam (would rather he was locked up with high security for life), and im not gonna celebrate the death of a cop or any citizen no matter if they deserve harm or not. IMO no one deserves to be killed.

As the admin here, I stand behind him being banned. I am sure there are life experiences he has had to make him feel the way he does, and I am sorry he has had that happen if that's the case, but to celebrate the cold-blooded murder of 4 people, who he has no connection with, no matter the circumstances, is intolerable. Period. He got a warning, he continued making remarks that were completely out of line, so he's gone. If anyone has an issue with it they can contact me directly.

your the boss hobbes, and a ban is prolly what he needs... lets just hope it makes Speak a better person because of it. Maybe this instance (its just a message board, but who knows) will make him see a different perspective for the future (or at least be PC about it). So maybe a banning IS what he needs. Like bigs and most of us, I too enjoyed reading speak's stuff. He's a bright dude, and wish nothing but luck for him.

Question is though, Is there a way where we can ban him for a certain amount of time? Suspension for a few months instead of forever? Maybe a way he can come back after a couple months is if he writes up an apologizes AND maybe shares with us his notions of saying why he says it. So instead of giving him the boot and that's it, we can help make him comprehend why what he said is wrong. I think if we can try to educate him. Point is, i think that some people are more willing to learn than others, or at least find some understanding. From my experience, a little individual help or knowledge can go a long way in making someone a better person. Sadly, many people are programmed in their head to think a certain way.

EDIT: I'm not defending anything Speak said. just to make that clear. I think that maybe after a few months, and certain tasks on his part, he can get a second chance. If not, then ok then. I'm not gonna post any more on the topic.

[TMC]

Where was I defending that???

Well, first, sorry for the way that post came through. I didn't want to imply that you were defending Speak's standpoint. What I really wanted to say was more like "how can you defend giving him another chance at all?".



Now that that point is clear, I stand behind anything Hobbes and Bada have said. Actually, I think we shouldn't give a warning in circumstances like this one.

I'm sure he's had terrible experiences with the police. So much hate has to come from somewhere. But that still doesn't mean we can retain a member that celebrate the random killing of 4 cops. The only option was to ban him, and to not let him come back.

[bigstrads]

my friends dad is an oakland police officer and just as soon as he found out what happened he jet over to the station...if he had been one of the police officers killed it would definitely be a sad scene knowing that such a stand up guy who takes his job seriously had to go due to one persons lack of good judgement.

as far as the situation at hand, i get what youre saying bigs, but at the same time whether it goes deeper with speak or not (and i really respected the dude until i read his comments), he is still celebrating the murder of these 4 cops. maybe he and his family and community have had some bad experiences with cops that got him angry, but that is no reason to be happy that someone got murdered. what if the tables had been turned and a cop had killed a suspect? should the cops be celebrating that the guy died? no. it goes both ways and celebrating a murder isn't something id like to take part in nor is it something i want to see in a community such as this board where we at least try to get along through our love for the warriors. i wasnt celebrating for the death of sadam (would rather he was locked up with high security for life), and im not gonna celebrate the death of a cop or any citizen no matter if they deserve harm or not. IMO no one deserves to be killed.

Of course.................Speaks posts were awful, and should never be said, condoned or defended.

But delete the POSTS, then find out why he is saying them, give him a chance to explain why he feels he has to say such things............not him defend himself saying them but explain WHY he would say them...........then understand the situation and make a decision then.

Speak has NO history of this kind of thing, and has largely been a mediator and promoter of understanding and acceptance (see my Sf example) on this board..............so something else is going on here and it would have been nice to find out what that is and give him the benefit of the doubt we all preaching about.